If you go back and watch the first inning, it was clearly Rodgers worst inning, and not only did Pudge give the ball repeatedly to the home plate umpire, but the ball was switched out a number of time.
Most importantly though, who cares? He didn’t have a run scored on him before or after so it clearly didn’t matter.
I care. I’m not a huge baseball fan, but I certainly care when someone is cheating, even if said cheating doesn’t help him. If I cheated on an exam at school, and still did worse than average, I bet my professors would care. If I broke into your house but didn’t steal anything, I bet you’d care. A baseball pitcher (allegedly) cheating is no different to me.
You care if he may have had something on his hand for three outs, but clearly got rid of it for the other 21 outs?
It seems to me that if there’s something unfair, it’s speculating about something that was definitely not an issue for seven of eight inning of the game.
Of course. If he used pine tar, it’s cheating. And I know that it wasn’t an issue for 7 of Rogers’ 8 innings, and he pitched a magnificent game. But in the first inning, there is a fair amount of evidence that he cheated, especially when ESPN showed pictures of his ALDS and ALCS hands with identical markings. There is still a possibility that he wasn’t cheating, and I’ll give him every benefit of the doubt.
But if he did cheat in the first inning, which I believe he did, I fail to see how the fact that he pitched 7 great innings afterwards changes the fact that he cheated in the first. And cheaters should be punished. If MLB finds that Rogers used pine tar, he shouldn’t be allowed to pitch again in the World Series. I thought that viewing any cheating as unacceptable was a pretty universal belief of sports fans, so I’m not really used to having to justify my concern.
Because you’re already impinging his credibility based on nothing, and have in fact, already determined that it was pine tar.
It’s BS. The speculation is unfair, and unwarranted. They can do nothing about it, there is no evidence that it was anything, and it didn’t effect his pitching. And that is why: “Who cares”.
Any foreign substance can help in different ways. . .you can get a different grip. It can create a funny aerodynamic effect, your finger can “slip” on the ball in an advantageous way.
It can be anything like that.
I’d actually like to see a major leaguer sometime go out with a camera in controlled circumstances and see just what he can do with a doctored ball.
By the way, did anyone see the ball that that hit Sean Casey hit Molina in the nuts. On one replay it looked like it hit him straight-on, deflected straight down into the dirt, and then bounced up and caught the underside of his nuts.
Verdict’s still out on whether it was better or worse than CLinton Portis taking a helmet to his nuts and then walking off the field grabbing his balls.
The photos would indicate that he cheated when pitching against the Yankees and A’s earlier in the playoffs.
I can’t change the outcome, no. And there is evidence that it was something. Namely, the fact that he had an identical smudge on his hands in his previous 2 postseason starts. Obviously that’s not conclusive, but it is evidence. And again, whether or not it affected his pitching, cheating is unacceptable. If you disagree about that, then I really have nothing more to say.
IF he was cheating. Considering how often the umpire checks the ball during the course of the game, including the times he gets to it before the catcher (usually from foul tips), KR must have a doctorate in doctoring.
From the King Kaufman column at Salon:
Sports fans don’t care about cheating. They care about theater. Half the league has been on steroids for the last two decades, and no one cares because power hitters are good theater.
It’s the postseason. Small sample sizes are the norm. Not everyone’s Tom Glavine or Mariano Rivera, with close to 100 IP in the postseason.
The Cardinal hitters were complaining about strange movement on the ball, and it looked to me like Rogers’s fastball picked up some movement that I hadn’t seen before.
As far as TLR being in on it, there’s a pretty interesting theory being kicked around. Leyland worked for the Cardinals until taking the Tigers job, and he and TLR are good friends. Presumably, he would know things the Cardinals might be doing that are less than completely within the rules. It’s not unreasonable to think that they might have worked out an agreement to not complain too loudly about things the other side is doing.
Of course he cheated. It is obvious. After he washed his hands they just pounded him all over the park.What more proof is needed. He was under big surveilance after the ist inning. His much poorer pitching proved it.
What ,it didnt work that way.? Could it be this is more crying. whaaaaaaa
Well it sure is nice to see how many people here have already decided that he cheated, and that is that. It doesn’t matter what the Umpires say, and it doesn’t matter what the opposing Manger says. After all; why would Fox lie? I mean, they have no vested interest in increasing their ratings.
I can tell you that I have the *exact same * smudges on hands every time I do the exact same work. Weird isn’t it.
Nobody cares about steroids? Then why is there constant discussion of steroids all over the news and sports radio? Why does everybody hate Barry Bonds?
gonzomax, it’d be nice if you looked a little more closely at this thread if you’re going to bother posting. The fact that the same clump of dirt appeared on Rogers’ hand in multiple games is just a little suspicious.
That’s a nice little conspiracy theory, but it can apply to nearly any two teams in baseball. They all use essentially the same tricks over and over. They all know the same tricks because the knowledge gets passed along with every trade. While I won’t say that I condone cheating, it goes on in every game in every sport, and by watching and cheering for sports, I’m effectively condoning cheating. Therefore, I won’t get into any holier-than-thou snit when people are actually caught, not suspected, as happened to Shawn Merriman.
So I guess ESPN is just run by whiny Yankee and A’s fans who found the same thing on his hand in both of his other starts.
Please explain why there was no change in his game after he washed his hands, If he had cheated there would have been a change in his pitching. He said it was dirt. Washed off no differernce. You say he was dirty before, So. If he was cheating ,his pitching would have changed. That is the end point of the argument… See his pitching got worse proving he cheated before too. But since it didnt you have no logic on your side.
sorry. I just logiced out that if this time was clearly proven to be not true,then it would also apply to previous dirty hands. Thanks for reading for me.
Are you telling me that if he cleaned his hand in earlier games his pitching would have suffered, Show the sense to that.
He pitched same before dirt as after. Proof.
Let’s see… in 3 postseason starts this year, Kenny Rogers has suddenly become Christy Mathewson. In 3 postseason starts this year, there is proof that he had pine tar on his pitching hand.
Pretty damning evidence if you ask me.
A extra wrinkle: ESPN uniform guru Paul Lukas points out an interesting tidbit: Rogers doesn’t wear the same style cap as everyone else. Instead of the standard-issue New Era 5950 with gray underbill, Rogers wears a batting practice cap with a black underbill. If I were going to hide an illegal substance somewhere on my uniform, it would be on a dark surface, like the pocket of a black glove or the black underbill of a hat.
I’m not being the grammar police but if you mean “In what way was it tolerated” I have three words for you. Gay Lord Perry. Ok thats two words. But he cheated his entire career and they put him in the Hall of Fame. How about Phil Neikro? Same thing. The spitter has been illegal for a lot of years but it has always been part of the game. If you can get away with it, it is not only tolerated but they might put you in the Hall of Fame.
Proof of pine tar? Please elaborate!