Two female friends of mine each have expressed interested in sexual (though not emotional) interaction with other women. A woman I know at work is happily married, but is sure to check out attractive members of both sexes. And the “Spit or Swallow” thread in IMHO has several female posters referring to themselves as “mostly heterosexual.”
On the other hand, except for several openly gay males I know, no guy ever admits to giving bi- or homosexuality a thought. (Although once when I was really drunk I said I’d let John Goodman do me, but that’s a different thread altogether.) It’s not even discussed.
After hearing many instances of female friends mention an interest in bi- or homo-sexuality, I’ve been wondering what the cause is. Are women naturally more likely to be curious in lesbianism? I’m guessing that it’s one of three things… One, for some reason, women are just naturally more curious than men. Two, society (i.e., porn, movies in general, even this board at times) has glorified (or reduced, depending on who you ask) lebianism to the ultimate male erotica. Therefore, impressionable girls seeking guys will do what it takes to get their attention. Three, (I’m sure this is part of it) guys are unwilling to admit they have bi-curiosity (if they can even admit it to themselves), therefore making the ratio appear lopsided. This would be because male homosexuality is portrayed at the opposite end of the spectrum as lesbianism, disgusting, wrong, blah blah blah.
Of corse, it could just be because I live in San Francisco and read these boards a lot.
Does this phenomenon ring a bell with any Dopers? Ladies and gentlemen, have you experimented with homosexuality? Wanted to? Is this a common topic of conversation among women? Among men? Or are you women just toying with our horny little minds?
I think sexual experimentation is just more societally acceptable for women than for men. I suspect (and hopefully someone will show up with some numbers to help me out) that men are just as likely as women to have bisexual leanings–we’re just more repressed/scared about it.
I am a male, and I have experimented sexually, with both females and males, although I consider myself also to be “mostly heterosexual”.
I find the thoughts of two women together highly arousing, also however, I find the thoughts of two men together arousing, and of course a man and a woman, or any other combination.
I enjoy having sex with both males and females, but could never spend all my time with a man, but would consider devoting my life to a woman.
I think this whole phenomenon was summed up in a Seinfeld episode.
paraphrased from memory - “women’s bodies are a work of art, however, men’s bodies are more like utility vehicle good for getting around in but not much to look at…kinda like a jeep”
Which is, of course, a culturally conditioned phenomenon. The ancient Greeks believed quite the opposite. Men’s bodies were works of art; women’s bodies were meant for bearing children.
I love how people say “experimented” as if they were working with chemicals.
Anyhow, I think that pretty much there isn’t such a thing as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It’s like a law of percentages. If 95% of the people you are attracted to are of the opposite sex, you’re hetero and vice versa.
I am male, I am married, but I have had sexual experiences with men and am not opposed to the idea. However I am far more attracted to women than I am to men.
I think it’s all pretty silly that you must define your sexual attraction.
I’m CONSTANTLY given the “ewwwww” face from my girlfriends when I say that I think men’s bodies are GORGEOUS. My god, they’re breathtaking. I love men and their gorgeous, chiseled, athletic, hard bodies. YUMSKY.
I have seen poll results that indicate that more women than men self-identify as bisexual. However, no one is sure why this is. There could be a lot of reasons, some of them contradictory. For instance, societal pressure to be straight (and get married, and have kids) might affect women more than men, leading women who might otherwise identify as homosexual to engage in some heterosexual relationships. Or maybe such pressures affect women less than men, allowing women who are primarily heterosexual the freedom to engage in some homosexual relationships.
I think it’s because men are more easily satisfied. uh… That didn’t come out right. Guys needs do seem to be a lot simpler. I mean uh… that it’s related to the reason why women fake orgasm. If a woman is not getting satisfied by the men in her life, it would make sense for her to consider other women as sexual partners who might know more about getting her off. That’s it. Yeah. That didn’t sound too bad.
On the subject of guys needs being simpler, I’m thinking that a guy can easily maintain his focus on the act at hand and the mental attitudes it takes to reach climax. Women often need to be brought gradually to this state of mind and then care needs to be taken not to distract them from it. If this becomes too much work, it can detract from the male experience. A certain amount can actually enhance the male experience. The male can certainly enjoy the female who works to keep him in the right frame of mind. Unquestionably. But it’s not necessary for climax as it seems to be with some women.
Is this stuff right? Or am I revealing my sexism? or both? Anyway, nothing I said goes for ALL men, or ALL women.
Another factor is in how men react. They are delighted to see two women getting it on. But the taboo concerning men touching each other extends to seeing two men engaging in sexual contact.
I think it has nothing to do with the relative complexity of men vs. women. I think it has to do with the fact that homosexuality is more threatening to people’s idea of masculinity than it is to people’s idea of femininity. A man’s strength and assertiveness, his manlyness, is connected in people’s minds with his sexual prowess. A man who does not want to have sex with women is perceived as weak. I don’t think women’s desire for the opposite sex is wrapped up in what it means to be a woman as much as it is for men. For the most part, women are more free to explore their same-sex desires because it does not mean they are less of a woman.
Also, it may have to do with the societal notion that women are silly creatures who don’t know what they want. If they have sex with other women, that just means that they haven’t found the right man to settle down with.
Which once again ties into my theory of why people still think homosexuality is a choice…
If nature runs on a bell curve, the vast majority of people out there are bisexual; however, we still only have a small percentage of people self-identifying as homosexual and/or bisexual. Ergo, for people who find themselves with some same-sex attraction, they voluntarily suppress those feelings and act only on their opposite-sex attraction, as society dictates, and they see it as a choice. In fact, their sexual orientation is not a choice, but rather their sexual behavior is, but they erroneously see it as choosing their orientation. This is why I believe a surprising number of people still believe (or are willing to believe) that sexual orientation is a choice.
Well, Esprix, if sexual behavior is a choice, and “the vast majority of the people out there are bisexual” and are only expressing one side of their sexuality, it would seem to follow that the vast majority of gay men could become straight in their sexual behavior if they chose to do so.
I, for one, don’t believe it. As one who swings from only one side of the plate, I don’t think I could talk myself into “experimenting”. In this I agree with virtually every reasonable person I have ever talked to, who agree that sexual orientation is not a matter of willpower or moral effort.
I am not aware of any person or group who condemns homosex as immoral who condemns celibate gays. Indeed, it is the explicit teaching of all the differing traditions of the Christian church (at least) that those who choose to refrain from any activity because they believe it immoral, are to be supported, not condemned.
You cannot really choose whether or not to have a violent temper. You can, however, choose whether or not to be abusive. Same with many other acquired or inborn tendencies.
1 - As several people have mentioned homosexuality and bisexuality is much more socially accepted between women than between men. A woman that is 90% attracted to men and 10% attracted to women might decide to have some sexual affairs with women with relatively little trouble. On the other hand, a man who is 90% attracted to women and 10% attracted to men might decide not to act on his attraction to men because of the higher social consequences.
2 - While not an absolute by any means, men place a greater emphasis on physical attraction and women place a greater emphasis on emotional attraction in forming relationships. Physical qualities are obviously much more gender related than emotional ones. So a woman might be more likely to fall in love with another woman despite being otherwise heterosexual than a man would with another man.
3 - Society as a whole portrays women as sex objects to a much higher degree. While the majority of this is aimed at men, it is so prevalent that a certain percentage of it overflows onto women.
For about five years, I worked closely with a lesbian and knew her SO very well. In fact, I am pretty sure that I was picked as their “donor”, but when I didn’t go for the bait another male was chosen. The one that I worked with was very butch and at times I had to struggle to keep up with her. For a long while, we never mentioned the subject, but as time went on we loosened up. There was no doubt that she was born that way and thru her I met many gays that were like her. However, her SO was different. In her case, I believe it was a case of who would give her what she needed (and you can read into that anything you wish). She was the one that had the baby and it was her third child: the first two were with her ex-husband. She disappeared years ago, but I would not be surprised to find out that she is married to some man that is providing for her these days.
I believe that most homosexuals have no choice and that asking them to refrain from their actions is ludicrous. However, in my mind it would be letting the SO off too easy by just saying she was expressing her bi-sexual tendencies
Of course they could. I didn’t say anything about enjoying it. You’d be amazed what people can convince themselves to do. It would be even easier for those who are to greater or lesser degrees bisexual, as some opposite-sex attraction would exist for them that they could latch onto.
A lot of people who think that sexual orientation is a choice aren’t always reasonable people.
Fred Phelps, just to name the most drastic example. And there are as many ex-gay ministries/converstion therapy/“reparative” therapy groups out there that seek to change orientation as there are those that concentrate on changing behavior.
several months ago that seemed to make sense. Sorry, I haven’t got the link or even an idea who it was. (Apologies for not giving due credit.)
Anyway, their theory was that women have to change their lifestyle a lot less than men if they want to experiment with same-sex sex. Seeing two women kissing/hugging is not at all uncommon, seeing men do it is odd, at least in my circles.
Anyway, it boiled down to just being easier and less threatening for two women to give it a try.
That’s another societal/cultural thing, though. As andygirl said recently in a thread:
I have to claim societal influence for a large reason men won’t experiment as much as women. Try this: Go to a frat bar in any college town. Take two women. Pay them each $100 to kiss each other. Women blush and giggle, kiss, men go crazy, you are a hero. Now do the same thing with two men. Bleed profusely and die.
What’s the difference? And that’s just kissing, right? We kiss our parents, our twice-removed geek cousin and our pets. We give and receive the kiss of peace, we kiss the ground, we kiss ass. What’s in a kiss? Loads if you ask a big, brawny he-man. However, I’m allowed to (and do) kiss my friends upon greeting, upon leaving and if I’m just in that mood. Odd, ain’t it?
<shrug> As a heterosexual who has slept with the same sex, I don’t see the big deal. I seem to notice that women are less opposed to being around beings that remind them of themselves. However, straight men seem to be so utterly scared of the idea that they like big, long hair, long nails, fake boobs and makeup. As utterly unlike themselves as they can get. Don’t even THINK about trying to get them to hop into bed with someone that has the same equipment as themselves.
So, basically what I’m saying is, gay people are just narcissistic.
