See I think that women should be the arbiters as to whether or not catcalls are appropriate. Funny that you don’t.
I agree that women should decide for themselves whether or not catcalls are appropriate, and I wouldn’t have any objection if women-at-large could decide the question for all of society. Unfortunately, the logistics do not allow us to remove men’s opinions from the picture because it is the men who initiate the catcall. So I don’t think it’s helpful to ignore them when we talk about society-at-large. To do so is to assume, erroneously I believe, that it has never been socially acceptable to catcall or wolf-whistle. I believe the fact is that it was for a time socially acceptable, though it probably shouldn’t have been, and too many people think it still is.
~Max
It has been discussed elsewhere in this thread, at length, that catcallers are rarely expecting to proceed to actually having sex. I’m not going to go through all of that again; you can read the thread.
That doesn’t mean wolf whistles aren’t sexual.
And when I wrote of assuming that a catcaller is a pedophile, that does not go so far as to assume they expecteed to actually have sex with the child. I only meant that they reduced the child to an object of sexual desire, in their mind; an adult who feels sexual desire towards a child is a pedophile. As such this last remark comes across as non-sequitur.
~Max
Yup.
Because she was female, not because she was adult. Or even, despite the conclusion she came to, necessarily particularly desirable to them.
Now I’ve really lost you. We were talking Dark_Sponge’s girl, right? When she was 13 years old?
I know that you say the catcaller was sexually objectifying the girl, and I will admit the possibility, but the whole point of this back-and-forth was about the possibility that he was not sexually objectifying the girl.
~Max
I am aware that you are claiming that. I think that claim is nonsensical.
Are you under the impression that it’s only possible to sexually objectify somebody if the objectifier actually wants to have sex with them?
If my sons had wolf whistled at a thirteen year old girl when they were thirteen, they would have gotten a lecture. If they had done it in their late teens they might have gotten slapped upside the head.
I am not.
~Max
Then what in god’s name was he doing?
Complementing her on how pretty she looked.
~Max
a 13 yr old. Seriously?
Don’t you think thirteen year old girls can look pretty?
~Max
- I’m not a pedophile.
- If a girl/woman is above 18 yrs of age and I think that they’re attractive, I’ll say nothing because they should be able to go about their business without being hassled by every guy out there.
By whistling at her, which indicates specifically sexual appeal?
No, pretty and (sexually) attractive are not equivalent terms. As I have stated previously in this discussion, I do not think it was appropriate to offer the complement.
~Max
I argued that whistling did not necessarily indicate sexual appeal.
~Max
Even so, it’s still not appropriate to compliment someone on how pretty she looks, or anything else for that matter. Remember, you probably think it’s okay because you’re a good guy and all you’re doing is complimenting her. But for her, you’re probably one out of a several guys, none of whom she knows, who is harassing her. She has no clue if you’ll persist, or follow, or what. And if you’re like me, you’re probably almost a foot taller than she is, and more than twice her weight.
On occasion I have actually been complimented by a woman and guess what, she never would have been a threat to me so I can enjoy it. Sadly it doesn’t work so well the other way.
Admitted.
~Max
Oh, I see. You’re using your own idiosyncratic ideas of what words (and other communicative signs) mean again.
Yes, that’s what a whistle means in that context. You can argue otherwise; but your private theory doesn’t change the meaning.