Worrying about my sister and her stock trading

My sister called to borrow a small sum to pay her car note. She also hit up my brother for utilities. We’re not supposed to tell each other about the loans, but of course, we did. Turns out she racking up quite a bit of debt between us.

She got all involved with some kind of on-line stock stuff about a year to a year and a half ago. Everytime I see her, she tells me what a great deal this stuff is and about how her ship is gonna come in ‘next week’ or ‘very soon’.

I think she’s going to lose her house and her car soon and she had a guy from some “We Buy Ugly Houses” company out a few months ago but he offered her less than what she owes on the house.

I can’t tell her what a bad idea I think all this is because than I will be “s=not suportive”.

Sad…

Jesus, times have really changed. Used to be that this type of story involved drugs, not stocks.

Gambling addiction masquerading as stock investing?

By the sound of this it’s not the first time she hit you and your brother up for funds. And it seems you knew she’d been involved in this online stocks thing (is she day-trading?) for a year and a half. So maybe stop helping her drown herself by not giving her any more money?

Do you know if she is day-trading or something else? Cash-only or margin trading? Is she working? Is she married or dating?

Incidentally, if she is day-trading, she seriously, seriously sucks at it - the DJIA, S&P, and Nasdaq are all up 14-23% over the past six months.

She’s single and unemployed. She’s hanging out on some message board and investing in some kind of medical device that is supposed to be approved by the FDA ‘any minute now’ (for the past year). I really don’t know what it is she’s involved in.

She gets upset when I mind her business but I know that she’s had her house payments delayed two times in the past year (so four months without payments), and tried to sell it to the “Ugly Houses” guy, which didn’t pan out. She managed to get a $10,000 dollar gift from a friend and has borrowed about $5,000 from family.

Today, in addition to the loans she requested yesterday, she’s said she’s gonna hock some items and hit up the previously generous friend for a loan.

My bro and I talked about declining to loan her the latest request for money, but went ahead and gave it to her last night. We aren’t supposed to know about each others loans as she specifically requests we don’t tell anyone.

I know it is stupid, but we did it anyway rather than confront her. She is totally dedicated to this stock thing to the point that she can’t even leave the house because she has to stay home all day waiting for it to “pop”. All year.

The saying with investments is that you shouldn’t invest any money you’re going to need in the next five years. If she’s investing money she needs for the rent and borrowing from lots of people, and maybe compounding that by selling stuff or her house, she’s way past that point. And on top of the bad decisions, she’s behaving obsessively. So yes, you should probably stop indulging her, sit her down, and explain that this is a problem and she needs to get her shit together. How much longer are you going to finance this? She’s not going to stop doing this if you keep paying for it.

At least you recognize that it was a gift and that you will never see any of that money again.

Shame on you for enabling your sister. With friends and family members like yourself, she definitely doesn’t have a chance of getting better.

I agree with you, Wilbo523.

If I question her at all, I get “I need you to be supportive of me right now. If you can’t be supportive of me, I won’t be able to talk with you. I just can’t have in negativity in my life right now.”

I’ve been trying to avoid that.

But I also lament the fact that I can’t speak freely with her and tell her she’s being a dumbass.

You can speak freely with her and it’s high time you did. The fact that she doesn’t want you to tell her the truth doesn’t mean you can’t do it. What you can’t do is make her listen to reason. That doesn’t mean you (and your brother, and maybe other people who are giving her money) can’t give it a shot before you say enough is enough.

A)I/We (you and brother, let her know that you know) have been supportive for the last year and can’t afford to make your payments and ours anymore.

B)I/We have been supportive for the last year, but I feel like I’m the one investing in this stock and I don’t think it’s a good investment anymore. So either sell your shares and get out or find someone else to borrow money from.

C)Tough Shit.

I’d go with “Tough Shit” She’s been lying to you. Maybe it’s time you make up a few of your own. I have no idea of your financial situation or how much you’ve given her, but would she reasonably believe that the amount you’ve loaned her has caused a hardship for you? Could you tell her that over the past year you’ve had to cut back/work more/bounced a few checks etc? And then say “I’m not going to loan you any more money and I expect to be repaid over the next year or so. End of Story”

Yeah, she’ll give you a guilt trip, but who cares. It’ll take some time, but eventually she’ll get it out of her system and come around. You’ll probably never see the money again, but you won’t be loaning her any more either.

Are you that weak? Why not? What power over you does she have? Grow a backbone and stand up for yourself.

It’s time for you and your family to say no.

If you’re not willing to confront on that, then when she asks for money again, insist on the details. Once you start giving her money, it’s not just her business – it’s yours. If she’s not willing to give you full details of what this scheme is (it sounds to me like an out-and-out swindle), then you shouldn’t be willing to give her the cash. You’ve been supportive in the past, but you deserve a basic accounting of your money before you give her any more.

Don’t let her guilt you into giving anything more unless you’d be willing to make the investment on your own.

This is what she is in to:

"It’s a stock called T RDY and is a “reverse merger play”.

The CEO bought an old dead stock that still had a bunch of worthless shares on the market. He will soon reopen it as a construction business doing reconstruction in war-torn and earthquake areas. Sounds like he already has contracts, possibly with the government. He already has scaffolding on site - just not sure where. He paid over $6million for the shell, and has a long and successful history in the oil business, and as a consultant in mergers and acquisitions.

He has been working on this for 8 months, and you can follow the trail of his efforts through a long series of detailed SEC filings. http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=squote&symbol=trdy

We are now waiting for the formal announcement of the business. The minute the PR comes out, this should shoot up like a rocket.

In the past few days, only a few shares have sold - people that have been worn down by the waiting. No shares have traded today at all. Everyone is just waiting and waiting.

To see what such an announcement looks like, check out a one-month chart for V PRO - went up 2400% last week on a similar announcement.

I don’t think this one will go that high, but do expect at least 500% within a day or so of the announcement. "

So, is this day trading or gambling or what?

I think it’s about to be good money after bad for you.
She should be welcome to say “Mind your own business”, but not when she’s saying “Loan me some money”. Tell her to pick one.

Real problem is that she’s in the hole but doesn’t want to admit it, so she’s repeatedly going double or nothing. It’s clearly a bad bet, but if she admits that, she has to admit she’s in the hole, so she doesn’t want to look clearly. It won’t end well, but better it end sooner without your money, than later with your money as well as hers flushed away.

I wouldn’t give her nothing until she gets a real job and stays away from any kind of investing other than a bank account.

So the question is, the next time she asks for money…why more? She’s already invested her money…let’s just sit back and see what happens. If it works, great, you can wait for the next big thing and make your house payments in the mean time, if it doesn’t work out, you haven’t lost anymore money.

It’s gambling. Specifically the “assume you know more than everyone else who also has access to the Internet” subtype.

Maybe she’s being hit by margin calls? Looks like that stock has lost three quarters of its value in the past two months.

You should tell her about mutual funds, exchange-traded funds, and wise long-term investing strategy. Whatever she’s doing is stupid (and yes, the market has been performing outrageously well lately - I made over 20% returns on my portfolio this year).

Well, I sent her this email, which I think is very polite and tender, and she hasn’t responded:

"I don’t think you are going to like me saying this, but I’m going to do it anyway:

It seems to me that you have been working on this stock plan solidly for 16 or 17 months now without much to show for it. Have you kept track of how much you have invested and how much you have had returned in that time? Have you considered what will happen if/when it doesn’t work?

From here, it looks a though you are in danger of losing your house and car, and are having to sell stuff and borrow to get by.

I really don’t want to mind your business, but this is worrisome to me and I feel like I wouldn’t be a good friend/good sister if I didn’t ask. "

She is extremely sensitive to any perceived criticism, and if she does respond, I expect the standard “if you can’t be supportive of me” response.

She owes you money. You have every right to understand her business. She invited you in when she accepted the loan from you. She has no basis to tell you stay out.

Do you think that if a bank loaned you money, and you didn’t pay it back, and they inquired of your plans to make right on the loan, you could just say, “since you’re not supportive, I’m not going to talk to you anymore.”?