Anyone have any knowledge/opinion/references on how to “best” cut timber into cross-sections? “Best” is defined below…
Here’s the situation: the town is repaving/widening the road in front of our house, and have just cut two fairly large trees (Chinese elm, I think) on the property down. We now have a bunch of logs lying around, ranging from 1-5 feet long, and up to 2 feet in diameter. The trees were pretty funky, having been trimmed in odd ways through the years, and the (visible) grain patterns might make for some interesting woodworking.
So, we have these logs. My saw selection is limited: I have a chainsaw, a circular saw, and a jigsaw, but no table saw (much less a band saw). In other words, the chainsaw is my only friend at this point. What I’m looking for is advice on how to get the “best” – that is, most interesting – looking pieces, and potentially ideas on what I can do with them (e.g., clock faces; the pieces aren’t really big enough to use for something like a table top or stools).
I did cut off a few cross-sections that show the rings and such, but it would be nice to read something about getting the best results before I do more, as I have no experience on which to rely. And it’s OK if it turns out that it’s all a great big failed experiment…it’s all a learning experience, which is the big payoff for me.
I’ve seen gizmos that turn a chainsaw into a log-ripper. You set the depth, and feed the logs in, and get boards out. You can then edge-join to make tables, etc.
Remember, the planks shouldn’t be worked until they are dry.
Don’t bother, IMHO. I tried to rip an eight inch oak log once. It took me an hour to make one cut, after which I gave up. Maybe it would have been easier if I had a bigger chainsaw with a ripping blade.
That’s exactly it. If you don’t have a ripping blade, forget it. In this case, I might actually use the circular saw, though it’ll be tough going. The other alternative is to split the logs with an axe or a splitting maul. Elm might be a little tough, though.
Alternative two is to find somebody who can cut it up for you – either a small local mill or somebody with a decent-sized bandsaw.
Hmmm. To be clear, I don’t want to make planks (or 2x4s, or anything like that). Rather, I’m thinking much more along the lines of “rounds” (that is, the log cross-sections; what’s the proper terminology?). However, since these logs are “funky” – that is, they’re most definitely not straight cylinders (like lodgepole pine) – I’m not sure how to best bring out that “funkiness” in cutting them up.
Thanks for mentioning drying, beowulff. I came across a woodworker’s forum that had a few threads on that. For the moment, I’m just gonna stack the rounds (with spacers) in a cool place and air-dry. I certainly don’t have access to a wood kiln/dryer, so that’s about all I can do. I did see some advice on applying some substances across the faces, sprinkling water on them, and even wrapping them in newpaper to hinder the splitting/checking.
We’ll see how it goes…as I said, the most important part to me is the educational experience.
Well, if I’m understanding you correctly, you’re just going to take slices off the cylinder formed by the log? The problem with that is you end up with endgrain showing which is non-optimal for most woodworking. If you want to make anything except novelty clockfaces or rustic tables, you pretty much need long-grain. So cutting or splitting are your two choices. Without proper tools, cutting is laborious at best. Splitting is easier, if your wood isn’t resistant to it (which elm might be – I forget)
If you know of a wood turner, they might possibly be interested in a few bowl blanks from your elm, particularly if the wood has interesting color or grain.
I bought a spectacular salad bowl made from a tree that had been cut down for road widening in SLC, Utah. So, I’d second Finagle’s suggestion, and see if a local wood turner might want the big pieces as-is.
Yes, that was my thought. If there’s another type of cut I could make with the chainsaw, I’d be open to it, but there are numerous reasons it’s not advisable.
That was the thought. It does seem that uses are pretty limited…might it be possible to do a butcher block type thing? I’ve been ogling the oak “project wood” when I get to Home Depot with that in mind, but can’t justify the cost for what’ll probably end up a failed experiment.
Yeah, given my limited tools, funds, contacts, and knowledge, I can’t see getting very much out of the logs. I figured I could at least use this as an excuse towards increasing my knowledge, potentially getting something nice out of it also.
The logs were destined to be firewood for the most part, but the wood looks nice enough that I thought I might try to do something else with some of it.
I have seen chairs cut out of whole logs. Both my first hubby and my current hubby have a common meme with that. Kind of like this but with the legs also cut out at the same time.
Trouble is, it’s close to impossible to dry a cross-section of a tree without very significant checking and cracking - the physics of wood and the way it responds to a decrease in moisture pretty well guarantee this.
If the wood is of decent quality, you might want to find some local guy with a portable sawmill to cut it into boards for you. The suggestion of contacting a local woodturner is also a good one. (I’m a woodturner, though I’ve never used chinese elm. American elm is interesting, though a bit tough to work with.)
A similar opportunity happened to me about thirty years ago, some friends had to have an elm taken down in their yard. They thought it was a Chinese elm, as did I, Americans are rare anymore, around here.
Good sharp standard saw chain works well for what you have in mind (rounds), but unless you intend to do this on a regular basis, tooling up for ripping is likely more hassle than hiring a portable bandmill for a once n’ done.
The bad news, elm doesn’t split fer shit. The good news, it doesn’t split much in seasoning, assuming standard care through the process. Not to say you won’t get checks, but far less than other species IME.
The wood I have has lots of chatoyance and in places is hard to tell end grain from long.It also DRINKS finish to an astounding degree.
One of my hobbies is turning logs into boards and sawdust. I sawed a little this past weekend until the saw broke again. I seldom seem to find time to build anything from the lumber anymore and I spend more time sawing stuff for free for friends and relatives.
There are not many useful things you can build from cross-sectioned slices of a log. You have to treat it carefully to prevent it from splitting when it dries because of the way wood “un-stresses” when it dries. The only way I know to reduce the chance of splitting is to coat the cross-section with a sealer as soon as you saw it. Even then, it’s not guaranteed. The cross-section will not have very much tensile strength and shouldn’t be used where safety is a concern. You mentioned clock faces; that would be a pretty good use for cross-sections.
You can rip boards using a chain saw. It’s best done with a powerful saw and a chain especially filed for ripping. I done it free-hand and had respectable results. There are several guides that will help you keep the saw straight. Google “alaskan sawmill” if you want more information. However, this is time-consuming and it’s hard on you and the saw.
Your best bet, though, is find someone with a small sawmill. Here is a web site were you can find a lot of information and possibly a listing of mill owners in your area. This site has some cool pictures, too. A sawyer usually charges by the board foot of lumber produced and it can vary from 0.25 - 0.50 per board foot.
There are a few things to consider:
You have to transport the logs and the lumber. There are likely some sawyers in your area with portable bandsaw mills, but they won’t be inclined to move the mill to your place unless you can guarantee several hundred dollars worth of sawing. Your location says WA and I would guess you wouldn’t have to go far to find a small sawmill.
If the trees grew near a house or barn, a sawyer will likely want to charge you for any blades that are damaged by metal embedded in the logs. Every sawyer has one or two tales about finding wierd stuff embedded in tree trunks. Figure on $20-$25 for any blades that are damaged.
The resulting lumber wil have to be dried before you can use it. I air dry lumber and the rule of thumb is one year per inch of thickness. If you kiln dry, you’re less likely to lose lumber to insects and you’ll be able to use the lumber sooner. But, kiln drying costs money.
I’m not personally familar with any of the elm species, but I somehow remember that it’s not very stable for furniture.
– More than wanted to know, I’m sure. But, it’s not often my hobby comes up as a subject around here.[ol]
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Not at all. I greatly appreciate all the responses – I’m originally an east-coast suburbanite, so this is all fairly new to me. (Aside: it really amazes me how much common knowledge is attributable to where one grew up; the more places I live, the more I find large swaths that are actually pretty uncommon.)
I don’t think anyone has really addressed this aspect of my question: how do you determine what cuts will give the most interesting grain patterns on the wood face? That is, for instance as gigi brings up, to get the “best” view of a burl? For example:[ul]
[li]A few of these logs have a cluster of knots and burls on one side; does one generally just cut through the largest one at its largest diameter? Is there some other consideration?[/li][li]Others logs have a crotch, some with more than two or three legs, in addition to the knots/burls. For the most part, from what I can tell, the rings are centered pretty well. Would cutting just below the fork look nicest? Would it [help | hurt | have no effect] on the wood’s strength and/or cracking/checking during drying?[/ul][/li]I don’t really see a ripping attachment for the chainsaw being desirable – right now, it’s not worth the expense, and in the future (when we own a house), I’d rather get a more appropriate saw. A friend of mine (ex-logger, tree surgeon, forest management guy) is going to be getting a portable mill in the near future; he’s splitting the cost with someone else, as they’re both going to be putting up barns and will end up breaking even on the cost when everything is factored in. Although I don’t really see milling the logs I have as worthwhile, I do plan on getting involved as an extra pair of hands – it’ll be educational, to say the least.
Finally, as far as wood-turners go, what might they be looking for to make it worthwhile? While some of these logs are “funky”, many are just (mostly) straight cylinders. They’re all pretty dark grained from the center out, with lighter grain taking up the outer inch or two. Personally, I think it’d make for relatively uninteresting bowls, but then my ignorance is why I started the thread in the first place.
I don’t know much about burls and turning bowls from them. But, crotches are almost always interesting (boy, did that sound dirty). They’re hard to work with (and the metaphor continues). I’ve had pretty good luck ripping walnut crotches with a chain saw. You just have to be very patient. I have four beautiful walnut crotch slabs hidden away awaiting the day when I have time to work with them. I have some more walnut forks sitting next to the mill, waiting for me to saw on the bandsaw mill. I’ll have to make a jig to hold them in place because they’re short. The problem with sawing forks on the bandsaw mill is that the throat is only 18-20" wide and you want to saw them across the widest part to get the best figure.
Imagine a “Y” standing straight up. You want to stand to one side of the “Y” and split it into two "Y"s half as thick. Then you want to make another cut on each half parallel to the first cut and whatever thickness you want. This is pretty easy to do with a chain saw, just be patient and careful.
You will then have two book-matched crotch-figured slabs. The grain will be running in many directions and it will be difficult to plane without the grain tearing out. I’m planning to take these slabs to a cabinet shop and have them run them through a drum sander rather than try to plane them.
I have to get back to work. Feel free to ask questions.
Good advice from Tully Mars on dealing with crotches.
For turning bowls, you need a chunk of wood not much longer than it is wide, so (provided you have a sizeable chainsaw) you can do a ripping cut with the blade parallel to the direction of the tree’s growth. Done that way, a standard chainsaw chain cuts beautifully.
" How do you determine what cuts will give the most interesting grain patterns on the wood face? "
Tully Mars’ advice on crotches is as good as it gets, with diminishing figure as the cuts move away from the pith. Lots of waste between juvenile wood, lack of figure and stress checking.
I saw burls into veneers and haven’t noticed figure improvements with one direction of sawing vs. another.
The best figure in the bole is the butt, and I prefer plainsawing to reveal it. Quartering seems to diminish curl.
Elm was the preferred wood for slab seat chairmakers, where the legs and back are morticed in because of its split resistance.
Their called Medallions, Timber Slices, Log Slices, there are a lot of different terminologies for what they are called. But one thing is for certain, you’ve got to dry them out thoroughly or put some kind of sealant on them or they will crack quickly when the moisture leaves them. I’d recommend picking up some linseed oil and once you’ve cut some of the medallions place them in a linseed oil soak for 24-72 hours. Then once the oil is soaked up in the rings you won’t have to worry about cracking.
I’ve made cutting boards, kitty condos, name plates and the like with wood medallions. They are very fun to work with, just make sure you season them correctly, or you could make something that will have a big crack in it eventually.
If the logs were straight-grained (so, yes, this whole post is completely irrelevant), it would be possible to split them into usable timber with wedges and a hammer - just start a split in the log and get it to propagate right along the length, following the grain, by tapping in a whole series of wedges and driving them a little bit at a time, in sequence.
I did this with a log of false Acacia some years ago. You have to split it into planks that are quite a bit thicker than you want to finish up with, then stack it to dry, after which it will inevitably have cupped or warped a little - so you have to plane your usable plank out of the distorted piece.
False Acacia is a lovely wood, by the way - heavy like oak, but finer grained and with a rich yellow-green colour with dark chocolate brown marbling.
I would say American locust is similar to your false Acacia.It lacks the medullary rays of oaks and is easy splitting in unbranched sections. Very good rot resistance; WAS the fencepost wood of choice in days prior to CCA or ACQ treatment.
I note locust honey is quite like Acacia in many respects, does not crystalise.
Do you know the botanical name for false Acacia?
