World of Warcraft General Discussion

[Ferret_Herder]

Skammer: Yeah, I forgot that they specifically mention spellpower over all as a feature of Disc gearing due to the lack of Spiritual Guidance. Just read the first (very long) post in the thread; the rest is a long history of discussion, and the first post gets edited and updated as a result of discussion points.

I recently un-spec’d out of my secondary spec of Holy into Shadow for DPSing randoms, but I’m sure I’ll pick up Holy again for getting back into ICC10.

I haven’t raided in quite a while because I’ve been annoyed with it. I agreed to come along on a guild TOC10 raid last night as they desperately needed either a healer or a tank, so I went as my priest. Because of that, we ended up having two disc priests each healing their RL husbands who were tanking. (All together now - Awwww. ) It was very easy until we got to the Faction Champs who were just bitchy, and it came down to our two tanks (pally and bear) versus their DK and hunter. Damn, that fight took forever.

Then we had some issues with Anub’Arak. My husband (the pally) was tanking adds, the other (druid) was tanking Anub. I again noticed what I thought was a glitch in my Grid setup - I had it configured so that if the “can’t re-shield yet” debuff was still on the target, it would light up a little side square to let me know. I had noticed during the rest of the raid that it only seemed to be showing my casts and not the other priest’s. So after the wipe on Anub, before we tried again, I asked her if she was shielding, because my Grid seemed to be only showing mine, and she said she was. Engage Anub again and - oh look, I see indicators popping up that I wasn’t casting. And we won that time!

This gal is a sweetheart, but… she’s kinda spacey. And we’ve heard at various times that she’s watching TV while being a main raid healer. Now I’m not going to defend my lack of raiding, and at least she’s going when I’m not, but… yeah. A Disc priest should always be throwing out Power Word: Shield on, at the very least, the main tank. :smack:

[Mister_Rik]

@2sense

On the map the “front” entrance is on the right. I’m not sure if that was designed to be the place to start but that’s the door we always went in back when people actually travelled to dungeons and that’s where you start on a random run. The “back” entrance is the one nearest the graveyard so people go in there pretty often after they die. It’s not tough to find when you are alive. It’s just across the way from the “front”.

Thanks. I spent enough time in the vicinity of Gundrak while questing in Zul’Drak that I knew there were two of those square outbuildings in front, so yeah, if somebody had simply told me, “You came in the wrong entrance”, I would have figured out pretty quickly to check the other outbuilding. Back when I was questing there I remember flying up to the front of the big main structure and finding it really odd that there was no entrance (and I still think the entrance placement is really strange), but eventually I found one of the entrances. So knowing the entrance was in one of those outbuildings, I didn’t have to look very far after I died. I just didn’t know, obviously, that there were two.

The thing to remember about random dungeons is that if you go in the wrong entrance it’s not a big deal. Just use the “Teleport Out Of Dungeon” feature (on the bottom left side of the minimap) and then teleport back. That will take you to the entrance your random started at. Unfortunately you can’t do this while you are dead and hunting for a door… any door.

This is very good to remember - thanks again. I guess it’s sort of like when my random group the other day, after wiping twice in HoR, decided to queue for a different dungeon (which we got immediately, being a full group), I just had to re-enter HoR to rez, then click “Teleport to Dungeon”, which sent me straight from HoR to HoL.

I’m pretty sure I know where all the other dungeon entrances are. I found most of them while exploring and questing a long time ago, even if I never entered them. The ones I didn’t already know before the RDF put me in them were the second Gundrak entrance, FoS/PoS/HoR, Nexus/Oculus, and Utgarde Pinnacle (though that one was easy enough to find when the time came). For Nexus/Oculus, the first time I had to run back I was in a group with three friends from my server, so when we wiped I was able to follow them back (if it hadn’t been a wipe, my healer friend would have just rezzed me).

I see I’m going to have to specifically queue for An’Kahet one of these days. I only need one boss in there (Jedaga, or whatever her name is) for the achievement and the Northrend Dungeonmaster meta. Thing is, the RDF has put me in there like four times, and the first three times I was dropped into “in-progress” runs after that boss was already down; the fourth time I came in at the beginning, but then died on that boss and apparently released when I shouldn’t have, because I didn’t get credit for her :smack: And since then, the RDF has completely ignored both of those Nerubian instances for me. I seem to be getting Gundrak, UK, UP, and HoL all the time.

Oh, and is it just me who gets exasperated with Jaina when the pursuit sequence in HoR starts? She ice-blocks the LK and says something like, “Go quickly! The spell will only hold him for a short time!” And then she just stands there until the spell expires! :rolleyes:

[Tom_Scud]

@Mister_Rik

I see I’m going to have to specifically queue for An’Kahet one of these days. I only need one boss in there (Jedaga, or whatever her name is) for the achievement and the Northrend Dungeonmaster meta.

In that case, make sure to tell the tank that you need to kill that boss for the achievement; a lot of times, groups will do only the first two bosses (the big bug with the Guardians and the vampire guy) plus the last guy (the Lovecrafty guy who does the “Insanity” thing) and skip the other two bosses.

[Daedelus]

@Skammer

After considering it for a long time, I’m finally going to drop my Shadow off-spec for Disc. This will give me greater raid flexibility, especially in fights like Saurfang where I’ve struggled keeping one or two main targets alive.

1. Can someone link me to the recommended 3.3 Disc spec?
2. What do I need to know about healing as Disc vs. Holy? I know PW:Shield will be my bread and butter, but I already pretty much keep the tank shielded as much as possible. PoM looks important, but I already use that on every cooldown as well. PoH is there, and Penance – are those the main healing tools for Disc? I think I understand that while Holy is about healing damage, Disc is more about mitigating damage, is that right?
3. Is my holy gear sufficient for healing in Disc as an off-spec? It probably has more spirit than I would need (over 1000) and I’m worried about the lack of spellpower due to not having Spiritual Guidance.

Any Disc priests who can give me some advice?

@Ferret_Herder

Disc healer here - I typically follow whatever the Elitist Jerks main priest healing thread has to say on the subject.

One big change may be that you might have too much haste. They recommend no more than 11% haste. You proc a haste-ing talent called Borrowed Time whenever you use Power Word: Shield (which will be often), so more haste is wasteful. Use that to speed up GHeal (tank) or PoHealing (group). Penance is a new fun spell and will be a big healer for you. Insta-cast channeled heal which can be used as an attack if you’re bored.

The cooldown on PW:S is great, too. You’ll find yourself wanting to bubble the whole group.

Definitely some good tips here, however, I highly disagree with EJ on their valuation of Haste for Disc at certain gear levels (there is actually another thread in the priest forums about valuing haste as a priest, which is a great read as well). Focusing on Haste when you’re initially gearing up is definitely not a great idea. As I wrote in another post on this thread, you want to focus on Int/Crit until your PW:Shield (when it’s absorbed fully) returns the mana you used to cast it (if not more). The break even point is around 26.6k mana. After that, you want to focus on getting crit until it’s around 30% unbuffed, as this increases Divine Aegis procs, which are a huge boon on anyone you cast a direct heal on (including PoH). However, after this point, I see no reason not to get a bunch of haste in order to make all of your heals cast faster (FH,Penance, PoH). You will not always have Borrowed Time up, and sometimes it is not feasible to constantly alternate between PW:Shield and a heal (which you would need to do in order to keep the benefit of BT on all heals). One tip is to use Penance before you use FH/GH/PoH with Borrowed Time, as Penance does not consume the buff.

Overall, I see the biggest difference between Holy and Disc is that instead of CoH being the CD you base your spell rotation around, it’s Penance. Basically, it is important on you to keep Weakened Soul, Inspiration and Grace on the tank at all times (that they are taking damage). Otherwise, the rest of your party/raid can be kept up with PW:Shield/PoM/FH for the most part. Another tip is to make sure that if you’re going to be casting a direct heal on a non-tank, to make sure that Penance is available so that you can re-stack Grace to 3 with a single Penance cast on the tank. This isn’t always possible, but try to do it so that you don’t drop Grace off the tank (more important in a raid than in a party, for sure). Otherwise, use your CDs regularly and bribe caster DPS for your Power Infusion (it’s such an amazing buff on a 1 minute CD). Know which parts of a fight Pain Suppression will be useful for, and don’t hesitate to use it (2 minute CD is fairly short). Not sure what else you may be looking for as far as advice goes, but please let me know if you have any questions. I love my Disc priest (2nd favorite type of healer) and play her quite often.

@Mekhazzio

Even as someone who’s repeatedly said we got through Ulduar hard modes on the back of our disc priest, I’d recommend sticking with Holy for Saurfang. He’s a fight where your focus is just sheer, raw throughput. Not spikes, not surprises, not target swaps, not AOE. He just picks someone and beats them the hell down. Disc doesn’t have a lot in the way of throughput. Penance is on a cooldown, shielding the same person is on a cooldown, renew and mending and greater heal are substantially weaker, and as good as Borrowed Time is, when your goal is bombing fat gheals when they’re needed, Serendipity stomps all over Borrowed Time.

Heroic Saurfang needs an absolutely disgusting amount of raw healing power and that’s just not Disc’s niche. Arthas, on the other hand…now -that’s- a disc fight.

I completely disagree with this post outside of the Arthas fight being a Disc fight. Discipline priests are absolutely integral to defeating Heroic Saurfang for multiple reasons.

1. Neither Disc nor Holy priests should heal Marks. Holy paladins with Beacon can keep up two Marks at a time and are absolutely the best healer for this job. If, and only if, you do not have a paladin/druid/shaman in your 10-man raid comp and must heal Marks (again, just not a great job for the class in general), then I suppose Holy would be a superior spec. But a 10-man raid running 2 priests as their main healers on Heroic mode ICC is pretty rare and a rough comp to be successful with in general (though it can be done). Neither spec has much sustained burst healing on a single target, and (IMO) are fundamentally raid healers (druids, arguably, can put out more HPS on a single target than priests - for example, look at the amount of priests that take portals on the Valithria Dreamwalker fight).

2. PW:Shield is absolutely HUGE in preventing Blood Power generation. Putting shields on anyone with Boiling Blood can reduce one tick on every person who gets Boiling Blood. That increases the amount of time before the first and subsequent Marks go out (though it’s much more noticeable on the first), which reduces the total Marks for the fight and makes it much easier for healers to heal it through the end. This can make total marks be closer to 5-6 instead of 6-7, which may seems like a small amount on paper but is very much the difference between a wipe and a kill.

3. Holy does not have much benefit in this fight, outside of Guardian Spirit (though Pain Suppression is close to GS’s utility on this fight, IMO). Empowered Renew specs bring nothing to the table outside of a HoT on Marks/BB/tanks, CoH is useless due to the raid having to spread out for Blood Nova, and all their other tools are covered by a Disc priest, but the Disc priest has the added utility of a PW:Shield that can be cast every GCD. Moreover, Disc priests are able to get Inspiration/Grace up on tanks very quickly with Penance. Inspiration reduces 10% of damage on tanks AND Marks. Moreover, if you get Inspiration (or Ancestral Fortitude from a shaman) on the Marks as well, this allows you to double dip that damage reduction, meaning that Marks will take 81% damage.

So, basically, I see Disc priests as hugely important for this fight, to the point that we make our Holy priest re-spec Disc just for this reason. Getting shields out on the raid reduces BP generation from both Blood Nova and Boiling Blood, which leads to less Marks, which leads to an easier time for healing (which is the hardest part of the fight). Both Holy and Disc bring Inspiration to the table, Disc just brings better Shields and Grace, as well as Penance which gets these effects up more reliably and quickly than FH spam. I am not sure how your guild runs it where Holy priests are seen as the better spec, but I am open to hearing about it. Although we have killed Saurfang on Heroic multiple times in 25-man, it still causes us trouble and we are trying to work out ways to make it go smoother each week. If you have no issues on this fight and are doing it as Holy, I’d love to hear what your arguments are for that on a raid-wide scale (not just because Holy has better sustained single-target HPS). Thanks in advance.

[Mister_Rik]

@Ferret_Herder

This gal is a sweetheart, but… she’s kinda spacey. And we’ve heard at various times that she’s watching TV while being a main raid healer.

Heh. I ran FoS yesterday and the group was having way more trouble with it than I’ve usually experienced in that one. I’d queued with my druid healer friend, and later on we figured out the problems: the tank was lagging badly, the hunter was trying to watch a movie, and my druid healer friend was actually being played by her boyfriend — who normally plays a priest — while she was trying to fix his computer . No wonder it was so rough.

Anyway, I hit 48 Frosts yesterday, so I decided to queue for a random heroic this morning, hoping I could get it in before work. Fortunately, I got UK, which is the easiest/quickest for me. Got my last 2 Frosts, which gave me enough to upgrade my cloak, which was the first thing on my list of pieces to upgrade: Might of the Ocean Serpent!

Belt and boots are next …

[Mekhazzio]

[QUOTE=Daedelus;12376373But a 10-man raid running 2 priests as their main healers on Heroic mode ICC is pretty rare and a rough comp to be successful with in general (though it can be done).[/quote]
And that’s my raid comp and the perspective I’m coming from. Yes, obviously holy paladins are going to be amazing on the fight, so much so that when our warrior is around, my main tank paladin straps on healing gear to git er done, but getting carried by paladins is a bit off the topic of how you power through it as a priest.

2. PW:Shield is absolutely HUGE in preventing Blood Power generation.

They patched this out a little while ago, alas. Before then, yes, it was incredibly huge. Now BOP/bubble/etc is the only counter (again with the paladins)

Empowered Renew specs bring nothing to the table outside of a HoT on Marks/BB/tanks, CoH is useless due to the raid having to spread out for Blood Nova, and all their other tools are covered by a Disc priest

…but not as well. Mending’s reduced cooldown is giant for a mark in melee, the beefier renew gets you more padding on the people that need it, the bigger gheals make for larger bombs, and Serendipity means a fast gheal is always ready without the prep GCD of a shield.

If by “empowered renew spec” you mean that gimmicky thing floating around lately where people spec around doing nothing but pretending they’re a druid in a 25-man raid, I can certainly share the seething hate for that one with you

[Quasimodem]

… as well as in my brain, apparently. I can see into my computer from the side and I can see some cobwebs floating around in there.

If I found a small enough attachment could I vacuum those out?

I have two rubber gasket type open-port things in the back I could stick something into, but wanted to check with y’all before I do anything stupid.

Thanks

Q

[lizardling]

@Quasimodem

… as well as in my brain, apparently. I can see into my computer from the side and I can see some cobwebs floating around in there.

If I found a small enough attachment could I vacuum those out?

I have two rubber gasket type open-port things in the back I could stick something into, but wanted to check with y’all before I do anything stupid.

Thanks

Q

Don’t do it. Vaccuum cleaners + computers is a bad combination.

If you really want to clean out the dust, buy a can of canned air instead. This will be much less liable to result in static shocks that can damage your computer.

[Quasimodem]

Well, I thought of doing that, lizardling, but then I thought, well, they’d still be IN there, right, just not hanging?

I also have a long-haired cat who stays in the room where my computer is, and I regularly have to clean the vents off so the thing doesn’t overheat. (The computer, not the cat)

Thanks

Q

[Skammer]

Thanks for the priest discussion. I’ve healed the Saurfang fight a few times as Holy, but usually with a paladin healing the Marks. I’ve just had trouble with my gheals landing quickly enough (again with my lack of haste).

My mana pool is over 30k, my crit is about 27% (with Holy Specialization). I don’t recall my unbuffed spellpower but I think it is between 2900-3000 (with Inner Fire).

I plan to stay Holy for most fights, but sometimes raids are looking for a pug for single target heals (whether for Saurfang or some other fight) and although I’ll never match a paladin for that, it seems like Disc would have the advantage over Holy. Anyway, it will be worth it to try.

[Quasimodem]

1. I go to Northshire to recruit and I keep getting messages that my “gear sucks”.

Okay, how do I make my gear NOT suck?

And another one:

2. Someone in Red Ridge (where I was getting my skinning level up) asked me to help with some quests, and then she stopped and told me I was getting her killed more than I was helping her?

We grouped, set loot to uncommon, and I went in for the kill and told her to loot!

WHAT THE FUCK, MAN!

What the mother-fuckin’ fuck?

Jesus H. Christ! Am I just a useless piece of shit, even in a GAME???

[shinto46]

@Quasimodem

1. I go to Northshire to recruit and I keep getting messages that my “gear sucks”.

Okay, how do I make my gear NOT suck?

And another one:

2. Someone in Red Ridge (where I was getting my skinning level up) asked me to help with some quests, and then she stopped and told me I was getting her killed more than I was helping her?

We grouped, set loot to uncommon, and I went in for the kill and told her to loot!

WHAT THE FUCK, MAN!

What the mother-fuckin’ fuck?

Jesus H. Christ! Am I just a useless piece of shit, even in a GAME???

You don’t want people like this in your guild Quasi. Consider yourself lucky you didn’t invite them and have them take advantage of you.

[Quasimodem]

I’m just so unsure of myself.

No I didn’t invite them into the guild, either one, but I thought FOR SURE that if you saw a 10 who needed help and you grouped with her and let her loot, then for sure she’d know to let me go in for the kill and let her get her quest stuff?

JESUS, I’m a 71!

I thought I could help someone.

See? I don’t know how this shit works!

[lizardling]

@Quasimodem

Well, I thought of doing that, lizardling, but then I thought, well, they’d still be IN there, right, just not hanging?

I also have a long-haired cat who stays in the room where my computer is, and I regularly have to clean the vents off so the thing doesn’t overheat. (The computer, not the cat)

Thanks

Q

When it’s time for me to clean out my computer like that, I turn off the computer and disconnect everything but the power cord. I ground myself by touching a metal part of the case, then unplug it and carefully lay the case on its side. Then I crack the case open and go to town with canned air. Then I close it back up and connect everything back up and turn it on to make sure everything’s still working.

Just don’t lose the screws holding the siding on the case. You may have to do a little tinkering to figure out how to get the siding off. In general, all cases I’ve touched have siding that’s kind of grooved in, so you slide it toward the back a little before it comes loose and you can lift it off.

When in doubt, do not attempt brute force.

[Daedelus]

@Mekhazzio

And that’s my raid comp and the perspective I’m coming from. Yes, obviously holy paladins are going to be amazing on the fight, so much so that when our warrior is around, my main tank paladin straps on healing gear to git er done, but getting carried by paladins is a bit off the topic of how you power through it as a priest.
They patched this out a little while ago, alas. Before then, yes, it was incredibly huge. Now BOP/bubble/etc is the only counter (again with the paladins)
…but not as well. Mending’s reduced cooldown is giant for a mark in melee, the beefier renew gets you more padding on the people that need it, the bigger gheals make for larger bombs, and Serendipity means a fast gheal is always ready without the prep GCD of a shield.

If by “empowered renew spec” you mean that gimmicky thing floating around lately where people spec around doing nothing but pretending they’re a druid in a 25-man raid, I can certainly share the seething hate for that one with you

Well, I never considered the topic to be about powering through Saurfang with only priest healers. I thought the topic was whether a Holy or a Disc priest was better for the fight, and I still think Disc priests are superior, unless they are running a comp like yours, which is a rarity.

Do you have a reference for where they patched out PW:Shield preventing BP gain? I was still under the impression that this worked (and has been part of our strat for a month+ now). If that is the case, then it will make me have to revisit our guild’s strat. Regardless, we never use priests on Marks outside of putting up Inspiration on Marks/tanks. They essentially become our BB/tank support healers as paladins take over.

And yes, “Empowered Renew spec” definitely refers to the priests that should just re-roll druids.

[Quasimodem]

@lizardling

When it’s time for me to clean out my computer like that, I turn off the computer and disconnect everything but the power cord. I ground myself by touching a metal part of the case, then unplug it and carefully lay the case on its side. Then I crack the case open and go to town with canned air. Then I close it back up and connect everything back up and turn it on to make sure everything’s still working.

Just don’t lose the screws holding the siding on the case. You may have to do a little tinkering to figure out how to get the siding off. In general, all cases I’ve touched have siding that’s kind of grooved in, so you slide it toward the back a little before it comes loose and you can lift it off.

When in doubt, do not attempt brute force.

You’re fucking kidding me, right?

I can’t even remember what frickin’ day it is until I hit the time thing on the bottom right hand side which shows me all that, or I ask my wife.

I’m sorry. I’m being unfair to you, lizardling, but you see, these days I don’t have 2 grey cells to rub together anymore unless I see something written down in front of me.

I don’t have the “wherewithal” to do all that computer-shit anymore. I just want the cobwebs gone so it won’t break down.

Sucks to be me, I guess!

Q

[Mekhazzio]

@Daedelus

Do you have a reference for where they patched out PW:Shield preventing BP gain?

The relevant blue post. It managed to get missed by both the patch notes and the hotfix lists, so it’s buried into a random forum thread instead. I only caught it because I check MMO-Champion regularly.

[lizardling]

@Quasimodem

I don’t have the “wherewithal” to do all that computer-shit anymore. I just want the cobwebs gone so it won’t break down.

Sucks to be me, I guess!

Q

Sorry Quas’, you ran into my “answer question with thesis” reflex and got critted. (I have got to stop doing that… ) You’re clearing the vents off though, which is good.

The important question: is your computer actively overheating and dying when you try to use it? If it’s not, then a few cobwebs aren’t going to be a big deal and you don’t need to worry about it.

[Infovore]

@Quasimodem

1. I go to Northshire to recruit and I keep getting messages that my “gear sucks”.

Okay, how do I make my gear NOT suck?

And another one:

2. Someone in Red Ridge (where I was getting my skinning level up) asked me to help with some quests, and then she stopped and told me I was getting her killed more than I was helping her?

We grouped, set loot to uncommon, and I went in for the kill and told her to loot!

WHAT THE FUCK, MAN!

What the mother-fuckin’ fuck?

Jesus H. Christ! Am I just a useless piece of shit, even in a GAME???

Quasi, don’t worry about it. Many people in game are classic examples of the Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory–just ignore them. They’re idiots.

If you did want a couple of suggestions for how to fix your gear (which you’re under no obligation to do, of course–if you’re having fun, then there’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing) then here’s what I would suggest:

1. Your gloves are not designed for a warrior, since they have Intellect and Spellpower on them, both useless stats for you. Check the Auction House for plate gloves with Strength and Stamina (ideally) or Strength and Agility. Attack Power is also a good stat for you.

2. Your boots have Intellect on them too. Look for AH boots or quest rewards that have Str and Stam on them. While it isn’t ideal, you’d be better off with Mail or Leather boots with Str/Stam/Agi on them than Plate ones with Intellect.

3. Your first ring has Nature Resistance on it. This isn’t terrible, but not very useful. See if you can find something in the AH or a quest reward with Str/Stam/Agi/Attack Power on it.

Like I said, there’s no requirement that you make any changes. As long as you’re completing quests successfully, you’re doing fine. WoW is very forgiving of nonoptimal gear–I know this because I had no idea what I was doing with my first toon (a rogue) but he still managed to kill stuff.

So don’t worry about the idiots! Just put them on ignore and go on having fun.

[Daedelus]

@Mekhazzio

The relevant blue post. It managed to get missed by both the patch notes and the hotfix lists, so it’s buried into a random forum thread instead. I only caught it because I check MMO-Champion regularly.

Ah, I see. I check MMO-Champion regularly as well, and I still missed this. Thanks for the information.