While perusing some of the other “who might run for president threads,” it occurred to me that either version of a Giuliani/McCain ticket might be unbeatable. What are other folks thoughts about this?
I’m thinking the huge hurdle would be to clear the primaries because of the bloc force of the religious right. Anyhow, I don’t have a dog in the fight, I was just pondering.
Not sure myself. Both men have their own share of baggage of course, and as you said both aren’t exactly poster children for the loony right. I don’t think they would be ‘unbeatable’…unless the Dems serve up the same ole same ole they normally seem to want to serve up lately. In that case…well, lets just think about the fact that GW managed to win a second term and leave it at that, ehe?
Oh…one other thing. IF there was a Giuliani/McCain ticket…well, I’d seriously consider voting Republican for the first time since Reagan. FWIW.
-XT
Ah, the rage-and-infidelity ticket! I’d vote for it in a heartbeat.
[QUOTE=Rudolph Giuliani]
Don’t be a jerk. Thank you.
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Whatever else it would be, it’d be fun to watch, that’s for damn sure.
[QUOTE=xtisme]
I don’t think they would be ‘unbeatable’…unless the Dems serve up the same ole same ole they normally seem to want to serve up lately. -XT
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What is that supposed to mean? I mean, really, particularly in retrospect, why do you think a Kerry/Edwards administration would be a bad one right now? Do you honestly believe that we’d be worse off?
Any Democratic ticket is going to be subjected to a barrage of lies and nonsense from Swiftboating to teh gay to they’re going to take the guns from our cold dead hands. Our only hope is that the infrastructure that has been and is being built will help to dismantle the bullshit machine. (I don’t hold out hope for the media, however. For ex: where are the stories about how Lincoln Chaffee is being purged and how this will bring about the downfall of the Republican Party?)
As far as your transitive property, McCain managed to lose the nomination to Bush as well, ehe. Why would he be particularly unbeatable?
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac]
Ah, the rage-and-infidelity ticket! .
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You mean, like Harry S. Truman and Bill Clinton? I’d vote for those two.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
McCain managed to lose the nomination to Bush as well, ehe. Why would he be particularly unbeatable?
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Well, from my standpoint, if one of them could get through the primaries and select the other as the running mate, I think they’d be unbeatable because:
Of course, except for the name recognition bit, all the above is IMHO.
I’m surmising that the likelihood of a centrist Republican a) getting the nomination and b) attracting appreciable centrist-Democrat voters would increase if the Dems take back at least one house of Congress.
If the Republicans hold onto both of them, I don’t see the far-right brethren of the party letting go of the reins; and even if they did, in such an environment I think lots of folks who might otherwise vote for a centrist Republican would see it as too much of a ratification of what the Republican party has been doing in, to, and with our government for the last (by then nearly) 8 years.
Of course that’s assuming they continue on their trajectory.
Isn’t McCain getting on a bit? How about Guiliani / Condi?
[QUOTE=CapnPitt]
Well, from my standpoint, if one of them could get through the primaries and select the other as the running mate, I think they’d be unbeatable because:
Of course, except for the name recognition bit, all the above is IMHO.
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I agree on all your points and McCain would partially appease the right of the Republican Party. Rudy is much too “liberal” for the Religious Right, but they would probably accept him as the VP. McCain is less a centrist and more of a maverick. Rudy is a true Centrist. I would vote for the ticket in a heartbeat. I would even consider campaigning for it.
I hope the democrats do come up with a better candidate than Kerry or Edwards. I vote Kerry last time and I hated doing it. Forget swiftboat, Kerry made it hard for a moderate to vote for Kerry.
Jim
[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Rudy is much too “liberal” for the Religious Right, but they would probably accept him as the VP.
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I think, though, as Quartz has pointed out, McCain would be the oldest person to be elected in our history should he win. Some may feel a McCain/Giuliani ticket has the very real possibility of putting Giuliani in the Oval Office should McCain start showing his age. If they’re uncomfortable with the idea of Giuliani being the president, McCain as the presidential candidate might give them pause.
I might vote for the ticket…which almost certainly means they’d never get nominated.
McCain, from what I read, is not that popular with the party faithful, who see him as a loose cannon. Giuliani is suspect with the social conservatives.
Remember how the pundits always say that the only Democrats who’ve been successful since 1960 have been from the South? Think about this. When’s the last time a Republican from the Northeast made it on the Republican ticket? (GW Bush called himself a Texan.)
I would think another problem with that ticket is that the campaign would finally put to rest this idea that McCain is some kind of centrist (let alone really a “straight talker”).
Early in 2000 I was hoping that McCain would be the Republican nominee because I had bought into the idea. Then I looked at what his record really is. i think many people would have a similar reaction, especially with the opposition making it part of the story.
McCain did, nevertheless, best express my feelings after 9/11, when he said to those who had attacked us (paraphrasing): “We’re coming for you. May God have mercy on you, because we certainly won’t.”
Oh yeah, whatever happened to Osama bin Laden? Has McCain been pushing for us to get back to our efforts to stop him? It seems like what he must have meant was, we won’t have mercy on you, if we ever get around to trying to find you.
[QUOTE=Quartz]
How about Guiliani / Condi?
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I don’t think she could stand being away from her beloved George that long. :dubious:
What? Can’t you people read body language? The girl’s got it BAD for him. I’m waiting for her to climb on him during a photo op.
[QUOTE=kunilou]
…When’s the last time a Republican from the Northeast made it on the Republican ticket? (GW Bush called himself a Texan.)
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George H.W. Bush in 1988. Of course her had 8 years of VPhood under his belt and was running against Dukakis.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
What is that supposed to mean? I mean, really, particularly in retrospect, why do you think a Kerry/Edwards administration would be a bad one right now? Do you honestly believe that we’d be worse off?
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Compared to Bush? No, I’m not saying that at all. I wouldn’t be particularly enthused by Kerry/Edwards in charge…but then I’m not particularly pleased by Bush/Chaney either. What I meant was…the message, with little exception (or variation) is the same ole same ole one the Dems have been serving up pretty much for decades now. Its dull, its old…and frankly it sucks the big one. Now, you may not feel the same way (in fact, I assume you don’t)…this is just MY opinion of the Dems message.
The only good thing on your horizon is…the Pub’s message is getting a bit dated, old and stale as well. Maybe pointing to good things from your perspective this election cycle, ehe?
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
Any Democratic ticket is going to be subjected to a barrage of lies and nonsense from Swiftboating to teh gay to they’re going to take the guns from our cold dead hands. Our only hope is that the infrastructure that has been and is being built will help to dismantle the bullshit machine. (I don’t hold out hope for the media, however. For ex: where are the stories about how Lincoln Chaffee is being purged and how this will bring about the downfall of the Republican Party?)
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Those things came from the Republican side obviously…I was talking about the actual Dem message/platform. Which consisted (again, IMHO) of a rehash of the same old tire message coupled with a health dose of ‘We ain’t Bush!’. Only half of the equations is what the other side says about you…the other half is what they say about themselves. And, again IMHO, the Dems message is…well, you get the point. The 'Pubs message is nearly as old and tired and out of touch. I wish this meant that there would be a pox on both your houses…but things just don’t work out that way in the US.
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
As far as your transitive property, McCain managed to lose the nomination to Bush as well, ehe. Why would he be particularly unbeatable?
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I don’t think this was directed at me, but I’ll re-iterate…I agree. The only caviot I’ll give is that the Dems need to work for it by re-working their message if they expect to beat not just those two but ANY two the Republicans serve up. For while the 'Pubs message IS getting rather old, the Dems message was old a decade ago and it positively ancient.
At least, thats how I see it. Maybe ‘We ain’t Bush!’ and a recycled series of planks from the 60’s will be enough this time to throw you guys over the top. The country REALLY is unhappy with the Republicans these days it seems to me.
-XT
[QUOTE=xtisme]
What I meant was…the message, with little exception (or variation) is the same ole same ole one the Dems have been serving up pretty much for decades now. Its dull, its old…and frankly it sucks the big one. Now, you may not feel the same way (in fact, I assume you don’t)…this is just MY opinion of the Dems message.
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Oh. Well then, no, I don’t disagree with you. They greatly need to improve the message, or the method of conveying the method. They have to stop being scared to tell people what they stand for. I don’t mind at all if what they say is the same as what they said in the 60’s, as a rule, but they better damn well get comfortable saying it.
“Unbeatable”? Hell, “impossible” is more like it. Giuliani would never get the nod as a candidate, whether Prez or VP, due entirely to his pro-choice stance. And unlike Bush pere, he actually has the spine required to keep from caving for the nod.
Plus, he has no problems with homosexuality or infidelity. Strikes two and three, I believe.
-Waste
[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
George H.W. Bush in 1988. Of course her had 8 years of VPhood under his belt and was running against Dukakis.
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For want of an initial the point was lost. . . I was refering to GHWB, aka 40, aka Bush I. Whatever you call him, he called himself a Texan.
[QUOTE=GLWasteful]
“Unbeatable”? Hell, “impossible” is more like it. Giuliani would never get the nod as a candidate, whether Prez or VP, due entirely to his pro-choice stance. And unlike Bush pere, he actually has the spine required to keep from caving for the nod.
Plus, he has no problems with homosexuality or infidelity. Strikes two and three, I believe.
-Waste
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Exactly the reason why Rudy would not get the Prez nom without splitting the party. I still hold out hope that McCain and the other Moderates could strong arm the Religious Right into the fact that adding “America’s Mayor” to the ticket would keep the Democrats from taking power and then instituting gay marriage immediately and outlawing teaching ID for good and anything else the religious right truly fears.
[QUOTE=kunilou]
:I might vote for the ticket…which almost certainly means they’d never get nominated.
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I like the way you phrased that. I feel the same way. For 2000 I saw McCain for the Republicans and Bill Bradley for the Dems and thought for the first time I might get two candidates I like. Instead I got Bush vs. Gore and voted for Nader.
[QUOTE=Loopydude]
I think, though, as Quartz has pointed out, McCain would be the oldest person to be elected in our history should he win. Some may feel a McCain/Giuliani ticket has the very real possibility of putting Giuliani in the Oval Office should McCain start showing his age. If they’re uncomfortable with the idea of Giuliani being the president, McCain as the presidential candidate might give them pause.
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I keep trying to run scenarios were my party is desperate enough to nominate candidates I like. I hold out hopes that the Dems win back one of the houses in the midterms and it scares the party into running McCain/Rudy. I do not expect it, but I would love to see it. I also see McCain’s age and friendship with Rudy equaling a very strong Vice Presidency for Rudy and then a good shot as the Presidency after that.
Jim