Unfortunately, our own Revolution is what the burn it all downers see as a template to a better future, when historically speaking it’s an aberration.
Oh, they have a vision of what change is like.
It depicts a violent revolution in the United States, caused by a group called the Organization. The Organization’s actions lead to the overthrow of the federal government, a nuclear war, and ultimately a race war which leads to the systematic extermination of non-whites and Jews worldwide. Whites viewed as “race traitors” are ultimately hanged in a mass execution called the “Day of the Rope”.
In the wake of the January 6 United States Capitol attack, historian Kathleen Belew argued that the book was an inspiration to the rioters. She wrote that some actions in the attack appeared to be inspired by the book’s “Day of the Rope” and an attack on Congress in the book. She wrote that the book “really becomes a clear point of reference if you look at the photographs of the action”.[46] Terrorism analysts Bruce Hoffman and Jacob Ware noted it as evoking the image of the “Day of the Rope”.
You are American, and have more faith in Americans refusing to go along with an immoral invasion than non-Americans do.
And America has decades of examples of it engaging in immoral invasions without successful pushback, and under much less dictatorial regimes.
I’m just amazed. I’m not giving my opinion when I say that the fascists won your government, and did so wholly and legitimately. Its just the reality. You, yourself, offer no counter to this statement, but simply curse the system itself and blindly call their influence as “disproportionate”. No, this time it was proportionate to your country’s vote and a good reflection of their choice of political representation.
Trump is the ultimate conman and hacker of systems in the 21st century.
He is not. He just appeals to Americans desire for an immoral, irresponsible, criminal, tyrant. There’s a lot of blind, cruelty-worship, baked in what Americans want as political representatives. This is just what it is.
Liberals are weak in our system, it is true, because following the rule of law means getting absolutely nothing done at all. The senate alone prevents anything from happening.
I’m not going to pretend that I fully understand your system. But I do see the systematic strengthening of extreme right-wing policies and a blind disregard for law, truth, or human suffering. A whole set of continuous American liberal failures have brought us all here: where Canada hears aggressive militaristic expansionist talk from our southern border.
I need evidence that a large contingent is cheering Trump on wrt those things.
Well, I guess I’ll dig something up then. It shouldn’t be difficult as I don’t think his idiot followers know nor care of the ramifications of such actions. But I’ll withdraw that comment until I get it.
Sadly, not a small number of Canadians are Trumpers too. My best friend is married to a Canadian and his father-in-law–hoo boy. Trump nut par excellence.
There’s a lot I hate about our Canadian right-wing, but it doesn’t manifest itself in the same ways as the US right does. Although they have tried the tactics of “The country is dying/fallen!”, and other alarmist talk to scare the public enough to vote out the Liberals (who are/were on borrowed time anyways).
The real scammers are the Canadian right-wing independent faux media. Its a cottage industry of stone cold scammers and grifters preying on fearful/lonely/alienated middle-aged folk and elderly. Scare them, offer community, ask for money. Repeat.
That’s still a failure. Give any other non-warzone country such a continuous string of child slaughters and I bet there would’ve action. In fact I bet, every single country with a gun law on-the-books came from a very very sad real life event. The US liberals are just too weak to change this.
I don’t know if he could or could not have pushed it through. I’m just working off a fragmented image of an article I must have read over 5 years ago now.
In Canada, we have a problem with foreign interference in our politics (mostly China and Russia), or our civil order (India’s assassination of dissidents), the US could do INSANE amounts of violations if it desired so. We are not a closed society like Cuba, if the CIA decided to inject a little chaos in any sphere of Canadian public society they could do so without much effort or trace.
Agreed.
We should be actively and aggressively campaigning for our US supporters to buy Canadian, in protest of this treatment of a valuable ally.
I’ve heard of that book. Sure, a lot of these people are true RWNJs. I’m just saying that, in terms of actually governing per our current system, they have no vision.
I think the evidence is in place that a large number of Americans would object to, protest, and obstruct an invasion of Canada.
It’s a matter of degree, right? I don’t the Canadians here believe that there would be zero negative reaction on the part of Americans to an invasion, right? So perhaps we disagree on the degree, though I would not know how to quantify the level of agreement/disagreement based on our words thus far.
I expect them to protest, I just don’t expect those protests to work. People have talked about the protests in 2020, about police killings of Black people. How much did those actually change anything? From up here in Canada, the imagery was mostly of US cops going to town on protestors. They were firing rubber bullets at people who were just standing on their front porches watching things happen.
If the US is gearing up for an actual shooting war with Canada, those bullets probably won’t be rubber this time.
Yes, and that is our difference of opinion; I think your American-centric faith here is wildly at odds with the facts.
Precisely. I think a great many Americans would complain on social media. There may be demonstrations. Big whoop. No one in Canada will care about someone posting a Canadian flag on Instagram if families are being killed by the USAF and troops are swarming across the border.
Those behind Trump are already starting the process of manufacturing consent. The hints are being put out there. Trumpists are half the population or close to it and they’ll end up being firmly in support. Trump just needs to get a few of the other half to at least hold the position that they don’t think the war is a good idea but that, hey, gotta support the troops.
The word “wholly” doesn’t work because of federalism, and my counter to the statement consisted of pointing this out. Trump won the presidency. That sucks. There are a bunch of red states that have all three branches of their governments locked up. That sucks. But there are also blue states like that. Big blue cities in red states. There are no big red cities in blue states, however. It’s an urban-rural divide, and our constitution gives disproportionate power to smaller, more rural states. That is “just the reality.” (Though Trump won the popular vote this time, which obviates bitching about the Electoral College.)
That kind of thing is probably always latent in humanity, and it’s open now not just in the US but a lot of countries because people are frustrated with the current economic reality. Trump has been very skilled at channeling and fanning grievance in a way that others could not get away with. I suppose you saw how badly Ron DeSantis flopped on the national stage when he tried to do the same thing.
Wrt your emphasis on the fecklessness of Liberals, I must to some degree acknowledge the point in that we have failed to achieve our stated goals. In addition, Biden in particular was not up to the task of beating back a fascist insurgency, and he made the unforced error of running for a second term. A lot of the blame for what is currently happening lies at his feet.
Your tone, however, suggests that Liberals on the whole are particularly deserving of blame and derision, as if whatever comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth were directly our fault and responsibility. With this, I must disagree. We are dealing with the unprecedented situation of our opposing political party completely abdicating its responsibility to the country and supporting a would-be fascist dictator. The GOP are traitors, plain and simple.
Yet. You see, the hackers train each other.
Hmm, sounds familiar…
The constitution is a failure at this point. That’s why we’re going to need a revolution to effect any change. If the fascists wanted to change it, they would face the same impossibility as well.
This is just basic US civics here. The senate confirms. The Republicans controlled the senate. Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, refused to bring it to a vote.
Sounds familiar…
It’s not going to happen. As I said before, Trump does not have the wherewithal to seek any kind of fine-grained intervention of that sort, and he has no henchmen in place to do it. He will just continue working his dumb mouth and maybe do some more tariffs.
I was messaging with an American friend of my earlier today, who was asking about how Canadians were seeing things, and reacting to these threats.
I eventually said my biggest concern wasn’t an invasion, but that things in the US will get bad enough that a significant number of US citizens will try to flee north to avoid persecution. Even 1% of their population trying this would overwhelm us.
But I just now also realized: Even trying to accommodate those people would give Trump his excuse. They’d be the people he considers to be the “worst enemies of the MAGA state”, and Canada would be “harboring those fugitives from MAGA justice!” He’d say the military was just crossing the border to “apprehend” these fugitives, and oh, so sorry, we didn’t mean to fuck up all your cities in the process, our bad.
You keep trying to say the fascists haven’t won, but you have to understand: All we’re hearing is excuses for why your system let the fascists win. You can prattle on about blue states and cities all you want, but the reality is, the fascists control your federal government, and they’ll have no hesitations using that power to bring your Blue enclaves to heel. They’re already talking about arresting lower-level elected officials who don’t toe the line.
I don’t really have any more points to offer against what I perceive to be obvious, albeit sincere, hyperbole. And the situation that Trump has created is indeed unprecedented and disgraceful, so I can’t really blame you for being hyperbolic. Insofar as I am capable of representing our very ill country at this juncture, I apologize on behalf of it.
The protests would not come just from average people on the Internet but from every level and sector of society, including politicians, big biz leaders, and so on.
I think it changed a lot, but it all comes down to what has happened thereafter in individual communities and individual police departments, so it’s difficult to assess and prove.
So you think an invasion will actually happen? All I can say is… no way.
Fascists could win much more easily in a parliamentary system like yours. Viz Germany, 1933. Hitler himself was not even elected. If anything, our presidential system makes it much more difficult for a Donald Trump to get elected. To make that happen, an entire political party had to become traitors to their country. Our system (at least in this respect) is not weak; it’s society itself that is diseased.
We shall see. This thing’s a powder keg ready to go up.
Not even close there are 340+ million Americans. 77.3 million voted for him. That’s not even a quarter of America.
He didn’t even hit 50% of those who voted. He got 49.8% of those voting. Harris got 48.3%. So he exceeded Harris by only 1.5% of the vote. Hardly overwhelming and not a majority.
But it’s half the VOTERS, is it not? And I see no reason to believe that those who didn’t show up are, proportionally speaking, less likely to be Trumpists than the voters. All evidence suggests political persuasion amongst people who didn’t get to the polls is basically the same as those who did.
And if someone has no opinion, they don’t count.
I think it’s alarmingly possible. Perhaps 10 percent. Life is probabilities, not certainties. But it’s now possible enough that it would be foolish to assume it can’t happen. The fact the President and his handlers are beginning to try to move public opinion towards it tells us everything. This was not some off the cuff comment, and Trump is not the only person laying the groundwork for getting the populace on board.
This kind of thing has been polled a lot. I’ve seen the stat of 30%-ish for the percentage of adults who are in Trump’s MAGA base. I mean, that’s bad enough and emblematic of a sick and stupid society.
I think the percent is maybe that for Trump starting to make concrete moves in that direction, which would be unknown to the public (at least at first) unless he is able to move things forward.
Trump is a demented idiot. I don’t know to what degree his handlers are going along with anything he opens his mouth about. I certainly don’t see any kind of concerted or competent propaganda campaign about an invasion at this point. I also don’t see support for an invasion among other GOP pols.
Well, the idiot himself has repeated it, I agree. He definitely has the delusion that Canada could somehow become the “51st state.” I don’t see anyone else “laying the groundwork,” however.