World of Warcraft General Discussion

[Tom_Scud]

@MindWanderer

Also, Howling Fjord quests seem to be pretty sparse, I ran out of quests rather quickly, so I must be missing a hub. I’ve hopped over to Borean Tundra and I’ve found plenty of quests there.

At least on the Horde side, Howling Fjord is more spread out than Borean, with four big quest hubs and a couple smaller ones; Borean has only two main hubs although there are maybe half a dozen smaller ones (depending on how you look at it I guess Coldarra (where the Nexus is) might also count as a main hub).

If you’re on the horde side, you should have gotten a couple messenger quests from Vengeance Landing - one to deliver a plague sample to New Agamond, another to go help someone at a camp at the top of the nearby lift, where in turn you would have gotten a messenger quest that took you to the main Tauren/Taunka area in HF. I’d guess Alliance has a similar setup, but I’ve never levelled an Alliance toon higher than 31 so I have no direct experience there.

[Tom_Scud]

@Mister_Rik

I’m also repeatedly encountering a phenomenon with the RDF that is driving me nuts and prompts me to ask this question: What the hell kind of DPS waits in the queue for 15+ minutes, and then declines the invite when it pops up?.

I can totally see that. You have say 45 minutes to kill; you log onto WoW and pop into the queue in case you get into a dungeon quickly; but by the time the window pops up 15 minutes later, you realize you don’t really have time and decline it. I haven’t done this that much under the new system, but I used to list myself on LFG right after logging on and then 30 minutes later have to say “sorry, no time” to the person who finally invited me to a group.

(Or else you’re in the middle of some tricky area full of hostiles and don’t feel like getting plopped back there and probably dying after the instance is finished).

[MindWanderer]

@Tom_Scud

If you’re on the horde side, you should have gotten a couple messenger quests from Vengeance Landing - one to deliver a plague sample to New Agamond, another to go help someone at a camp at the top of the nearby lift, where in turn you would have gotten a messenger quest that took you to the main Tauren/Taunka area in HF. I’d guess Alliance has a similar setup, but I’ve never levelled an Alliance toon higher than 31 so I have no direct experience there.

My rogue Nikarus is horde side. I do have a alliance side 80 priest, but I’ve been levelling up the rogue and experiencing Horde, which has a lot of neat quests and stuff. I got to New Agamond, but I must have missed the other hubs.

[Ferret_Herder]

@Tom_Scud

(Or else you’re in the middle of some tricky area full of hostiles and don’t feel like getting plopped back there and probably dying after the instance is finished).

If you’re out of combat and have a flying mount, you can always fly up in the air above the hostiles and then accept the dungeon invite. When you return, you’ll be on your mount in the air, same spot.

I find that when it happens to me, it’s because I get bored and wander off to do something or tab out to surf the web, and either miscalculate the countdown clock or find that I got randomed into something much sooner than I’d expected.

[One_And_Only_Wanderers]

When do instance specific tactics become important? I am lvl 55 and when i queue for a dungeon, all I am doing is trying to maintain aggro. The one exception has been the dungeon where melee need to stay away from the poison blobs.

Reading this thread its all stage 1, 2, 3 of the boss fight etc. When does this become important?

[Tom_Scud]

@Ferret_Herder

If you’re out of combat and have a flying mount, you can always fly up in the air above the hostiles and then accept the dungeon invite. When you return, you’ll be on your mount in the air, same spot.

Well, unless you’re indoors/underground. I don’t know that I’ve actually ever refused an invite for that reason, but sometimes I let it tick down a long way before accepting because I’m trying to get on my mount and up in the air.

I did die once because I was doing the jousting quest near Icecrown and accepted with about 2 seconds to spare as soon as I could get off my warhorse. When I left the instance, I didn’t even see what hit me before I was asked if I wanted to release my spirit.

[Skammer]

Burning Dog Legion weekly dungeon run tonight!

We’re on Shadow Labyrinth in Auchindoun, Terekkor Forest. Minimum level is 65.

I hope we can get a full party of guildies… this is an instance I’ve never done before and I’m near the low end of the level range for this dungeon.

We’ll start around 8:45 server time.

[Infovore]

@Quasimodem

I get your point about the not limiting their levels, but the fact remains I can only safely (with the memory shit going on) help until 15 or so, and that’s the reason I tell 'em they can leave when they feel like they have the strategy down.

And yeah, I know I need to chill. It’s just that this is a way to help others as y’all helped me. I can just only do it to a certain level. After that, well, I’d be a liability and not an asshat.

Quasi, I think one of the things that might be in play here is that you might be thinking “There are a lot of low level characters out there, so that must mean they’re new to the game and might need some help.” The thing is, I would bet that out of every 10 15-and-under characters you see, at least 7 of them are alts of folks who already have high levels, and they’re leveling something new because they’re bored, their guild needs a different class, or they’re playing with a friend who’s got a new character (which means that the newbie friend already has a helper).

If you want my unsolicited advice (and please feel free to ignore it if you don’t ), if I were you I would not focus on being a guild where you take newbies under your wing. **jayjay **is right: most players don’t need a father figure as a guild leader. They don’t stay lowbies very long. You would probably be better off focusing on being a social leveling guild–some place for folks who just want a place to hang out with some nice people, help each other out, chat in a civilized manner, and not feel pressured (or feel like every other line in guild chat is a 4-letter word or a racist or homophobic remark. Yes, there are guilds like that. They can be very jarring for anybody who doesn’t know what they’re getting into). There are a lot of people who are looking for that, and you’ll probably have better luck.

Getting a guild up and running isn’t easy–you’re competing with everybody else on the server who’s bought a guild charter and managed to bribe 9 other people into signing it. In order to succeed, you need to be unique in some way, or offer something that people want and can’t get elsewhere. As a social guild, you might also keep people around longer, since they’re there because they enjoy each other’s company, not just because they want free stuff and help to get them up to level 15.

[Jas09]

@One_And_Only_Wanderers

Reading this thread its all stage 1, 2, 3 of the boss fight etc. When does this become important?

Mainly in raids, to be honest. There are perhaps a couple of 5-man dungeons that have “phases”, but nothing like the level of tactics required for some of the more difficult raid bosses. If anything, a 5-man boss is likely to have one gimmick that it’s nice to be aware of, while a good number are simply “tank and spank”.

[Viscera]

@One_And_Only_Wanderers

How do you know what the best gear available for a given toon is? Is there a databse somewhere?

For shadowpriests, I use: WoW Classic PvE Shadow Priest Guide - WoW Classic - Warcraft Tavern

However, this is mainly raiding gear. There is a link at the top of that thread for 3.2 (pre-Icecrown), which includes a bunch of entry WotLK raids, and dungeon drops.

edit: Big however on 3.2 page though, as there was a bunch of stat weighting changes in 3.3 (haste is more important now).

[Viscera]

@Tom_Scud

Well, unless you’re indoors/underground. I don’t know that I’ve actually ever refused an invite for that reason, but sometimes I let it tick down a long way before accepting because I’m trying to get on my mount and up in the air.

I did die once because I was doing the jousting quest near Icecrown and accepted with about 2 seconds to spare as soon as I could get off my warhorse. When I left the instance, I didn’t even see what hit me before I was asked if I wanted to release my spirit.

There is a bug if you dungeon up on your flying mount, you can occasionally come back dead. So, I always find sold ground before joining.

[smiling_bandit]

Can I get any advice for a Dk blood tank?

I’m only 65 and have been running a few outland dungeons. So far, mostly pretty good. I do have trouble holding aggro sometimes even with Death n’ Decay.

A few caveats:

Yes, I use Heart Strike when practical. Sometimes with mobs of mobs it seemed fairly useless for aggro, though.

Yes, I use Death n’ Decay. I don’t have it glyphed right now.

Yes, I tank in Frost Presence.

I usually follow up DnD with Disease/Disease/Pestilence to put it everywhere and if my runes are up Blood Boil. If I can pull of all of that reasonably quickly, I can prolly hold aggro, but that doesn’t always happen before people have pulled them off of me. Maybe they shouldn’t be wildly and without thinking unleash their most powerful AoE’s on everything, but let’s be reasonable and assume the DPS is going to ignore everything but their damage meters.

Please excuse the poor gearing, I’m in outland and grabbign a mix of tankign and dps gear because I’m soloing as well. Also, most items are going out as soon as they come in.

Talents: World of Warcraft

Some of this is experiments I’m doing for fun, so also please excuse the confusion in talents.

I’m planning to remove Dancing Rune Weapon ( I really have never felt like I needed it or that it was remotely interesting or useful). I am planning on removing Bloodworms. They’re funny, but the amount they heal isn’t really that great when I have Death Strike and Rune Tap.

After some trepidation, I really like Death Strike. With the glyph, it becomes pretty pwoerful and often does as much or more than my Heart Strike. The healing is handy return even in dungeons, and with the talents it gives me Death Runes! I can understand whyn some people avoid it, but I enjoy the talent, so I’ll stick with it for now. Plus, part of my character is leaning how I’ll need to tank in Cataclysm, where self-healing will put up a damage shield on DK tanks.

I may grab butchery for the extra Runic Power and I definitely want Spell Deflection. I figure that, plus Vampiric Blood, will make me a good Tank. There are additional utility talents tossed into Unholy and Frost.

So, I’m building towards this:

World of Warcraft

[Infovore]

@smiling_bandit

Can I get any advice for a Dk blood tank?

My DK is a blood tank and I love it. The only issues I sometimes have with it (especially in dungeons–he’s more of a raid tank) is that it takes me a few seconds to get aggro initially, so AOE-happy DPS can pull things off if I’m not careful and I need to be quick on the taunts.

My single-target rotation is:

Icy Touch - Plague Strike - Heart Strike - Heart Strike - Death Strike - Heart Strike x 3 (x4 if I can fit it in before having to refresh diseases). Repeat as necessary until mob is dead.

My AoE rotation is:

DnD - Icy Touch - Plague Strike - Pestilence - Blood Boil - Death Strike - Blood Boil (repeat as necessary–re-apply DnD when it’s convenient, and use extra Blood Boils if you need them for AoE threat).

You can toss Death Coils in there when you have the runic power (both AoE and single target) but your primary runic dump should be Rune Strike. Macro this into your primary abilities. There’s some argument about whether this is good (very rarely it means that you don’t have the runes available when you need them) but I’ve never found it to be a problem.

You’re right, you don’t need DRW as a tank–that’s a DPS talent.

Your “I’m working toward this” spec doesn’t seem to be coming up properly (either that or you linked to your current) but it looks like you don’t have Vampiric Blood. This is one of your main important talents as a blood tank. This is your “oh shit” button and your shield wall. You must take this talent. You also need to put 5 points into Toughness in the Frost tree and Anticipation in the Unholy tree. You should probably be doing this even now–those are the baseline tank talents.

There are some nice things in the Unholy tree that will help you generate more threat as well (which is always good).

If you want some ideas, take a look at my spec. Like I said, he’s more of a raid tank so some of your choices might be a bit different, but it’s a good place to start.

World of Warcraft

Edit: Oh, and I found that a lovely place to practice AoE tanking rotations is in the dead side of Stratholme. You have enough self-healing that you’ll barely need to slow down, and the mobs are high enough to be a challenge while low enough that they won’t insta-gib you (even in large numbers) if you screw up your rotation. At 65 you’ll probably need to go a bit lower than that, but lower level instances with straightforward mobs are great.

[smiling_bandit]

@winterhawk11

Your “I’m working toward this” spec doesn’t seem to be coming up properly (either that or you linked to your current) but it looks like you don’t have Vampiric Blood. This is one of your main important talents as a blood tank. This is your “oh shit” button and your shield wall. You must take this talent. You also need to put 5 points into Toughness in the Frost tree and Anticipation in the Unholy tree. You should probably be doing this even now–those are the baseline tank talents.

Those are the big changes I had in mind, definitely (I mean, Vampiric Blood was obvious, it’s just that this started out as DPS and then I began doing dungeons as tank, so…)

What i guess I’m curious on is that there’s a lot of argument over whether you should sub Frost, sub Unholy, or mix the two. I plan on mixing them to slow down the incoming damage with Improved Icy Touch. Necrosis is a very big DO WANT, but I’m having a hard time coming up with the points.

I think the big differences in the Blood talents that I was looking at are Subversion and Butchery versus your Scent of Blood. I kinda like the idea of Scent of Blood, but all in all I’m not sure it’s actually that much better given the points put into it. I liked Subversion because it works very well with Might of Mograine. Partly, too, Scent of Blood seems to take a long time to proc and gain Runic Power from because of the slow 2-hander swing speed. But I don’t know how it all works out ultimately.

Welkl, how’s this:

World of Warcraft

I really miss the lovely Improved Icy Touch.

[Infovore]

@smiling_bandit

What i guess I’m curious on is that there’s a lot of argument over whether you should sub Frost, sub Unholy, or mix the two. I plan on mixing them to slow down the incoming damage with Improved Icy Touch. Necrosis is a very big DO WANT, but I’m having a hard time coming up with the points.

I think the big differences in the Blood talents that I was looking at are Subversion and Butchery versus your Scent of Blood. I kinda like the idea of Scent of Blood, but all in all I’m not sure it’s actually that much better given the points put into it. I liked Subversion because it works very well with Might of Mograine.

I wouldn’t take Subversion as a tank. That’s a DPS talent. “Reduces threat generated while in Blood or Unholy presence by 8%”–in the first place, as a tank you’re never going to be in either of those presences, and threat reduction talents are useless to tanks anyway. The crit chance bonus is nice, but why take a talent that you can’t use half of its benefit?

Partly, too, Scent of Blood seems to take a long time to proc and gain Runic Power from because of the slow 2-hander swing speed. But I don’t know how it all works out ultimately.

Well, remember too that it’s not very likely that you’re going to be dealing the killing blow on mobs as a tank (usually your DPS will be doing that) so it’s probably about a wash with the Butchery proc.

Welkl, how’s this:

World of Warcraft

I really miss the lovely Improved Icy Touch.

That looks good. You might need to move a couple of things around a bit if you’re going to primarily be tanking heroics rather than raids (because PUGs are generally idiots and won’t let you get aggro, so aggro-generating talents are sometimes better than “keep you safe” type talents), but that spec should serve you well.

[smiling_bandit]

@winterhawk11

I wouldn’t take Subversion as a tank. That’s a DPS talent. “Reduces threat generated while in Blood or Unholy presence by 8%”–in the first place, as a tank you’re never going to be in either of those presences, and threat reduction talents are useless to tanks anyway. The crit chance bonus is nice, but why take a talent that you can’t use half of its benefit?

Well, the 9% crit chance on Heart Strike is really nice?

That looks good. You might need to move a couple of things around a bit if you’re going to primarily be tanking heroics rather than raids (because PUGs are generally idiots and won’t let you get aggro, so aggro-generating talents are sometimes better than “keep you safe” type talents), but that spec should serve you well.

Wait, I made a mistake there. Actually several big ones.

I looked into Scent of Blood… no way. I don’t like it because I don’t want to ever have a normal melee strike for it proc off of. It could be very handy for Frost tanks since they might substitute for Rune Strike, but not a Blood tank I think.

World of Warcraft

I dropped the Necrosis (same reason: few autoattacks) for Improved Icy Touch.

[smiling_bandit]

Sunova.

Ok, maybe Scent of Blood does work, since it apparently will work with Rune Strikes. Geez, could Blizzard have made this any more twisted? Just update the tooltip already!

[Jragon]

Winterhawk, do you use Rune Strike when it procs, or just not bother?

Also, I can’t figure out how to get tanking gear, I’m DPS and by the time I have the badges for tank gear I find a nicer DPS badge reward.

[Infovore]

@Jragon

Winterhawk, do you use Rune Strike when it procs, or just not bother?

Oh, definitely. I have it macroed into several of my main strikes to make sure I’m always using it when it procs. It’s the primary runic power dump for Blood tanks (Death Coil is second). If you don’t want to macro it (there are rare times when you don’t want to just use it indiscriminately, but I never worry about it and haven’t had a problem) you can use something like Power Auras to let you know when it procs and just hit it then.

Also, I can’t figure out how to get tanking gear, I’m DPS and by the time I have the badges for tank gear I find a nicer DPS badge reward.

A really good place to start gathering tanking gear is ToC5 (normal and heroic). Some really nice starter tank gear drops there (including what’s still one of the best tank trinkets in the game–The Black Heart). Just tell the group that you’re going to roll Need on anything the tank doesn’t want because you’re building a set. You can do this in the ICC5 instances too. Between these, you can get quite a nice tank set that will be fine for tanking heroics.

Next thing to do is try to get into a ToC10 pug, and tell them the same thing: that you’re rolling on tank gear that the tank doesn’t want. Many tanks already have that gear (or better) so you might get lucky and pick up some good upgrades.

Good luck!

[Skammer]

Or you can just collect all the +crit leather gear you can find!