The most powerful country in the world is the most hated country in the world. News at 11.
Yes, they already “hated freedom” before the invasion of Iraq, didn’t they? If the US is hated already, I guess it has nothing to lose by waging wars of aggression based on false premises.
To follow that reasoning: is the 2nd most powerful country the 2nd most hated?
Moderator’s Warning: Directing the “Putz” smiley at a fellow poster in Great Debates is against the rules. Don’t do that again.
My apologies for the smiley.
I still maintain the post was quite unneccessary and in extremely bad taste.
Take it up with Shodan. His chosen analogy.
Bush the 2d got re-elected because of the religious right and the Catholis who wanted the supreme court changed so it could do away with abortion. Had that not been an issue he would not be in office today.
Bush 1 didn’t get elected because of the economy and the state it was in
. Now that there is no chance of No. 2 running again his numbers are the lowest ever and he has done most of what the religious right wanted him to do.
Monavis
In answer to the OP;I beleive the poor pople of the world see the USA as a rich country, they see the people having what looks like a rich life,big homes, cars, etc. They do not realize that most of it is not paid for and should the economy drop much they would all be out in the street. What isn’t paid for isn’t owned. Few have savings accounts large enough to cover their debts.The poor countries have people living in conditions worse than our slums and have no hope of getting out. Some of the South American countries were promised big things from our businees men then their governments made the deals and non(or little) of the money went to help the poor. Sadly there is more wasted in our country now than some countries will ever have.
Even though there is the claim, that we are running out of energy,people are bulding even larger homes(some have 3 people living in a 5 bedroom home 5 bath), We keep putting up amusement parks etc. All taking unnecessary energy.
When I toured Europe I was embarressed at some of the Americans in our group that complained that things were not like in the USA, instead of being grateful for our country, one couple kept saying," they are going to have to change"! We were guests in their countries and we were treated with utmost respect in most places where we went.
It isn’t unusual for the poor to envy the rich. We used to be a country that honored the hard working man. Now, we honor people as celeberties that do little except entertain and would gladly spend a great deal of money to see some person sing,act or play some game, but would resent trying to pay a third of that same money to help the less fourtunate.
Monavis
I know. Thing is, I had a hard time coming up with a “well known” nation or empire that had, throughout its history, been a benevolent force. France, England, the Holy Roman Empire, these are indeed better analogues of the USA, as they also threw their weight around and were led and populated by folks who felt entitled to do so. It’s tough to come up with any example of a real Power that hasn’t used it at some point to cause unjust harm out of self-interest. It’s likewise tough to think of one that hasn’t acted primarily out of self-interest, to the point of aggression towards any and all they could dominate should self-interest be impeded.
Probably not, but it can be ignored as simply one more obnoxious, content-free comment.
On the other hand, using the putz smiley is a direct personal insult and is not to be directed toward other posters outside of the Pit.
[ /Moderating ]
The fact that other nations would do the same if they could get away with it means little to America’s critics.
Americans find themselves damned either way. If they remain within their own borders, they are isolationist hicks who are shirking their responsibilities. If they intervene, they are rapacious imperialists.
No offence, Chowder, to you or the columnist at the Sunday Telegraph, but I don’t believe America is the most hated country at all.
OK. Who is?
Let’s just say that when I go abroad, I usually present myself as an American.
Do you think that was true in the Cold War years? Really?
I think it was probably a toss up between the US and the USSR as to who was most hated. And you know what! :smack: It was probably a toss up as to who was most powerful as well. :eek:
Interesting how that works out, ehe?
-XT
Just for the record, America was not a super power before WWII. If it wasn’t for Churchill and the Brits we’d be eating sauerkraut and rice. At the very least we would have suffered a substantial land war. I don’t want to dismiss the American contribution to the war but it was the British who made it possible with the hard fought gift of time.
We exist and are successful today because of our British heritage. If you look at all the English speaking nations that were spawned from the British Empire there is a common thread of success. The laws and customs handed down have carried us all far. Many of the greatest achievements have come from these nations and in this light I do not expect the sun to set on the British Empire for a long time.
While history likes to paint the cold war as a conflict between the 2 “super powers” it was much more than that. When US political debate shut down spy-plane activity it was GB who picked up the mission and flew deep into Russian territory. The use of Canberra bombers to map and photograph the terrain are legendary. The member nations of NATO made that possible.
The other side of that coin is that we don’t take the rantings of 3rd world countries seriously. We know the money is going down the “rat hole of good intentions” but that’s always going to be the case. I guess we’re willing to let Karma sort it out.
And while I’m thinking about it, I’ve never taken opinion polls seriously if they are being used to sell newspapers. Actions have always spoken louder than words and the voice of Europe can more accurately be measured by voting trends. Since 1999, seven of the fifteen EU governments (Denmark, France, Portugal, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Greece) shifted in composition from left to right-wing. For all the anti-American/Anti-Bush rhetoric there is a commonality of thought regarding world events.
People from all nations want the same basic things in life (well the sane one’s do). They want freedom, physical security, economic peace of mind and a cohesive sense of culture. When the most powerful nation on earth takes a half-trillion dollar hit to its economy due to terrorism (and bounces back) there is an undeniable level of respect for that. While other nations struggle with unemployment and high taxes the United States does not, despite fighting 2 wars concurrently and sustaining huge economic losses from multiple hurricanes. Newspaper polls may have the force of opinion but voting at the polls has the force of law.
I think I would have to agree that the general lumping together of all americans is unfair when really it is the policies of the government that people around the world hate. As a foreigner with family in the states, we feel that the US media distorts much of what is going on around the world, so that the american public do not see what we see. We see atrocities committed, for example in lebanon at the moment and on the american media we see it being reported slanted in a direction as a set up, that it didn’t really happen. A notable example was Qana - we saw a report in the media that one of the babies being carried o ut had rigamortus already, and that hezbollah planted it there for effect! This was reported in the US media. It puts doubts into the minds of americans, so that they can not become too irate about what their government does or regimes that it supports, which invariably after some time usually turn against the US.
We see the americans as being really “propagandised” if that’s the word. We feel they don’t really see the truth. The US government interferes with the running of other nations internal affairs, clandestinely for its own ends. Recently with the announcement of Cuba’s leader being ill. We heard “Condi’s crystals” saying that the US hopes Cubans will seek democratic means" - we were all sitting around the table when it came on the news. Everyone going, “oh here we go again america sticking its nose in somewhere else” - Please god let them leave them alone, more trouble!
So if you wanted to know - that’s it! I guess everyone is sick of america telling the rest of the world how to bake its own cookies. You see because in some parts of the world we call them biscuits! We are different from you and we are happy to be different from you. It is the interference for its own gain that others hate. We don’t see america helping for humanitarian only reasons. Its always for some hidden agenda. If america is so gung ho on freedom and democracy - why do you never hear about the congo where 4 million have been slaughtered in the last ten years there. There’s no oil there, or anything else for that matter. However, no other nation is doing much of anything either, except for organisations like doctors without borders.
The american people I’m sure are a good lot, but we wish you would stand up and tell your government how you want them to behave. Make them accountable for your reputation overseas. God bless you all
I suppose it never occured to you that perhaps, just perhaps mind you, your own media may not be without bias…
Naw, couldn’t be. BTW, could you give me a cite for this? " A notable example was Qana - we saw a report in the media that one of the babies being carried o ut had rigamortus already, and that hezbollah planted it there for effect! This was reported in the US media." I don’t recall this being put out by the main stream media as a major gripe point. Perhaps you could show me the myriad MSM sources harping on this?
Yeah thats us…the most ‘propagandised’ people on earth. Hell, those damn American’s don’t even HAVE internet access…and all our media is in lock step, spouting the same party line across the board…
You don’t really paint with a broad brush, do you?..
Not much really to say here leaving aside your hyperbole (and the irony of you saying this if you happen to be a European). Its true…the US DOES have an agenda and we don’t do everything we do for purely humanitarian reasons. And we DO happen to think that our way is the best way…and want others to emmulate us, and do things as we do them (well, say we want them to measure up to an ideal that we are constantly striving for ourselves…but never seem to attain).
As for the Congo and other parts in Africa…well, we HAVE given quite a bit of aid. Unfortunately the only REAL way to fix things down there is by military force. And aside from our Iraqi adventure we usually aren’t too keen on direct military force…especially in something that promisses to make Iraq look like a picnic. And especially since we’d probably be going it alone if we DID so anything with reguard to that. After all, nothing preventing our European pals from doing something about whats been going on down there…its a fair piece closer to their neck of the woods than it is to the US after all.
I always find it interesting though when folks chastize the US for not going into this hell hole, but blast us for going into another…on our own. Its as if they REALLY want the US on a leash…sort of like their own private attack dog. They sayth go hither, and we go…they sayth go not there and we stay. As if The World™ knows whats REALLY best for the US and all concerned. Probably because of the totally unbiased media you guys outside the US gulag are lucky enough to possess…
-XT
hummingbird,
While your point is valid your examples were not. Hezbolla is a militia within a sovereign nation. They exist within the political structure of Lebanon and have the tacit approval to stockpile and use serious weapons of war. This was a country that was once predominately Christian and has now been usurped by Islamic interests that are connected with Syria and Iran. Depicting the “civilians” of Lebanon as innocent third party victims is a great misunderstanding of the area. They have created and maintained the situation through arms-length acceptance of neighborhood garrisons for a foreign sponsored army of terrorists.
To say we receive propaganda regarding the war (and the rest of the world does not) is the height of media arrogance. Reporters covering their side of the story have been subjected to staged interviews. That’s a reality and it’s not up for discussion. If you don’t like the war or wish to side with Hezbolla for what-ever reason then you should make your case for it starting with the attack on an Israeli military base. We are not directly involved with it beyond supporting a friendly, sovereign nation.
If you want to talk about Cuba and human rights then come to Miami and talk to Cubans who are interested in human rights. There are over a million Cubans in Miami which is about 10% of the total number in Cuba. They can give you first hand knowledge of Fidel’s brand of freedom without going to jail for it.
If you want to talk about wars regarding the US there are plenty to pick from but you’ll have to include Europe’s desire to fix Bosnia and Kosovo because we didn’t have a horse in either race. And if you want to complain about the 4 million people killed in the Congo then you’ll have to explain why you think the United States is the worlds personal police department.
I’m sure you’re right about the first statement, and, indeed, the US has often been criticized for being both isolationist and imperialist. We might consider whether or not there is a middle ground that powers and superpowers can navigate, one that involves consensus and sincere engagement with the international community to work for a common good. The philosophy of our current leadership is aggressively, unabashedly self-interested. Our own embassador to the UN has declared openly the UN should work for the US when the US wants it to, and that this is right and proper. Our leaders appear to feel international diplomacy and multilateralism are good only when they align completely with our own interests, and barely worth the trouble feigning interest in when they do not. It’s hard to imagine such a stance not harming the esteem in which we are held.