Cicciolina? That’s the Italian chick? Is it true that she started a program where prisoners in Italian jails get prostitutes?
APB9999:
Well, since she was basically a figurehead, it isn’t that hard. Note that Maggie Thatcher gets the credit/blame for the Falklands, not QE II.
The move to shift power away from the British Monarch, well advanced at the time of George III, was pretty well complete by the reign of William IV. Vicky may have inspired Disraeli, but she never set policy.
Tom~
What the hell, here’s one more: In the late seventh century a Visigothic princess named Brunhilde served as regent for three generations of merovingians kings, all of whom died young. She was definitly warlike, at one point was reported to go into battle with the infant who she represented strapped to her chest.
I get the impression that your friend is saying that “more warlike” = “bad leadership”. I think this is a serious fallacy. History is hardest on rulers who should have fought external wars and didn’t or couldn’t War is the perogitive of strong leaders; weak leaders don’t have the support they need to expand or, in the worst cases, to even defend themselves. They usually spend thier carrers fighting civil wars as thier underlings, senseing a power vaccum, seek to take advantage of the oppurtunity. The Poles, for instance, were so busy fighting amoung themselves in the early modern peoriod that they couldn’t prevent two women and a man (Maria Therese, Cathrine the Great, and Fredrick of Prussia) from divving the country up between them.
If it is hard to remember female rulers that were not involved in wars, it is because they were genrally weak and ineffectual in general and, as in the case of weak male rulers, history has, by and large, overlooked them.
He wasn’t so much saying that as he was saying that female leaders had a tendency to go out and drum up a war all by themselves. I’m starting to think (oh, heck, I already thought) that this is just more of his usual bs.
I’m not exactly a history genius, but I think of all of these women, the only one who really started a war was Thatcher, in the Falklands. Golda Meir was involved in a war, but it was defensive (Yom Kippur War, 1973). Not to mention that her handling of the war was so criticized that she ultimately had to step down as PM. So much for women’s warlike tendencies.
Did your friend give any examples, Cessandra?
~Kyla
“You couldn’t fool your mother on the foolingest day of your life if you had an electrified fooling machine.”
Thatcher–what an idiot!
She gets into a war for some usless rocks like the Falklands; then , she won’t use a little diplomacy with the Red Chinese, so they don’t renew the lease on Hong Kong! Hong Kong was (& is) the banking & commercial center of all Asia! And after she loses Hong Kong, she is such a blasted racist that she wouldn’t let the Hong Kongers (allegedly subjects of the Queen) into Great Britain.
Who was further into senility: Reagan or Thatcher? Must be Thatcher, 'cause Reagan didn’t lose anything, not even sleep.
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Well, probably the bottom of the barrel is
Queen Ranavalona of Madagascar (based on details in the George MacDonald Fraser book, Flashman’s Lady). Read it too long ago to remember the details, but the charming lady in question managed to reduce the population of her country by a significant fraction. (This may not count as war though, or maybe just civil war.)
What counts as “starting a war” with you folks anyway. If the side “A” invades side “B”'s territory, don’t you think side “A” started the war? The utility of the Falklands isn’t really relevant, I’m just trying to figure out how anyone could possibly think the British started the Falklands war.
Did you know that the first female Congressman (Congressperson, whetever…) was the only person in either house of Congress to vote againts declaring war on Japan after the bombing of Pearl Harbor? I’d say that failing to respond to a blatant, unprovoked attack on your country’s territory is a pretty negligent and cowardly thing for a lawmaker to do. So did the voting public, because she was ousted in the next election. Female leaders have their share of cruel and imcompetent leaders, just like us guys do.
“I had a feeling that in Hell there would be mushrooms.” -The Secret of Monkey Island
Well, they attacked Argentina, not the other wat around, yes?
~Kyla
“You couldn’t fool your mother on the foolingest day of your life if you had an electrified fooling machine.”
Unless, Kyla, you consider that 99% of the inhabitants are English speaking immigrants from Britain–which also claims sovereignty–so that the Argentine invasion was an attack on British soil.
(Aside from sinking the Argentinian cruiser, the Brits did not attack any part of what they recognize as Argentina. From the British perspective, they simply retook their own land back.)
Tom~
Bugger perspective - the Brits simply retook what had previously been taken from them with force. The (very small) British force present at the islands offered some resistance, but of course had to surrender - this was an armed conflict from day one, and Argentina was clearly the aggressor here.
Would it have been more enlightened leadership if Mrs. Thatcher had decided to accept the fait accompli and give up the islands ? Hardly so.
Of course, you can argue that the islands shouldn’t be part of Britain at all, but disputes like that should be settled at a conference table - yaw, yaw is better than war,war, as another Brit said.
So IMHO, you can dislike Mrs. Thatcher all you like, but that still doesn’t make the Falklands War her fault.
Kyla,
I am no fan of Mrs Thatcher, but I really must correct your deeply flawed account of the Falklands War.
The Falklands War was started by General Galtieri of Argentina when he sent Argentine troops to invade the Falkland Islands which were, and still are, British sovereign territory.
The arrival of Argentine soldiers on the island of South Georgia at the end of March 1982 was followed by a full-blown invasion at the beginning of April. There was a small detachment of Royal Marines on the islands who were quickly overwhelmed and the Governor surrendered the same day. The Task Force didn’t actually leave Britain for a couple of days after that.
No. Nobody attacked Argentina. The fighting was confined to the Falkland Islands and the surrounding area of the South Atlantic. As I recall, the first military action after the invasion was an attack by the Argentine Navy on the British task Force.
Imagine this: There is a military coup in Russia. After two or three months the new military junta decides to flex its muscles and invade the Aleutian Islands. Russian troops land, overpower such US troops as are stationed there (if any) and claim it as Russian territory. What would the US Government’s response be?
(a) “Oh, well. The Aleutian Islands are of little use to us anyway and they are much nearer to Russia than the US mainland. Guess the residents will have to start learning Russian.”; or
(b) Send the Marines.
If you answered (a), you don’t win the car.
If Mrst Thatcher is to be criticised for anything it is that she was initially not aggressive enough in the South Atlantic. The invasion followed a period of scaling-down of British forces stationed in the Falklands which many have argued tipped the balance, from Galtieri’s point of view, in favour of the invasion. The Secretary of State for Defence at the time, Lord Carrington, resigned over this issue.
Tom~,
Good point, although they’re not immigrants, but a native population of English speakers descended from British immigrants since the early- or mid-19th Century. To call them “immigrants” would be a bit like calling all Americans who are not Native Americans “immigrants”.
Was the Falklands war a bad thing? Yes.
Could Mrs T. have avoided it? Possibly.
Did she start it? Certainly not.
Should we give the Islands over to Argentina? Not without the consent of the resident population.
Diceman:
Jeanette Rankin, if my memory serves me, was the only member of Congress to vote against the declarations of war for both WW2 and WWI. She was an avowed pacifist.
I certainly wouldn’t have voted the same way if I were in her shoes, but I hardly think you could call her stance “cowardly.” I would think just the opposite. Talk about standing up for your principles.
Note to self: No more spouting off on things you aren’t really sure of.
Sorry all. Won’t do it again.
~Kyla
“You couldn’t fool your mother on the foolingest day of your life if you had an electrified fooling machine.”