World of Warcraft General Discussion

The Game Room
2161

Druids (feral) can spec to tank. Not all do, there is a difference among ferals, between a "cat DPS spec’ and a “bear tank spec”.
Balance or resto druids can not tank.

Warriors can spec to tank. Prot warriors are tanks. Arms and fury warriors are DPS. They can tank the low level stuff, but in a real raid, they simply will not hold threat uless the DPS sucks. Sorry, but it’s true.

Deathknights can tank. Again, whether they are frost or blood or unholy will decide how well they do. One does better on on boss mob. Another does better on multimob trash pulls. But, they have to know how to spec for tanking. Most DKs are specced for DPS.

Paladins can tank, and they have to spec for it. A holy (healer) or ret (DPS) will not be tanking.

In some gimmick fights, warlocks will tank. BUT these are gimmick fights.

For each of these classes, you have to spec for tanking. You ideally pick the fights where your class and spec are favored (different fights will favor different types of tanks).

But to expect people to respec, or chosse their class based on what someone else wants or feels entitled to, ain’t gonna happen. I believe the stock answer is “when you pay my subscription, then you might have a say in what I do.”

2162

Mages can tank in some gimmick fights as well. In current content, any ranged class with a decent healer can tank Mimiron’s head, for example. And in BC, mages were the only class who could tank one of the adds in the High King Maulgar part of Gruul’s Lair, and one of the four members of the Illidari Council in the Black Temple, due to their Spellsteal ability (which was needed to steal a powerful defensive buff).

2163

Rogues can also do some gimmick tanking, if suitably geared and buffed.

2164

I thought some change to talents in 3.0 ended rogue tanking as a possibility.

2165

My 3.2 reactions to stuff that affects me:

[ul][li]New instance and raid, whee![/li][li]All the twink changes are awesome. The only people who have any reason to QQ are ones who twinked to gank. I’m excited that I can stop being paranoid about dinging my old twink and that the new one I was about to start will be able to run an instance as many times as she needs to get an item to drop, or do any quest she’s eligible for to get an item reward without worrying about getting too much XP. Hell, I could even go run an instance for fun![/li][li]WSG timer: THANK YOU GOD.[/li][li]Block changes: It’s a good start to fixing a broken system. But WTF not buffing intrinsic shield block value? Soooooo my old Skull of Ruin is going to have MORE BLOCK than my new Wall of Terror? Better think that one through again.[/li][li]Emblem changes: No more hand-me-down badge gear for 10-man raiders![/li][li]Mounts: Huzzah for faster cast times. Of two minds about the mount changes. I’d be happier if people had to do it the hard way once, then had the earlier mounts open up for alts, but there’s really no way to implement that. I don’t think the cash needed to be nerfed, though.[/li][li]Armored to the Teeth: It’s a good buff that will benefit all three specs (just about everybody takes 3/3 in this), but c’mon, Blizzard–EVERYONE admits that we’re kind of broken at the moment, and we get exactly ONE change while classes that are doing fine get about fifty? :dubious:[/li][li]UI changes: I have add-ons that do a lot of these things already, but I’m glad to see them being made default.[/li][li]Alchemy buffs: ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Now I’ll just have to wait and see if the changes are as good as they’re promising to be (e.g., exactly how much more benefit from Mixology).[/li][li]Cooking buffs: Woot for faster cooking time with my pretty, pretty hat.[/li][li]Fishing: More awards that I can either stash for as-yet unreleased recipes or trade in for spices to sell? I like it.[/li][li]Herb: THANK YOU, Lifeblood buff! A 2k HOT is better than nothing, but when my buffed HP is in the mid-to-upper 30k range…[/ul][/li]

I have offhand fish and a mainhand fish (rare drop from the STV fishing tourney), but I use a rolling pin and a bloody cleaver. :smiley:

Replenishment is getting a nerf, MP5 is getting a buff. People still aren’t having to ration mana, and Blizz wants them to prioritize MP5 more than they are.

Yup, that’s what I heard, too. Everyone started speaking Common in the beta, but they removed it because of people using it to harass the opposing faction. Undead could still speak Common for a while, but there was still cross-faction harassment, so they removed that, as well.

Not only will a DPS-specced Warrior not have the threat-generating abilities of a Prot-specced one, they also won’t have the survivability, even if they’re wearing a tanking set of armor.

Not anymore, AFAIK. There have been too many changes to the Talent trees and diminishing returns added in to avoidance stats for Rogues to be able to get to the level where they can be unhittable by a physical-damage raid boss.

2166

My spec (unholy DK) seems to have gotten the short end of the nerf-stick in 3.2 (though maybe frost DKs got it worse - fewer individual nerfs but losing health bonuses from frost presence has got to hurt).

2167

That makes sense. Don’t Holy Pallies pretty much ignore MP5 at these point and just get a huge mana pool and count on replenishment and their mana-returning talents to keep it up?

2168

Entirely possible. I don’t pay attention to class changes that don’t affect druids, since that’s all I’ve been playing.

About the only changes in 3.2 that I care about are the new druid forms, new pets, new dailies, new Children’s Week stuff, cooking and fishing stuff, and more opportunities for Champion Seals. Other than those, none of the rest affect or interest me in the slightest.

2169

This is an awesome change and one that I actually suggested a few months ago on the Blizzard forum. Not only does this help twinks, but it’s a huge boon for old world raiding organizations. Any group that wants to take the time to “pause” the game and enjoy the Blackrock Mountain complex at level sixty or Karazhan and the BC instances at level seventy now has a way to do so. As it stands there’s too much ground to cover before you’ve outleveled these instances.

2170

Not Replenishment, Illumination (which is being reduced from 60% to a 30% refund anyway). Replenishment is the Retribution Paladin’s way of keeping mana up.

It looks like the reduction in Illumination is another ‘encouragement’ toward MP5.

2171

Bosstone, I think he meant Replenishment from raid members. All mana-users count on the Replenishment effect, even those that can’t themselves spec for it.

2172

Yeah, that’s what I meant. For example, I spec into Hunting Party mainly for other raid members (although it does help me a bit too). Now that I have a pretty solid 10-man group that always has Ret Pally (Judgement of the Wise) I’m thinking about dropping Hunting Party… if it gets nerfed I might be even more likely to do so.

I was under the impression that Illumination combined with some form of Replenishment made MP5 pretty much unnecessary for Holy Pallies (and perhaps some other specs as well).

2173

[quote=“Shot_From_Guns, post:2165, topic:488294”]

My 3.2 reactions to stuff that affects me:

[ul][li]New instance and raid, whee![/li][li]All the twink changes are awesome. The only people who have any reason to QQ are ones who twinked to gank. I’m excited that I can stop being paranoid about dinging my old twink and that the new one I was about to start will be able to run an instance as many times as she needs to get an item to drop, or do any quest she’s eligible for to get an item reward without worrying about getting too much XP. Hell, I could even go run an instance for fun![/li][li]WSG timer: THANK YOU GOD.[/li][li]Block changes: It’s a good start to fixing a broken system. But WTF not buffing intrinsic shield block value? Soooooo my old Skull of Ruin is going to have MORE BLOCK than my new Wall of Terror? Better think that one through again.[/li][li]Emblem changes: No more hand-me-down badge gear for 10-man raiders![/li][li]Mounts: Huzzah for faster cast times. Of two minds about the mount changes. I’d be happier if people had to do it the hard way once, then had the earlier mounts open up for alts, but there’s really no way to implement that. I don’t think the cash needed to be nerfed, though.[/li][li]Armored to the Teeth: It’s a good buff that will benefit all three specs (just about everybody takes 3/3 in this), but c’mon, Blizzard–EVERYONE admits that we’re kind of broken at the moment, and we get exactly ONE change while classes that are doing fine get about fifty? :dubious:[/li][li]UI changes: I have add-ons that do a lot of these things already, but I’m glad to see them being made default.[/li][li]Alchemy buffs: ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Now I’ll just have to wait and see if the changes are as good as they’re promising to be (e.g., exactly how much more benefit from Mixology).[/li][li]Cooking buffs: Woot for faster cooking time with my pretty, pretty hat.[/li][li]Fishing: More awards that I can either stash for as-yet unreleased recipes or trade in for spices to sell? I like it.[/li][li]Herb: THANK YOU, Lifeblood buff! A 2k HOT is better than nothing, but when my buffed HP is in the mid-to-upper 30k range…[/ul][/li][/quote]

Love, love, love the twink changes. It does leave some room for gankers, if they want to go out of their way to be jerks, but not quite as large of one as before. And I can go work on my fishing hat now without worrying about getting xp from exploring! Anything that makes WSG finite is good in my book (I once had one run for so long I ran out of arrows (and I had started with over 1400)). Not so hot on the AB and EotS changes, never had either one drag out, and it makes it harder to do come-from-behind wins.

New instance!!! New Content!!! Wait, every fight twice a week? Even better!!! Boss Attempts mean something!!! AWESOME!!! :):):slight_smile: (my little raiding heart is racing with the idea)

I don’t really like the badge changes, but I don’t think they matter that much. There’s so little worthwhile from the Conquest badges anyway (just the tier tokens and runed orbs). I don’t like that the new token will be available outside of raids, mostly because I’ll feel I have to go get those tokens during non-raid times in order to keep my gear up to par.

I’d love to see the value of the profession buffs. How much SP are my rings getting, what are the numbers for the tailoring buffs, etc.

Holy… A new BG?! A 40 man??? Blizz sends teh luvz to me!!

Orc racial change: huh, they made Axe specialization useless to me twice.

Pet changes: Meet my friendly little puppy. :smiley: See how much harder he is to kill? Me too! :cool::D:cool:

Lock changes: Noooooooooooo! :eek::eek::(:(:eek::eek:I was finally competitve again… why’d you nerf me? (5% nerf to incin and CB on target affected by immolate (all my targets)). The other changes are ok, but they don’t really afffect my spec…

Yes, but the change to Divine Intellect is going to effect Holy Pallies more than the change to replenishment. That, and the huuuge nerf to Illumination. I don’t think the changes to Beacon and Flash of Light are going to make up for it, but I like those changes (though with SS still being one up at a time, it’s not quite there). (I don’t think this will stop Holly Pallies from Int stacking though, Divine Plea is just too good (if I can make my pool last 4 minutes without it, I can last forever)).

Still, at least I will be able to something like raid healing with these changes, and dear lord will I be able to break the HPS meters.
Behsten Slahtz…Best In Slots. Gods, I love Blizz some days.

2174

1.) I would assume that they’re still going to be balancing encounters with the assumption of Replenishment. If you’re running 10-mans, one person with it should be enough. But if you want to do 25s at all, I’d suggest staying with 2-3 people until you can figure out how the regen rebalance is going to work.

2.) My only raiding character is a Warrior, so mana is a non-issue for me, but it’s been my impression that MP5 has been a pretty useless stat for everybody, not just Holy Pallies. Well, not useless, but not something you factor heavily into gear selection/chant for/gem for.

2175

Well, melee crits (through Art of War) will make Exorcism instant cast (just like the with the Flash of Light)…therefore I’m shooting on getting my crit % up to 33.3% so it becomes an instant cast about half of the time.

2176

I stand corrected about Replenishment.

My main dismay stems from using it in lowbie-lands to feel awesome. There’s nothing like leading my friends’ lowbie characters through Westfall and just zapping stuff without breaking stride to make me feel awesome.

Not exactly the best justification for keeping it instant, but still. :smiley:

2177

So if I replace the word class with the word “spec” in my dictionary, we will be on the same page? So are you saying that “warriors” are tanks is about as accurate as saying cloth classes are healers.

If the woman is in fact dressing like a slut then why isn’t that good advice?

2178

Because how someone dresses is their own business.

2179

Okay, guys, take a breather.

I play a Retribution Paladin. Someone whispers to me “Hey, want to heal Durnholde?” (This actually happened a couple nights ago.)

Now, Paladins are capable of healing. Presuming there’s no way for this guy to easily check my talents in game without being near me, it’s not out of the question that I might be specced for healing.

Here’s Critical Juncture #1: Am I annoyed that I was asked the question?

If I am annoyed, then Damuri Ajashi is correct. I shouldn’t even be playing a class capable of healing if I don’t ever want to be asked to do so, whether because the person wrongfully pigeonholes me or is innocently unaware of how I’m specced out. At this point, it’s my problem, nobody else’s.

Let’s say I am not annoyed, but I say “No, I wouldn’t be a good healer,” or “I’m specced Ret.”

Here’s Critical Juncture #2: Is the asker annoyed that I can’t fill the role he wants me for?

If he is, and he begins to bitch at me, then SFG is correct. I’ve told them the information they need to know, and if they have a problem with how I choose to play, that’s on them and not me.

(As it happened, I just told the guy I couldn’t and he never replied to me after that. No harm, no foul.)

Are we clear, now? There’s no actual point of contention here.

If a girl dresses like a “Paladin,” and she’s asked to, ahem, “heal,” I don’t think it’s appropriate to be surprised or angry. But the asker needs to respect her wishes if she declines.

2180

Pretty much. There are cloth healers, leather healers, mail healers, and plate healers. And mages and warlocks are cloth classes who don’t (indeed, can’t) heal.

There are four classes, in general, who can tank. If they spec for it. Just like the aforementioned healers can heal…if they spec for it. Those same classes can just as well DPS, or tank, depending on the class.