My understanding is that originally, *both *males and females had a prefix on “man”, which was just a generic human. Then they evolved differently from there. Basically, what Wikipedia has:
So, both “wife” and “woman” come from “wyf/wifman”, but it just meant “female human”.
Regardless of the origins, though, at this point, I think both “woman” and “man” are pretty neutral. And I wouldn’t be particularly offended by any of the other words mentioned here, just as themselves, although the mindset of the speaker definitely matters.
Something like this:
“Joe said he couldn’t make it; he’s got the flu.”
“That big pussy!”
…wouldn’t bother me at all (although I suppose “baby” would work just as well).
But this:
“Joe said he couldn’t make it; he’s got the flu.”
“Nah, it’s just that his pussy’s hurting. It must be his time of the month.”
…would piss me off.
Some of them, like “gal” grate on my ear, but if I know the speaker is just searching for the elusive counterpart to “guy”, then fine. And yes, when “female” is used as a noun (when the speaker wouldn’t also say “male”), then that’s usually indicative of creepiness.
Bottom line for me, it’s not the words but how they’re used.
No, it’s basically “woman human being”. In Old English “wif” meant both “woman” and “wife”, similar to “Frau” in modern German. In modern English “wife” as a standalone word means a married woman, but “wife” meaning simply “woman” survives in a few compound words like “midwife” and “alewife”.
In Old English a male human being would not normally have been refered to as simply a “man”, but either a “wer” or a “waepman/waepnedman” (literally “weapon [using] human being”). “Wer” survives in modern English in the word “werewolf”. (I guess a female werewolf would be a “wifwolf”!) Interestingly, this Old English Dictionary online gives “waepnedwifestre” as meaning “hermaphrodite”.
My mother, a Yankee schoolteacher who taught in Richmond, VA for years hated it when her kids used that word. Not admonishing you, of course, just noting the difference in culture.
You know, ‘hysterical’ is beginning to bother me more and more, especially on the Dope. I’ve also noticed ‘crying’ is a verb of choice when it comes to threads about assault, sexism, racism, etc. Women don’t accuse. They get hysterical and cry out in the street, perhaps because their panties are perpetually in a knot.
I hate being called ma’am or madam, both of which I got addressed with a LOT over the summer in India. HATE IT.
What’s kind of funny is that Indians refer to women as ma’am in the third person. Like “I talked to ma’am yesterday” or “have you seen ma’am?” In this case it would obviously have to refer to a single woman who’s of much higher respect than anyone else, like your boss or professor.
My students in Bulgaria called me “gospozho”, which is the Bulgarian equivalent of “ma’am”. I wasn’t a fan at first, but I got used to it, I guess. They technically should have called me “gospozhitsa”, because I’m unmarried, but “gospozho” is sort of generic for female teachers. What really annoyed me was when random people in my village then called me gospozho because they knew I was a teacher but they didn’t know my name.
I LOVE being called ma’am! Have since the first time someone called me that! And I’m a Northerner! To me, ma’am implies a married woman (and that implies someone is getting laid), and I can find no fault with someone thinking I was at least able to attract a man once! Even though I am long past the married stage of my life, I still prefer ma’am…it implies a little respect being given me that has nothing to do with age (and what exactly is so bad about getting older?)
That being said, I always preferred that my children address adults in the proper way…Mr. & Mrs Lastname…and had a real problem with a family in the neighborhood where the kids called the parents by their first names. But after living down South for a few years, I grew to like being called Miss Kittenblue by the children I was closest to. I was Mrs. Lastname to most children, but those kids that I had closer relations with (my children’s playmates that I also babysat, my best friend’s kids) were allowed a little more familiarity…sort of like being their aunt, but not really. And it was really more a Miz than a Miss…little bit of a drawl makes it sound that much sweeter. We still refer to some old friends, when the kids talk about them, as Miz Vickie and Mr. Steve…it differentiates them from children with the same names, too.
Now the C-word that truly bothers me (though the C- and b- words we’ve been talking about are high on my list) is…wait for it…chairperson. I hate that word beyond all reason. If you can’t see clear to call me the chairman, you may call me the chair of the committee…but if you slap a stupid “person” on there, I will let you know my displeasure.
Being referred to as a female has always, for me, had that official detachment of the military or the police…way too proper and stiff for normal conversation, or trashy when used by younger men.
I had an ex who argued with me in celebration of cunt, I thought it sounded obscene, but she embraced the word and almost held it sacred, she convinced me eventually and I became a revelator of the cunt. Oh, the spiel she would give me about the etymology, ownership, and sacredness of the cunt… the ins and outs. She loved cunt, I loved cunt. I still don’t understand why feminists don’t embrace it like she did, she was the biggest feminist I knew, she just didn’t go about constructing walls around everything.
As is common, Oak echoes my thoughts on this matter, no doubt due to being from the same region. I’d add that a woman significantly younger than me–say in her 20s–will probably get called Miss rather than ma’am.
What drives me bonkers about that is that usually the person calling their opponents hysterical is usually the main one acting that way. You know, abusing the caps lock, stringing exclamation and question marks together to emphasize the smallest of points, using enlarged font, and flinging desperate ad hominems around.
Still chuckling over the unintended irony of calling someone hysterical in a thread about sexism and then calling them sexist. Like, if you think about it too long, your head explodes.
When I was growing up I was surrounded by this BS kind of thinking and it had a huge impact on me. I tried to avoid things that were traditionally masculine, like watching sporting events or going hunting or whatnot. I’m 36 and it was only a year or two ago that I felt comfortable calling myself a man. I use to use guy, or male, or whatever, but you know what? I’m a man and there’s nothing wrong with it.
Only word I hate is ma’am and only in certain situations. Its fine on the phone since you are obviously not making an age judgment. If you have a strong southern accent then I assume you call everyone ma’am - although in the right situation I might politely ask. (laugh and say smilingly "oh no I hope my skin isnt looking to ma’am today! and usually they laugh and say they call everyone ma’am) But otherwise I assume it means I look older. If you call everyone ma’am including 14 year olds then not offensive. If you save it thinking you are being polite by letting a woman know she looks over 20/over 30/older than you I can’t see how that could ever be polite. If you do use it in relation to age would you mind letting me know why? Truly curious, not being critical.
elle.anthony, we prefer that old threads not be bumped pointlessly. You have now bumped four threads on the same subject, which I have closed. Do not bump any more threads on this subject. If you have something to say, start a new thread.