That is certainly a valid viewpoint and I think it is one the staunch anti-spanking people envision when they think of spanking. No one here is going to advocate any true abuse.
However, let’s say there is an overweight child. Some parents will talk to them about eating and excercsing while encouarging them to do what is best for themselves. Other parents will make piggy noises at them and tell them they are disgusting every day. One is not likely to slip into the other.
A swat on the behind for a two year old trying to touch a hot stove for the 3rd time is very different from a emotionalized beat-down with a coat hanger.
I would never. I just couldn’t justify the hypocrisy of teaching my hypothetical child that violence is not an acceptable way of settling things while using violence myself. I wouldn’t want to ingrain authoritarianism in such a way, either.
I have no children, and plan on keeping it that way.
There is a very large difference between spanking and abuse. From the age of 5 until I was about 10, I lived with an aunt and uncle who were abusive. My aunt once forced me to eat an entire ashtray of cig butts and ashes because I had lied about knocking it over. I didn’t lie, because I didn’t knock it over. Her son did, but since he would never lie of course I was lying. Beatings were very common - not spankings - beatings with a wide leather belt. One weekend, my mother was able to make a suprise visit. She always slept in my room when she visited. As I changed into my nightgown, she asked me what had happened to my back. Two days before her suprise visit, my uncle had taken me into the basement, stripped me and beaten me from my neck to my ankles with a switch. My mother walked into her sisters bedroom, snatched my uncle out of bed by his t-shirt, and told him if he ever laid another hand on me she would kill him. She then went home, resigned her job, and moved to a place where I could live with her. Did I get spankings after that? Maybe a handful of times - restriction was a more effective punishment and she knew it.
Swatting a toddler on a well-padded butt with a hand is not going to scar a child for life. Sometimes, with some children, it is the only way to get their attention.
Exactly my thoughts. If you beat a kid, it doesn’t matter how many times you say “violence is bad”. You’re still showing them that violence is the way to solve conflicts.
I don’t see anything wrong with an attention grabbing swatt to the bottom though, particularly in circumstances where disobedience results in harm to the child, such as touching a hot stove, poking a coat hanger into an electrical outlet etc.
:dubious: So spanking a child with the same amount of force the same child would get from, say, falling down on their butt learning to walk is assault? With the same force you’d use to poke someone to get their attention?
I think you have spanking and intention of dire physical harm confused.
We don’t spank. For me, it’s just not in my nature. I don’t have the impulse to hit my child and it doesn’t make sense to me to do it “calmly” and when I’m not angry. That just seems weird to me. It doesn’t make sense to me in the way other people have mentioned, either - I’m trying to teach my kid not to hit or be violent. How do I do that while hitting him? We use redirection and time outs so far, and I’m currently reading a few books on (non-hitting) discipline so that we have more strategies as he gets older (he’s 2 1/2 and I’m expecting another). I also look to my brother and SIL for advice - they’re raising four wonderful, polite, well-behaved boys (ages 3-15) and have never hit any of them.
FWIW, I was spanked occasionally as a child (probably 5-10 times total). I was a stubborn little brat and basically had a “bring it on, fool!” attitude about spanking. It didn’t scare me into submission; it just made me think my parents were idiots (about whatever issue they were punishing me for…I think they were fantastic parents overall).
Yeah, swatting on the butt sure puts a bunch of the negative things the USA does in their proper light, don’t it? :dubious: And of course, compared to other countries, our corporal punishment views are downright inhumane. How could we be so unjust? Simply look at the viewpoints of everyone posting here…Criminal, I tell ya! Lord knows no other country would have viewpoints like that…
We do a single swap to the butt after other attempts at rational explanation are exhausted. Unfortunately, it does make us wonder if we are teaching that violence is the ultimate answer. Talk, coerce, distract…violence!
I’ve done 1 official spanking where kidcat was told what was coming and why. 5 over-the-knee spanks for eating a whole package of homeopathic pills (don’t get me started on wifecat’s Homeopathy crap…) while we were sleeping-in one morning. She climbed up on a chair, then on a counter, to get to the shelf they were on. Sucking down 20 sugar pills in-and-of-itself was not the problem. The problem was that there was a bottle of Tylenol next to the pills. I spanked her butt fairly hard. She doesn’t take pills unless given to her now. Somehow I don’t think discussing the issue with a 3 year old would have ultimately led to a change in behavior we could trust. We see the change now after the spanking, and I am glad we see the change, and am glad that the spanking worked.
Spanking undermines the effectiveness of preaching non-violence to a child.
The short-term deterrent effect of spanking is most likely strong, but will no doubt have diminishing marginal returns in the long run if overused.
Personally, it would be difficult to separate the intensity of the spanking from my anger with the child, so folks like me probably ought to refrain from spanking.
I don’t have a problem with it in theory. My main rule is that it should never be used in anger. In other words, if the reason you are spanking is because the child “deserved it”, then the child probably didn’t deserve it and it was just a release of anger or frustration. If a swat on the rump or the hand is the fastest way to get through to a child who is not listening to words, then I would do so. I was never spanked as a child because I never needed to be. It was threatened, but I never felt the need to find out if my parents would make good on the threat.
I have also never felt the need to spank my almost-3 yr old daughter, although I have come close. The times I came close were times when I realized that the reason I wanted to swat her was because of my own frustration. These are situations when time-out works well. I think time-out (as touchy-feely-new-agy as it sounded to me before I became a parent) is really for the parent and not just the child. There have been occasions when my daughter has asked to be put in time-out just because she was as frustrated with us as we were with her. It gives you a crucial few minutes to remind yourself that you are the adult and need to act that way. So I think if I’m going to spank my child I need to have a darn good reason.
I also believe that no one can make that decision except the child’s parents/primary guardians. If I ever find out about anyone else spanking my child, God won’t be able to save them from the spanking THEY’LL get.
There are lots of ways that parents interact with their children that are more or less unique to that relationship and don’t constitute examples of how to resolve conflicts. When kids deal with each other, they certainly can’t order “time-outs” or withold dessert.
Precisely my point. They can’t order time-outs or withhold dessert, but they can hit. So what do you teach them? That authority doesn’t rest on muscle mass.
I would, and I have. Sometimes kids just need their asses smacked. It’s not a perfect way to discipline, but it gets the point across if done properly. And most kids will try to avoid it once its happened a few times. Time outs just aren’t always appropriate or effective.
I have never seen a good argument (maybe I haven’t looked hard enough ) from those dead-set against spanking how society didn’t end up a lot more warped than it is given that spanking was an accepted means of punishment for many thousands of years.
Perhaps other punishments are more effective than spanking but unless someone can explain how we survived untraumatised after being “assaulted” for those thousands of years, that’s all the “cite” I need that spanking is not as horrible as some make it out to be.
I don’t think spanking a little kid on the ass teaches them “to hit.”
Personally, I think it’d be kinda funny if my kid went to school, got into a fight and the worst that happened was my kid swatted the other kid on the ass.
If your kid thinks it’s ok to hit someone in the stomach, or arm, or face, they’ve probably been taught to hit from a source other than your smacking them on the ass once in a great while.
I also think it’s absurd how some parents expect they can treat their three, four & five-year-olds like little adults. You really can’t sit down and have a nice, mature, rational adult conversation with your four-year-old who is spinning out of control. It’s boundary-testing day, and today we’re going to find out who’s in charge around here! I wanna run out in the street, and you aren’t going to stop me. And don’t try that stupid “time-out” gag, 'cause we both know I’m going to scream & cry and make lots of micro-deals until it isn’t even a punishment at all and once I’ve tired you out I’m still gonna go run out in the street.
But I think the point is that some us did* not * survive untraumatized. Some of us (myself included) had parents who used spanking less as a sparingly-apllied tool for behavior modification and more as a way to show who’s boss or as a way to vent their frustrations.
Being a parent is frustrating sometimes. There are times when I yell, and then have to go back and apologize for it. I have to say, “I’m frustrated, and I don’t like what you did, but yelling wasn’t the way to handle it.” There are times when the thought flashes into my brain, This is why parents hit their kids. I get it. But I don’t hit, because I grew up with a mom who couldn’t **stop ** hitting once she started, and I’m scared to death that that would be me. As GWVet said, sometimes time-outs are for the parents to calm down, too.
My first didn’t need to be spanked. She understands her ranking in the family (I’m the adult; she’s the child) and we have very few discipline issues with her.
The second child, however, has had a difficult time accepting my authority over her from the day she was old enough to walk. Now that she’s older I have found other ways to discipline her, but I can say with all seriousness that she has richly deserved every spanking she’s ever gotten. And then some.
One of my favorite fictional characters (Jamie Fraser of “Outlander”) has described corporal punishment in this way (paraphrased): If you grow up laughing about it, it’s discipline; if you grow up weeping about it; it’s abuse.
I have never spanked my son. Probably never will now since he’s 6’1" and 200+ .
Me–I was hit with anything that was in hand as well as a few things that were manufactured for that purpose. Welts, stripes, bloody noses…had 'em all.
Now mind you, I don’t preach non-violence. I preach, “Protect yourself and/or remove the threat.” If some kid is stupid enough to take a poke at my son, well, first of all, my son would probably take it. He probably wouldn’t take a second poke, though.
) from those dead-set against spanking how society didn’t end up a lot more warped than it is given that spanking was an accepted means of punishment for many thousands of years.