World Cup final (possible spoilers)

Cafe Society
101

The penalty was completely correct. If you watch Malouda’s right foot in the first replay, you can see Materazzi definitely kicks it. In the second replay, you can see how that causes the foot to catch on his other leg. Tripping a player driving towards goal is as clear a penalty as you can get.

As for the rest of the match, I was glad France scored early so the Italians couldn’t just lay back, but then they equalized too fast and hardly did anything the rest of the match. Two whole shots on goal in 120 minutes, plus having a man advantage part of the time? These are our World Cup champions? :rolleyes:

Clearly Zidane’s red card was called for, I don’t care if it had to be seen in a video replay or not, but since Materazzi is a known thug, I can only imagine what had been done/said over the course of the game to get that kind of a reaction. It’s a shame ZZ’s temper got the better of him. Maybe he just wanted a Cantona-like incident to be remembered for on his way out. :slight_smile:

Despite Zidane’s idiocy, I’m glad he got the Golden Ball. With little in the way of standout individual performances, he was simply the only player in this tournament I (and all the other soccer fans I know) wanted to see more of.

Here’s hoping for a better Cup in 2010 (with fewer cards!).

102

[QUOTE=duality72]

As for the rest of the match, I was glad France scored early so the Italians couldn’t just lay back, but then they equalized too fast and hardly did anything the rest of the match. Two whole shots on goal in 120 minutes, plus having a man advantage part of the time? These are our World Cup champions? :rolleyes:

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Did you watch any of their other games? Did you note their attacking style of play coupled with an ability to defend and counter? I guess defensive football isn’t good enough for you but then perhaps you’re not as familiar with some of the intricacies of football.

You know Zidane has quite a poor disciplinary history himself right? He’s not exactly an angel. Further, Zidane had a lot more contact with Gattuso moreso than Materazzi. Lastly, it’s part of a central defenders repetoire to harass and distract opposing players.

I think you are confusing your personal taste for a few highlight plays with actual quality play. Zidane paled next to the incredible Cannavaro, Riquelme, Pirlo, Ballack, Drogba etc. Simply put, he was nowhere near the best player at the WC.

103

I’ve been thinking about it today, and the Zidane headbutt seems like the most crazy+important thing I’ve heard of in sports. Todd Bertuzzi or Marty McSorley were maybe more crazy, but happened in regular NHL games. This was extra time of the world cup final!

The only thing that comes to mind is again the Tyson-Holyfield ear biting. The world cup final seems like a bigger event than the heavyweight championship, although maybe in the past it wasn’t. So if, say, Ali had bitten George Foreman it might have beaten out Zidane :D.

Seriously, how could you beat this? You’d need something like a guy chloroforming a competitor during the 100m final at the olympics.

104

[QUOTE=borschevsky]

The only thing that comes to mind is again the Tyson-Holyfield ear biting. The world cup final seems like a bigger event than the heavyweight championship, although maybe in the past it wasn’t. So if, say, Ali had bitten George Foreman it might have beaten out Zidane :D.

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And the thing about that was Tyson was losing and would have lost unquestionably if he hadn’t gnawed off Holyfield’s ear. France probably had a decent chance of pulling off a goal in the last ten minutes prior to PK’s. (because it looked like Italy was running on fumes, at that point)

Given the event, the situation, and the fact that it was a world class player in his final game, plus the brutality of the incident; it’s my opinion that it was dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in sports.

105

[QUOTE=Lochdale]
…attacking style of play…defensive football…
[/QUOTE]

Can’t quite make up your mind there, eh? For what it’s worth, you were right the second time and it’s why catenaccio is practically synonymous with Italian football. I had hoped we might see some of the aggression Italy showed at times during the tournament, but instead we got Italy grinding out a draw against a (seemingly) superior opponent. Bravo. :golfclap:

You’re free to think so, but no one’s creating videos of their outstanding play this World Cup to send around.

106

[QUOTE=duality72]
I had hoped we might see some of the aggression Italy showed at times during the tournament, but instead we got Italy grinding out a draw against a (seemingly) superior opponent. Bravo. :golfclap:
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Were you blinking or something when Italy scored the only goal from normal play and nearly scored twice more? Seriously; what match were you watching?

Right, because everyone’s obsessed with individual moments of flair play. And so are FIFA; to the extent that they demanded that every single tackle, successful or not, be yellow carded. And look what that got us; the shittiest diving ever seen in the history of the sport. No fucking flair got seen in this tournament because every fucking flair player fell over at the earliest opportunity because they knew they’d get rewarded for it. You can blame defensive teams for that if you want, but I sure as hell won’t.

Sorry if this seems mostly like a rant at you; it’s not - it’s more aimed at FIFA. But I simply get hacked off seeing teams criticised for defending well. It’s half the bloody game! Maybe FIFA want to see tackling eliminated, but I for one am determined that performances like Cannavaro’s and Gattuso’s get recognised for what they were; outstanding footballing talent. No, they weren’t juggling the ball over eight defenders and curling the ball into the net off the referee’s head, but they won the bleeding tournament by being outstanding. How are people complaining about this? How?

As for the youtube video of the Malouda penalty, for me the absolute clincher is the second replay angle shown. He clearly tucks his right leg behind his left after Materazzi has passed behind him, and the contact is minimal to non-existent. As I said before, I can’t blame the referee in the slightest, but that was not a foul. It was at best an inadvertent self-trip, at worst a very convincing dive.

Again I apologise for my vehemence here, but I just cannot understand the malice being directed at the Italian squad. I detest Italian football in general, but I have to stand back and say that they were the best team of the tournament this year. I’m very sorry if they weren’t scoring 23-pass 40-yard scorchers, but that isn’t always what the game is about. They deserved to win, and they did. Well done to them.

107

[QUOTE=duality72]
Can’t quite make up your mind there, eh? For what it’s worth, you were right the second time and it’s why catenaccio is practically synonymous with Italian football. I had hoped we might see some of the aggression Italy showed at times during the tournament, but instead we got Italy grinding out a draw against a (seemingly) superior opponent. Bravo. :golfclap:
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Actually you can have both. It’s called counter-attacking football. The Italians are the mastes at it. It’s also a legitimate form of football. To say that I “can’t make up my mind” betrays an ignorance of football that is only trumped by this gem:

So because a player can do a couple of tricks that look pretty on camera then they are the best footballers around? So a current Harlem Globetrotter is better than O’Neal or Wade or Nash etc. etc. Football is about a lot more than neat tricks and clever touchers. It’s about movement, passing, enduarance, timing, tackling, organization and so on. The impact that, for example, the likes of Canavarro had on his team dwarves that of Zidane. Indeed, I would argue that Viera and Riberry were more important to France than Zidane was.

I’m guessing you think Beckham was world class as well right?

108

[QUOTE=duality72]
Can’t quite make up your mind there, eh? For what it’s worth, you were right the second time and it’s why catenaccio is practically synonymous with Italian football. I had hoped we might see some of the aggression Italy showed at times during the tournament, but instead we got Italy grinding out a draw against a (seemingly) superior opponent. Bravo. :golfclap:
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[/QUOTE]

Actually you can have both. It’s called counter-attacking football. The Italians are the mastes at it. It’s also a legitimate form of football. To say that I “can’t make up my mind” betrays an ignorance of football that is only trumped by this gem:

So because a player can do a couple of tricks that look pretty on camera then they are the best footballers around? So a current Harlem Globetrotter is better than O’Neal or Wade or Nash etc. etc. Football is about a lot more than neat tricks and clever touches. It’s about movement, passing, enduarance, timing, tackling, organization and so on. The impact that, for example, the likes of Canavarro had on his team dwarves that of Zidane. Indeed, I would argue that Viera and Riberry were more important to France than Zidane was. Put another way, the overall contribution of the likes of Riquelma or a Ballack are more important than any trick Zidane may have done…well, other than that trick with his head.

I’m guessing you think Beckham was world class as well right?

109

Oh and if you think “catenaccio” is synonymous with modern Italian football, and in particular what Lippi got his team practising, then you have neither read your own cite, nor watched any of the Italian games. “Good defence” does not equate to shutting the game down.

110

And finally, because I’m just not letting this go: you realise that Italy scored twelve goals to France’s nine in the tournament? Despite France having an absolutely piss-easy group, and Italy having unarguably the hardest?

Was I watching different semi-finals? Was it perhaps Italy who scored an early penalty then shut up shop for a godawful 60-odd minutes, while France scored twice in extra time in one of the most absorbing matches of football in the entire tournament? Was it maybe Italy, after all, who managed stale draws with Switzerland and South Korea, two of the worst teams in the tournament, while France tonked the Czech Republic and Ghana (one of the outstanding lesser teams) 2-0?

For anyone wondering, the answer to all of these questions is “no.” And for anyone wondering how a team that practices negative football might achieve all these great results, the answer is that they didn’t. Italy did.

Now if you’ll excuse me, this horse I’m on is giving me vertigo.

111

Yes, but Italy don’t look as pretty in highlight reels (even if they may be taken out of context) :rolleyes:

I don’t mind silly comments made out of a genuine lack of knowledge but I find stupidity coupled with arrogance to be a tough pill to swallow.

112

[QUOTE=Dead Badger]
Sorry if this seems mostly like a rant at you; it’s not - it’s more aimed at FIFA. But I simply get hacked off seeing teams criticised for defending well. It’s half the bloody game! Maybe FIFA want to see tackling eliminated, but I for one am determined that performances like Cannavaro’s and Gattuso’s get recognised for what they were; outstanding footballing talent. No, they weren’t juggling the ball over eight defenders and curling the ball into the net off the referee’s head, but they won the bleeding tournament by being outstanding. How are people complaining about this? How?
[/quote]

Is anyone complaining about this? Italy did defend well, undoubtedly. But, as you said, that’s only half the game. Did Italy stand out otherwise? I don’t think so, particularly in knockout play. And personally, I’ll agree FIFA’s gone overboard on regulating tackles.

[QUOTE=Dead Badger]
As for the youtube video of the Malouda penalty, for me the absolute clincher is the second replay angle shown. He clearly tucks his right leg behind his left after Materazzi has passed behind him, and the contact is minimal to non-existent. As I said before, I can’t blame the referee in the slightest, but that was not a foul. It was at best an inadvertent self-trip, at worst a very convincing dive.
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You can only say he ‘tucked’ his foot if you ignore the first replay that clearly shows Materazzi kicking Malouda’s foot. Once you see those two facts, watch it at full speed or the last replay and it’s an obvious trip. If you’re still in denial at that point, I’ll be happy to forward your resume to the Bush administration. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Dead Badger]
Again I apologise for my vehemence here, but I just cannot understand the malice being directed at the Italian squad. I detest Italian football in general, but I have to stand back and say that they were the best team of the tournament this year. I’m very sorry if they weren’t scoring 23-pass 40-yard scorchers, but that isn’t always what the game is about. They deserved to win, and they did. Well done to them.
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See, I thought Italy had it pretty easy for most of the tournament. Group E turned out to be a Group of Mediocrity. Then they ended up with a relatively cushy road to the semifinals. And for two of the games to this point, Italy looked perilously close to losing. The game against Germany was very good; maybe Italy really had changed. But then that final performance was pretty underwhelming. Now France had its own problems in the group stage, but taking down Spain, Brazil, and Portugal in the knockout stages and then dominating offense and defense in the final? That’s a championship-worthy performance.

In the end, though, Italy did what it had to do and it came down to PKs and one shot being two inches off the mark. :smack: D’oh!

Lochdale, you appear to be heading toward dangerous waters, so I’ll leave you to your ironic arguments.

113

[QUOTE=duality72]

Lochdale, you appear to be heading toward dangerous waters, so I’ll leave you to your ironic arguments.
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Nothing ironic about them. You just don’t appear to know much about football. Keep watching the games and reading threads like this as perhaps they’ll help you out somewhat.