I did try that once. But (a) I couldn’t convince people that a tree on a stand was “a very large wood-burning lamp” (the primary observance is to light candles, lamps, or similar light sources, not just to burn stuff for the sake of FIRE GOOD) and (b) other people wanted their decorations back.
Neither of those have anything to do with Jesus coming to save mankind (‘so you heathens better listen up, already’), and I haven’t seen any “put Christ back in Turkey Day/Memorial Day” movements, or irate patrons frothing at the mouth if you say “Happy Holidays!” in mid-November and they sneer back at you about how you better say “Happy Thanksgiving” instead because Christ died for your turkey. Or something like that.
Yes, Christmas has secular elements. Christians are awesome at co-opting pagan celebration traditions, either to fit in or to make the celebrations more acceptable to others. I understand both people who say, “what, we’re celebrating the secular part; it’s fun!” and those who know that it’s also a celebration of “Christ’s Mass” and don’t feel it’s for them.
Why? Why ignore the religous precursors to those observances, and sieze onto the religous precursors to Christmas?
Ah, the old “*When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” * Why do you define Christmas as a Christian holiday? The trappings are 90% Pagan or secular. The date is possibly pagan. It was never a important Christain holiday at all. Throughout the ages, people have celebrated a winter holiday around Solstice. Saturnalia, Sol Invictus, Yule, and many more. The only thing Christian about the current secular holiday is the name.
Nor does Christmas. That’s Easter. But Thanksgiving was originally a celebration to *thank *God and Jesus.
Christmas is by definition one of Christianity’s two primary observances, at least under current Western practice. THAT is how I define Christmas as a Christian holiday.
Christmas is not on my religious calendar. It is part of my faith to respect other religions’ observances of their festivals – but it is still not my festival. (Vaguely similarly, your birthday is probably an important celebration for you, but it isn’t my birthday. Even if the two are on the same date.)
Any more questions, DrDeth?
He was born with the purpose of saving mankind.
But the file system was full. If the world ever halts, we’re hosed.
(That’s a tech joke. 
)
Again we have "“When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
Its nice that that’s your definition and your holidays. However, that’s not the reality, at least as far as definitions go. Christmas is no more Christian (and every bit as secular) as Thanksgiving.
Let me make sure I understand you, DrDeth.
Your definition of Christmas is “secular American solstice holiday, descending from Christian observance.” Got cite?
My definition of Christmas is “Christian observance, commemorating the birth of the main object of their religious veneration.” Cite.
From your own cite “b. Also called Christmas Day Dec. 25, observed as a day of secular celebrations when gifts and greetings are exchanged”
wiki "Although nominally a Christian holiday, Christmas is also widely celebrated by many non-Christians,[1][13] and many of its popular celebratory customs have pre-Christian or secular themes and origins. Popular modern customs of the holiday include gift-giving, music, an exchange of greeting cards, church celebrations, a special meal, and the display of various decorations; including Christmas trees, lights, garlands, mistletoe, nativity scenes, and holly. In addition, several similar mythological figures, known as Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas and Santa Claus among other names, are associated with bringing gifts to children during the Christmas season.[14]"
"the annual festival of the Christian church commemorating the birth of Jesus: celebrated on December 25 and now generally observed as a legal holiday and an occasion for exchanging gifts. " (italics mine)
Once a minor Christian holiday, even then with possible pagan roots, now a primarily secular holiday.
http://www.answers.com/topic/christmas
In the mid 19th cent. Christmas began to acquire its associations with an increasingly secularized holiday of gift-giving and good cheer, a view that was popularized in works such as Clement Clarke Moore’s poem “A Visit from St. Nicholas” (1823) and Charles Dickens’s story A Christmas Carol (1843). Christmas cards first appeared c.1846. The current concept of a jolly Santa Claus was first made popular in New York in the 19th cent. (see Nicholas, Saint).
No, no, it’s Denali. I know this because a woman in my van to the airport a couple of weeks ago kept yammering on to a colleague about how some Indian coworkers brought in treats for “Denali.” And “corrected” him when he said Diwali. :smack:
Except that you’re wrong when you say that Santa and Christmas trees are purely secular. They can be used secularly, but they are also strongly identified with the Christian holiday. Santa Claus, especially, even has explicit Christian roots.
Except that you said they don’t call it Christmas. They’re not celebrating Christmas–they’re celebrating a pagan holiday that happens at the same time. So either you’re doing a shitty job of presenting your own evidence, or your evidence isn’t doing what you think it’s doing.
No, you are. Because somehow you think that “non-Christian people I know aren’t offended by being wished a Happy Christmas” somehow is an argument for “Christmas isn’t a Christian holiday.”
And the fact that billions of Christians celebrate it as a religious holiday, to greater or lesser degrees. What the fuck does it matter if it used to be a minor holiday or if some parts of it were borrowed from other religions? We’re talking about Christmas as it’s celebrated now, where it’s one of the two most important holidays for one of the world’s largest religions, in all its various iterations.
The fact that you think that just because some people have chosen to divorce it of its religious implications and celebrate it secularly means that it’s absolutely a secular holiday and nobody should have any objection to being required to observe it, even sans an explicit mention of Jesus, boggles my fucking mind.
Dear Co-worker Number One: I realize that you aren’t happy unless you are bitching about something, but for the love of fuzzy little kittens, could you at least be consistent about your bitching?! Need more hours? Okay, you’re scheduled with more hours on the next schedule. But no, you don’t want 6 extra hours (+25% of your usual schedule.) No, you want a full 8-hour shift extra. However, it’s so expensive for you to drive to work! So, back to those six hours you didn’t want - the manager/owner gave you three 10-hour shifts originally, expressly so that you WOULDN’T have any extra commuting costs. And you have three shifts weekly because that’s exactly what you asked for: any more than that, and it will affect your widow’s pension negatively. Just make up your mind… (And for the record? Our colleague whose husband passed away 4 weeks ago? Could really use a little less of your negativity and your eternal paranoia that the owner/manager is out to get all of us. Every now and again, just interact like a normal person - admire someone’s new hairdo or ask about their kids or discuss holiday plans…)
And Co-worker Number Two: Please quit running off guests (thus costing the company money,) and throwing away perfectly good, usable breakfast goods (also costing the company money.) Between wages, utilities, mortgage, insurance, franchise fees, and other fixed costs, the hotel is operating on the slimmest of margins right now. We really, really cannot afford to lose money through your laziness and negligence. (Note that I’m not recommending that soured milk or mouldy bread should be served to guests. However, leftover bagels and danishes that have been displayed in a covered tray and served with tongs can and should be put away for service the next day. Remarkably, we have large plastic containers in the cooler for just that purpose, and it takes approximately 20 seconds to dump the leftovers into those bins and put them back into the refrigerator, instead of just dumping them into the trash.) Oh, yeah - you’re also rude (in a customer-service job) and incompetent. In fact, please just quit.
Dang! I did have it right the first time. :smack:
Happy belated whichever Hindu festival ended a week ago. (Am I getting closer?)
Jesus drank Coke?
Coca-Cola: Christ, It’s Good! 
Water into wine? Total mistranslation.
So is Frosty. But they are all secular. Santa Claus has almost nothing that remains from Saint Nicolaus.
Last Thursday my supervisor scheduled a meeting at 11:00 am at the last minute. It lasted over two fucking hours. It wasn’t an emergency or anything. It was for a review of our team’s work, and could have been scheduled at a more convenient time.
Two of us are diabetics, and the other is a vegan who since his heart attack, only eats at home. (He lives very close.) The boss knows this about all of us.
The week before, he scheduled the meeting with plenty of notice. I had a snack at 10:30, preparing for a somewhat longish meeting. At 11:00, he says, “C’mon, I’m hungry, I’ll buy you guys lunch.” We went to a BBQ place and had the meeting there. Not appropriate for the vegan, who didn’t eat anything, and had to wait until 1:00 when we got back to go home for lunch. I wouldn’t have had a snack if I had known we were going out.
The guy is a clueless dick.
I complained to HR, and was told I did the right thing. She talked to him yesterday. She said she wouldn’t use my name, but I’m sure he still will know, but I don’t care. He needs to not take advantage of people that way.
There’s more to it, but I’ll stop there.
They do call it Christmas, they even say “Happy Christmas”. But they prefer other terms. And, it’s not that it happens at the same time, its the same holiday.
I never said that, again youre making shit up. Apparently, when you are losing a debate, that’s what you do. Oh, and personal attacks. Have you ever had a honest debate in your life? Or is it all strawmen and ad hominen?