No, I am not that sensitive to language, even though I am a feminist. The only word I have a huge issue with is the N word, I find it extremely offensive and will make a big stink over someone using it in front of me (fought a long war over this with the contracters at my job, and finally won!).
I don’t much care if men call women ‘females’, ‘ladies’, ‘bitches’, ‘chicks’, ‘broads’ etc. I mean, I would form an opinion about the kind of men who would call women ‘bitches’ or ‘broads’, but I wouldn’t complain or be very bothered about it. I dislike most people, I don’t have very high expectations.
Being called a cunt makes me mad, but I will call someone else a cunt right back…
I could pretty much care less whether someone called me ‘miss’, ‘ma’am’, ‘lady’, or ‘woman’.
It’s all about delivery. Someone could be calling me by my first name and still manage to inject condescension and loathing.
“Ma’am” is polite, there’s nothing inherently offensive about it. “Hysterical” is just a word, freaking out about the etymology is pointless attention-seeking behavior.
Now that I’m in Atlanta, I’ve grown used to “Ma’am”. In NY it was “Miss”, no matter what age for strangers. No big deal.
What I hate is "Miss first name instead of just my name. My children’s friends all called me by my first name - I had to insist. “Miss jali” is just annoying.
None of the other words bother me. I’ve been a bitch and a cunt and a broad and a chick and I survived. I usually refer to myself as an old broad or an old chick.
I had a uterectomy a few years ago. My hysteria is still active.
Do you understand why we do that, though? It’s to specifically avoid mentioning a person’s gender. There’s no color, religion, or race in the military. The culture teaches you to treat all people as if they were clones. In fact, at least in Basic training, if we had to describe someone as Black or White, the term was “dark-green soldier” or “light-green soldier”. Calling a soldier a woman or lady would have drawn a :dubious: from the listener, as they’d wonder why I felt I had to specify the gender so clearly.
On a different note, let’s say I’m riding the bus and need to ask you to move out of my way.
“Excuse me, ma’am” makes you feel old.
“Excuse me, miss” makes you feel young/inferior to me.
“Excuse me, lady” sounds dismissive.
“Excuse me, girl” sounds outright offensive.
“Excuse me, woman” would get me slapped.
With a minefield like that, I’m sticking with “ma’am”. It’s what the military taught me to call civilians and female officers, so that’s what I’ll do. I’d rather you feel old than make it seem like I think I’m better/superior to you. “Ma’am” is the opposite of “sir” so get used to it. If you’re still offended by this, then I’ve done all I can. It’s in your court now.
It bothers me that there’s no equivalent of the word “guy” for females. (And “doll” doesn’t count!) “Guy” is casual, non-threatening, and can be used for any adult male. “Chick” doesn’t quite have the same context, and it can be offensive to some. Many of my female friends will refer to each other as “guys,” as if the word transcended gender identity. (As in, “Hey, guys, what’s up?”) I was wondering what would happen if, say, a male and a female met in a park, exchanged numbers, and gave each other a call - how would they identitfy themselves? The male can say “It’s Soandso, that guy from the park,” and it sounds fine. But what about the female? “It’s Soandso, that chick from the park”? That doesn’t feel right. I’ve inserted woman, lady, girl, person into that sentence…none of them feel right. Women need an equivalent to “guy.”
I’ve noticed some northern women not liking ma’am. I’m southern, so I say both ma’am and sir to folks. I wouldn’t say ma’am condescendingly; I only say it in a respectful manner, and I’ve never been rejoindered for it. Hell, my mom taught me this stuff. She’s a woman, as far as I know.
True, I think that’s why lots of us refer to each other as guys. I dunno man, I’m pretty easy going and so are the people surrounding me. I don’t know anyone who has buzzwords like the ones discussed in this thread. Discussion of such things is usually dismissed as nitpicky, PC bullshit.
OTOH, I don’t run into rude people on a regular basis. We’re casual here in northern Idaho but we all seem to mind our manners fairly well.
The word “female” is not offensive, and when used in a military or clinical/official/etc. type sense is not offensive. But when men use it to refer to any random woman in casual conversation it raises eyebrows, like they are talking abut dogs or something not on the level of a real human (i.e. a guy.) Like I said, those who use it in that context would *never *refer to a bunch of guys as “males.”
I must say I don’t really care how people refer to me and I’m not really concerned how *they’d *like to be referred to, either. I don’t intentionally offend people (though I will not hesitate to use the word “cunt” if it’s deserved)so if you’re going to bristle over something as trivial as “ma’am” you might need to develop some thicker skin.
The only time I don’t like the term “female” is when it’s used during testimony on cheesy court tv shows and is usually used in conjunction with the term “dealing with”. Nobody dates women; they deal with females. WTF?
And that’s the funny thing for me: I despise the word “ma’am.” I grew up with a grandmother who was raised in Ohio, and “ma’am” was considered an insult to her. So of course, I picked up on that. And now I live in the South, and it’s used all the time here.
Another thing: children down here are taught to say “Ms” or “Mr” followed by an adult’s first name. To me, that is disrespectful: I was taught to always use and adult’s last name, not their first. I still call my mother-in-law Mrs. (last name). When the friends of my children call me “Ms (first name)”, I do correct them: or I will introduce myself as Mrs (last name).
AGREE! Dammit, how did gal end up sounding so weird? It could have been perfect. I think this thread, and any in the past about being referred to as Miss, Ms. or Mrs., helps illustrate how loaded all of these feminine terms can be in a way masculine (i.e. default) ones aren’t. In your example, so much can be read into the term that hypothetical person would use. Does she see herself as young or old, mature or not, virtuous?
A for ‘guys’ being used to refer to a group of women, I’ve definitely done it myself but have tried to curb the habit. Both the hypothetical man and woman in your scenario might refer to groups of women as ‘guys’ regularly, but can you imagine if she called herself ‘the guy from the park’? Or how about, ‘Hey, did you see those guys breastfeeding by the slides?’ Or ‘My pregnant wife’s dilated cervix was an amazing example of mankind’s strength.’ (Okay, that one’s just an awkward sentence, but you see what I’m getting at.)
I think this is the disconnect; I’ve come across guys who will call nearly all women “female”, but a man is still “man”, not male. “There were 3 men and 2 females at the bar last night” instead of "there were 3 males and 2 females – " or "there were 3 men and 2 women – ".
The word hysterical doesn’t bother me unless the speaker is using it to imply a specifically female trait. “Darling, will you stop being so hysterical and try to think logically for a minute? Honestly, women get so emotional at times.” That type of thing.
An acquaintance of mine would call me “girl” sometimes, which I found really aggravating. As in, “Hey, girl, how’s it going?” Very R&B. Gad, I wanted to smack him sometimes.
At my high school, the boys were the Indians and the girls were the Squaws. All around offensiveness, there.
I really hate being called “Miss.” It feels really patronizing to me.
The “B” and “C” words are out Do not use them in my presence.
I’m not keen on people using “male” or “female” unless it’s necssary and germaine to the topic. Saying “female actor Helen Hunt” is ridiculous and redundant. What gender do people think she is? “Female politican Hilary Clinton” is so well known nobody is going to think “male.”
Saying “NJ male Governor-elect Chris Christie” is okay, as “Chris” could be female.
Now see, you shouldn’t oughta be doing that. You live in the South now, and those children were likely raised here. They’re doing what they’ve been taught was polite. When you move somewhere, you should adapt to the local culture, rather than trying to impose your own.
