There is absolutely a history of sexual abusers engaging in chaacter assassination against their accusers, and Woody Allen may absolutely be a part of this history.
And yet, there is also absolutely a history of people coaching children into believing they were sexually abused, and there’s very strong evidence to show that children (and even adults) who undergo such coaching can “remember” things that never actually happened, remembering them very sincerely. And Dylan may be part of that history.
How do you–does anyone–feel confident saying which injustice is happening here?
Well, one happens much more often than the other. There’s a pretty high confidence rate on sexual abuse accusations by children.
The thing that makes this issue complicated is that we’re dealing with a famous person, where character assassination becomes more common. But it’s still more likely, all else being the same, that Dylan is telling the truth. The only thing that gives me pause is the claim that doctors found no evidence of abuse. But I’m not sure you necessarily always find that sort of thing. I’d need a percentage rate for that to make a confident prediction.
Ms Farrow seems to be asking us, the general public, to condemn Mr Allen outright, to shun him and his work. On her side she has accusations and very little else. Justin Bailey, above, suggests that there is strong counter evidence. Your comment, BigT, seems based on probabilities. Accusations and probabilities aren’t enough for me to conclude that Mr Allen is guilty of charges as serious and life-wrecking as child molestation.
If anyone is aware of any actual evidence, other than accusations and probabilities, I would be interested to hear of it. If there were such, I would have expected to see a case in the hands of the police. Otherwise, I think I owe Mr Allen the benefit of the doubt. I have liked his work (although the last picture stank on ice) but that does not influence me as much as that he is a major public figure and that the accusations come from a household that has (or thinks it has) other reasons for hating him.
Roddy
I wish both of them would go away. Farrow had an amoral affair with a married man, is a freaking baby hoarder and is on the record as supporting Polanski who really should fucking be behind bars for rape. Allen apparently has no boundaries when it comes to women and married someone when he was arguably her step-father at least in some sense. I find the accusations against him at least possibly believable in many ways.
Fuck both of them. And fuck Kristof who should leave this kind of thing for the National Enquirer not the Times.
There’s often no evidence in these types of cases other than victim testimony, so it becomes he said/she said. If we write it off as character assassination, coaching, or whatnot, that means anyone can get away with doing pretty much anything they want, especially if they are rich and famous. It’s high time we started listening to the victims of sexual abuse and violence, and stopped handwaving away their cries of distress.
So why bother to hold a trial when all we need is an accusation?
The law requires proof. Yes, victim testimony should carry weight, but it’s much better to have corroborating evidence as well. I’ve yet to see anything to indicate what, exactly, he supposedly did to his adopted daugher (and arguably the details are not something that should be public anyway) but certain types of abuse leave physical evidence and, absent that evidence you should question the accusation. Other types of abuse leave less evidence and are more troublesome to prove.
Coaching of young children has also been known to occur in such cases and also need to be ruled out. Young children have a desire to please and may say what they think adults want to hear without really understanding the potential consequences. Pointing that out is not invalidating victim testimony, it’s part of separating legitimate accusations from words influenced by adults with an ulterior agenda.
All the evidence does come from the police. This isn’t something that just became public today. Mia Farrow (and Dylan) accused Woody of sexual assault and molestation decades ago. And the police didn’t just shrug their shoulders because of Woody’s awesome directorial skills, they investigated. They physically examined Dylan and found no evidence of sexual assault. They had her see a therapist for months and the therapist submitted a sworn statement saying she either made it up or was coached. The tape that Mia Farrow included a series of edits and witnesses testified that it was made over a period of days, with Farrow coaching Dylan the entire time. Two nannies submitted sworn statements saying that Woody was never alone with any of the kids during the time. And msot damning of all, the oldest child, Moses, has said (in recent years) that Mia Farrow tried to “brainwash” him into believing the accusations.
Good thing we’re not talking about the Justice system, then. These crimes can’t be prosecuted at this point, anyway. I’m talking about court of public opinion, which I’m sorry to say is happier to give him the benefit of the doubt than they are her.
The court of public opinion pretty much does consider people guilty until proven innocent, and we see how much damage that does to people later proven innocent.
Nope, still not interested in your vision of the world.
Again, there is no “benefit of the doubt.” He was investigated by the police and charges were never filed. For all intents and purposes, he is innocent.
That’s all right, I’ve no interest in yours, where child molesters are believed and molested children aren’t. And people are endlessly given the benefit of the doubt no matter how repugnant their actions. I’ve seen it on this board before, so I don’t expect much better now.
I’m sorry Sarahfeena, but I have read of too many incredible accusations by children to believe that the testimony of children can be relied on. You really ought to do some research into the hysteria that occurred around the time of the McMartin case. People were put in prison for years based only on the testimony of children, “guided” by social workers, and when investigations finally happened, most of the accusations were disproven and in many cases recanted by the “victims” themselves. One case I remember involved accusations of animal sacrifice (that might even have been McMartin) with assertions from multiple children that they participated in burying dead animals in the basement. Finally sanity prevailed and some investigators dug up the basement. They found not a single skeleton or any other evidence of anything. I think the vast majority of the adults whose lives were totally ruined were eventually let out of prison but I’m sure there are still a lot of those who think no smoke without fire and so forth. In fact, there wasn’t even any smoke.
I’m in no way saying Woody Allen or any other accused is innocent. I am just saying that the words of children about what happened to them, especially after many years have passed and many adults have had conversations with them, cannot be relied upon for prosecuting (or persecuting) anyone. And should not be.