With grandchildren approaching college, I’m worried about some of the choices being concidered by them. Is there much employment oppertunity for grads with degrees such as Marine Biology, History, Geography, English, Phys. Ed. & Herpetology? I know 2 grads with History degrees & 1 in English selling cars. (Nothing wrong with selling cars, but it seems a waste of time & money to get such a degree only to end up in a career that dosen’t require college) Teaching is an option, but there is probabilly stiff compition. Since many of you are college educated or educating I’d like to get some thoughts…Thanks, Carl
For me, the third degree is the worst. It’s the bright light and rubber hose, I guess.
::very wry smile::
As a multi-degreed person, the best I can offer is to look at the thread in GD by Democritus about no-grade universities. (Someone more rested and sharper may link it.)
By life and profession, I’m the last to dismiss learning. But there’s a difference between knowledge and university degrees. My folks–Depression era American Dream heroes–always insisted that governments can fall, economies collapse, but the one thing that can’t be given or taken away is what a person puts in their brain.
But pursuing degrees just for future economic gain is pretty shoddy–and dicey. I don’t think any knowlege is wasted, but formal education is no guarantee and most certainly not the only way to learning. (Hey, that’s why I’m a librarian; learning is a birthright and minds are way too miraculous to stuff into neat education categories.)
Sorry, wandered afield there…IMO, the forumala for success is finding an honorable way of earning a living and keeping the passion for learning alive, lifelong. I do believe that education is self-given and earned. It can be easier, in some ways, in a university setting.
All too often the teacher is a grad-ass (been one!) rather than a Great Mind who is off publishing. But it can force exposure to entirely new fields of knowledge that wouldn’t even crop up otherwise. It’s not a guarantee; bored frat rats blow off chances that an active-minded working stiff couldn’t even dream of.
So…an honest plumber, mechanic, whatever can earn more and still be genuinely educated than some degreed bozos.
I guess it’s what you want. Take a look at time depth. Honest work and ability to pay the bills help. But that need (human and societal) to know can be harder to pursue and harder to footnote. I believe that ultimately knowledge matters; a genuinely educated plumber will out-distance a degreed goof-off.
Ask what they like to do, and then help them orient to what they’ll need to invest and give on all fronts.
Sorry! Messy, rambling (but honest) answer.
Veb
First of all, listen to TVeblen; she said it much better than I could. But, since I’m a grad student in one of the fields in question, I figured I might as well throw in my two cents…
First of all, the job market for English majors with decent computer skills is quite good. Technical writing is a growing field, and Lord knows there aren’t enough job applicants who can write a decent sentence. (I don’t mean to imply that a degree in English guarantees that the possessor can write, but it’s certainly something that employers look for.)
Of course, there’s always the risk that they’ll get bitten by the grad school bug and end up with a PhD that doesn’t turn into any job prospects (I seem to be going that way myself), but even so, what harm? Education isn’t really about providing for the rest of your life, it’s about figuring out how you want to spend that life – and a few years of reading and reflecting on good books are as good a way to start as any. People who enjoy schooling for its own sake usually don’t regret their choices; people who get a degree only because they think it will lead to a career usually end up bitter and resentful if things don’t go the way they planned. And like it or not, no degree is going to guarantee a job. Either way, your grandchildren are much better off studying what they care about.
I think apathy, depression, irony, and confusion are damned fine ways to view a world going to hell.
– Cynthia Heimel
I don’t think it matters what your grandchildren choose as a degree. They can always go back and build on it, and anyway, much like whetting a blade is not done for the sake of the stone, knowledge is not learned for the sake of the data. Anything you learn sharpens your mind, improving and refining the cognitive process. Even reading works wonders. As long as your grand kids go to college and study and learn and grow, everything will be fine. I think that the folks who graduate college and sell cars or do something that doesn’t require college are doing so for one or both of the following reasons:
-
They don’t know what they want to do, so they do something they’re good at that pays the bills until they figure things out.
Example: My brother-dual masters in English and Business Admin. Occupation: Firefighter. -
They are conforming to circumstances beyond they’re control.
Example: My friend who does basically the same job as I do-3 degrees one in biz admin, one in c.s. and another in elec. eng. and an mcse, cne I II and III and an mcsd. This guy, who knows more than any 4 supervisors here, is working this job becasue they work with his schedule and he want’s to spend time with his daughter. Ex-wife=mean.
So don’t always assume that since someone is in a job that any schmuck can get that they are there because they have to be, is all I’m getting at. Didn’t mean to be so verbose.
Don’t sweat it, Carl Berry, it’s cool. My mom thouhgt the same thing and she thinks she’s right cuz here I am, but I just am not ready to do the 9-5 corporate yes man wage slave in a suit thing.
Noonch.
“And on the eighth day, God Created beer
to prevent the Irish from taking over
the Earth.”
~SNOOGANS~
Whoops
I meant to say “They are conforming to circumstances beyond their control.”
Sorry. I’m not an idiot, I promise. 
“And on the eighth day, God Created beer
to prevent the Irish from taking over
the Earth.”
~SNOOGANS~
::another wry smile::
[LONG RAMBLE]
When I graduated from college, I worked in my field (Cartography) for about 2 years. It took me about that long to realize it would take a LONG time to make money. I had three choices. First, I could go for the safety? and security? of a government job. But a stint in the military left me with a permanent dislike for beauracracy. Second, I could go back to school. But I was too anxious to make money and my “mark on the world.” Third, I could find another field. Which I ended up doing. I stumbled into sales related to my field, and I ended up pretty good at it.
My point? To quote Tom Cruise “sometimes you just gotta say what the f*ck” I would have never predicted myself in my position in a thousand years. You just never know where you’re going to end up.
[/LONG RAMBLE]
That being said, the one thing some college students sometimes lose sight of is the fact that some fields require extensive education and degrees to make a living in that field. Psychology springs to mind immediately. There are many Psych majors, but few end up practicing their field. The same could be said of an English major.
Now that I’ve pissed off every English and Psych major on the board, let me add this. These and many other majors do teach skills that are applicable in many fields. And there’s no shame in not ending up in the field of your major. I didn’t. And a college education, while somewhat diluted these days, still provides a solid foundation for the workforce.
I feel the chances of a person getting a job in his chosen field after college depends quite a bit on that person’s perseverence, and to some degree his temperament. Example A - some years ago my friend’s son was a freshman studying I-forgot-what, decided he wanted to major in Theater and/or Drama. My friend was a widow, had just about enough money saved to put him through a couple of years of cow college, and persuaded him to go to New York and study acting there. So he went and studied (he jokes) at “The Manny Hernandez School of Acting and Refrigerator Repair”. He pursued acting for a year or so, got into jewelry design, did dog grooming, God knows what else…eventually moved to Florida, bought a boat, and today is deliriously happy taking tourists out on day trips. I don’t think a college degree would have helped him get any further ahead in show biz. Example B - my cousin always loved French, she and her family travelled to France every year, she got a college degree in French, and today is a French professor. And she actually got a job at a university , yes, teaching French. So it can be done. This was a dream come true for her. I don’t know how much money either of them makes, but they’re both happy.
I don’t expect my progeny’s progeny to take my advice ( I didn’t take my progenitor’s!) I think that too many kids fail to understand that the rest of their life will be spent chasing $$$! Might well make the chase as easy as possible! It’s sure nice to follow one’s dream, But knowing all there is to know about arachnids my not put dinner on the table! let’s be practical!..Thanks, Carl
(Off-topic)
From Veb-
Grad-ass! Grad-ass! I knew there was a cool abbreviation for my job out there somewhere!
Well, when I was in school, I attended a seminar about “What you can do with an English major”. (At the time, I was considering majoring in English.)
One of the speakers (I can’t remember all of them) was a federal judge who had majored in English. Point being, you can’t always know without checking what the degree (and the knowledge acquired) can be used for. Have your grandchildren talk to (1) people who teach (at the college level) the subject(s) they are considering, to find out how it can be applied and (2) people in jobs/careers they find interesting, to find out what majors will help in what careers.
Well, one of the things one can do with an English major is become a copy editor. I did secretarial work for a few years out of college, then decided to qualify myself to become a copy editor. It ain’t a thrill a minute, but it’s nice to use my grammar geek inclinations.
I keep hearing that there will be more need for editors in the future as the Web grows and with it the need to produce large amounts of coherent editorial. Of course, I also keep hearing that there will be no need for editors in the future as the Web grows and nobody cares anymore about coherent editorial.
Catrandom the Editrix
As a bachelor-of-arts degreed political scientist, I can tell you that the time, effort, and money spent earning my degree is well worth the tiny hint of satisfaction I receive when I fill in the “college graduate” bubble on application forms. 
In two months, I will have my degree in a Useless Subject, Anthropology. People are ALWAYS asking me what I’m going to do with that, and telling me that they’re majoring in Econ/CS/Business/whatever so that they can get a job.
What can one do with an Anth major? I personally want to go to get a Masters in Religious Studies and teach that in community college. Talking with other social sciences students, I have come to the conclusion that while that field of study hasn’t really given me “job skills” it’s made me understand people a whole lot better. And that must be useful somewhere, if one isn’t planning on going into academics.
~Harborina
The worst degree is in a field that holds no passion or true interest for that person.
I rather regret my useless degree–Social Work. It’s not entirely useless–I could have gotten a job with it (albeit not a very decent one, pay-wise), but it was not a field of interest to me, really. I chose it because I wanted to spend my life helping people, and I naively believed social work would be it for me. However, I hated every single one of the classes, and was annoyed by the constant politicizing. My professor was horrible, and I was a thorn in her side–although she called me her “tiger on her back.” Field work was torturous, awkward, and horribly, horribly disenchanting. It isn’t that Social Work is a bad profession, or a poor major choice–it was just an ill match for me. Unfortunately, I didn’t fully realize this until second semester senior year. So, I went back to school for 3 semesters and earned my credential and become and elementary school teacher–and I love it. (Usually!)
In hindsight, I really wish I’d simply chosen to study something that interested me, like English Lit, or Philosophy, Theology, Music, Journalism…I should have stuck with my original plan to be an English major with a music minor. Ah, well. I could always go back, and likely will…once I know what I want to be when I grow up.
The other variety of rotten degree is the one that simply an excuse to get through college–a degree that holds no personal interest but keeps the student on campus for all relevant parties.
formerly known as LauraRae
I’m a Raggety Ann in a Barbie Doll world.
When I was in college I wrote a comedy piece about the value of various degrees. It went something like this:
Engineering Degree - You get to spend four years drinking beer and sabotaging the school.
Science Degree - Qualifies you to get more science degrees. If you get enough science degrees, you can teach people how to get science degrees.
Arts Degree - Qualifies you to stand around and talk about meaningless subjects with other people with arts degrees.
Business Degree - Same as the arts degree, only the people you are talking with have money.
Education Degree - This is the degree you get when you’re too stupid or lazy to make it through any of the real degree programs. Good thing the graduates of this program don’t have to do anything important.
Phys. Ed Degree - sdjspadspoaf. Sorry. Too busy laughing to type.
TVeblen said: But pursuing degrees just for future economic gain is pretty shoddy-
Boy are we in total disagreement on that!!
Instead of shoddy, I would call it preparing for the future. Getting a degree that gives you a good income does not preclude you from learning and continuing to learn.
I was on a local college advisory board for several years and had some knock-down, drag-out arguments with the dean over this subject. The dean wanted to provide degrees that sounded neat and were easy to get so the school could attract students. I felt and still feel that this is a huge disservice to the student. Granting a degree in “Leisure Time Mangement” that qualified them for a job as a night desk clerk at the local motel just doesn’t cut it. Especially since they could get the same job without the degree.
Ruffian – glad to hear your leg has healed.
I don’t know if any degree is “useless.” Just having a degree at all is an important qualification for a lot of jobs.
Ideally, you should get one in a subject that interests you and which will be relevant to to your career. The problem is you really have no idea what your career will be when your in college. That’s even more true nowadays with new technolgies and industries cropping. Also, you may have a degree in one area and spend your life working in another area.
In my case, I got an undergraduate degree in Social Sciences (not Social Science – it was a combined Political Science/History major). My first job out of college was a TV sportscaster. After a bunch of jobs (store manager, radio ad salesman, techincal writer, SF author), I went back and got a Masters in English. Now I’m the webmaster at a college, and teach computer labs there. I can teach the labs because I have the Masters (even though it’s not in Computer Science of anything “relevant”).
It’s all a crapshoot. Best course is to go for a degree in a subject that excites you.
“East is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does.” – Marx
Read “Sundials” in the new issue of Aboriginal Science Fiction. www.sff.net/people/rothman
The worst degree? Absolute zero, (Zero K) I would suppose.
I agree wholeheartedly with Diver. I’ll be a university freshman in the fall, and as of now I am undecided (my school has a core curriculum, so it would be useless of me to declare now anyway). I am giving it a lot of thought, and career advancement is just about number one on the list of priorities (as long as it fits under the general umbrella of things that interest me, which is just about everything). I am reminded of the Simpsons a few weeks ago, where Homer runs over the leg of the star college football player. Dr. Hibbert, after examining him, tells him that he will never play football again, but that’s OK since he will be getting a college degree. He asks him what his major is, to which the football player cries “Communications!!!” And Dr. Hibbert says “Dear God!” (or something to that effect).
One piece of advice: take the particular school that they go to into consideration. If they go to a school that’s strong in, say, business, they can’t get hurt going in that direction.
The IQ of a group is equal to the IQ of the dumbest member divided by the number of people in the group.
However, you never know when fortune will smile on those with more obscure degrees. One guy I knew decided to major in Russian. He got the mandatory snickering and scoffing from the people with the “Real” degrees like Business and Geology (We live in the capital of the Canadian oil industry). A few years later, several huge oil companies started working in Siberia. Now, geologists are a dime a dozen here, but someone with fluent Russian and a deep understanding of Russian culture was priceless. He was pretty much the centre of a bidding war, while the business majors and such were totally passed over for the jobs they felt were theirs for the asking.
However, for the most part, it is really up to the person involved. I have known someone with two (count 'em, two) Masters degrees, he worked along side me in a coffee shop for six bucks an hour.
That said, I’mm addicted to going to school. If I won the lottery, it’s what I’d do forever.(Currently, I’m working towards a degree in Geography)
Good luck to the grandkids!