I don’t understand the point of this exercise. I would say it is possible for a woman to wolf-whistle at a thirteen year-old boy without sexually objectifying the boy in her own mind. For example, she might be using the wolf-whistle to get his attention, for comical purpose, etcetera.
It is possible, I suppose, that the woman might intend for the wolf-whistle to come across as “I think you are a handsome young man” without any sexual connotation. That could happen without the woman sexually objectifying the boy in her own mind. I’m imagining some woman taking her grandchild out to church in his Sunday clothes, “How do I look, grandma?” “[she pauses, puts hands on hips, looks him over, then wolf-whistles and says:] You are a dapper young man, now go grab your sister”.
In my humble opinion, that is theoretically possible, but not remotely plausible.
I’m having trouble thinking of a plausible scenario where a man might wolf-whistle my hypothetical six year old son on the street, because I don’t think it would be realistic for a man to complement a six year old boy on the street as handsome or sexy in the presence of his father. Perhaps a very effeminate man. I don’t know.
Without more context - if the man is a complete stranger - he would register as a potential threat on account of his deviate behavior. It would be creepy.
I’ve made an interesting concession and I encourage you to use it as a wedge.
If the man and my son are around the same age, or if the man is younger, it probably wouldn’t come across as a potential threat. In that case it would come across as a weird, ‘kids being kids’ thing. The only reason I think it is a potential threat is because I do not expect men to tell or indicate that they find younger men handsome, beautiful, or sexy. In certain contexts it is fine, but not in the context of strangers meeting in the streets, and especially not directing the complement at the child in the presence of his father without some sort of cue from the father.
I mean, if a stranger comes up, takes a knee, and says directly to my kid, “what an adorable outfit!”/“aren’t you a handsome young man”/“you look very pretty today, miss”, as the parent I am thinking who are you and why are you so close to my kid? Proper procedure would be at least introducing themselves to me first with a courtesy, “hello, is this your son?”
I wholly agree with the flipside of this. There are people who are not especially beautiful, or even pretty, but still people you feel attracted to sexually, and so “attractive” is exactly the word I’d use for them.
I thought the OP subject was: WOMEN experiencing catcalls. Not: MEN discussing what might go on in MEN’S minds that would excuse their behavior. I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, that somehow a discussion about women’s experiences has veered into a man excusing men’s intrinsically inexcusable objectifying humiliating sexual behaviors using theoretical, circuitious and frankly bogus arguments that have no relevance to the topic.
I suppose I should have never responded to amarinth’s question, which was directed at Dark_Sponge anyways. That way we wouldn’t have drawn out debate as to why a catcall might be creepy, or what is or is not pedophelia, or why a complement might be creepy, or why a catcall or complement might be a threat. These are all, arguably, tangents. I could have gone one with my life never putting any thought into any of these subjects, which I otherwise have no occasion to consider. Most importantly, the topic would be truer to its title.
Perhaps I should never have even opened this topic, seeing as I am not a woman. Nevermind that the original poster appears to be a man, or that he strayed from that limited title question by soliciting male responses from the get-go.
In all seriousness, Dinsdale’s original post also asked men if they ever honked or catcalled at women. I think you are being a little unreasonable if you are really shocked that the discussion veered into the reasons behind or excuses of men making catcalls.
The alternative is to expect men to just admit that they did something considered by many to be offensive in many contexts, and then not have a discussion as to why.
Actually, this is what I, as a woman, expect. Not to admit to being offensive in many contexts but to listen, accept the education, learn and behave into the future accordingly.
Otherwise you are expecting me to respect you first and discuss as to why you shouldn’t continue to offend. I don’t have to keep fending off your justifications and rationalizations nor accede to your self-perceived privilege.
– I’ve been trying to think of something to say to this other than yelling while waving my hands ‘Privilege! Privilege! Everybody come look at this example!’. But right at the moment nothing else is coming to mind.
Max, keep in mind that in order for communication to happen, you have to have both parties agree on the connotation of the words or behavior. You can intend for “she’s hot” to mean she is running a fever, but if Chris hears you and assumes that you are sexualizing their six year old daughter, then you haven’t been successful in communicating. You can intend for a wolf whistle to mean “that individual is aesthetically beautiful” but if the person on the other end believes you mean “I want to jump your bones” then what you have communicated is “I want to jump your bones.” Since we are talking about catcalls and strangers, you aren’t going to have a chance to explain that your wolf whistle was not so objectifying and debasing, but instead meant as a compliment - you’d have the chance to explain yourself to your friend Chris and make sure that the kids fever was addressed - so with friends, ambiguity in conversation is part of life and we continually clarify and hone what we intend. In the 21st century, its rare that a woman is going to take catcalls in anything but a sexual way, so you are most likely communicating “I’d like to jump your bones” - regardless of intent. Which is why…just don’t. Unless you also intend to communicate “I really don’t care if you think I’m an asshole.”