Wasn’t spanked myself. We don’r spank MilliCal.
Why spank when there’s perfectly good psychological mind-screwing?
Me, too, fishbicycle. When I first had kids, I parented much like my abusive father had done, until a very good friend convinced me to get myself into counseling, which later progressed into parenting classes. It saved my life, but more importantly it saved the lives of my children simply by me learning parenting skills.
I had two different ‘sets’ of kids, 10 years apart. First set were spanked. Second set has rarely recieved more than a swat across the butt. I’d prefer parenting like I did with the second set.
I’d spank, no question. I don’t have kids, but all the people I know that do, and don’t spank their kids, have kids that are wretched little bastards.
I hear a lot of talk about raising a child to be “non-violent” and frankly, it confuses me. Sometimes, violence is not only called for, but necessary. It must be understood of course, that violence is the absolutely final resort to solve a problem. Sometimes, there is no way to reason with a child, and a swat on the ass, be it hand or belt, is what brings them around. Going further than that though, can be, and often is, abuse.
I just need to say this…
It’s my personal opinion that, if you need a belt, a “switch”, a hair brush, a paddle, or any other kind of force multiplier to administer corporal punishment to a child, then you’re a child abuser.
What, you can’t hit your kid hard enough with your hand? You need something to make it hurt more, or make it more terrifying?
To each his or her own. Discipline your kids as you will. Don’t expect me to support you, though, if you need an object to beat your child.
Believe me, the child will remember it. And not in a nice way.
I hope when your 6’1" and 200+ lb son meets a 5’6" 130 lb weakling with a 32 calibre equalizer you’ve taught him something other than “removing the threat.”
I would also hope when my 98 lb daughter decides to tell your 6’1" and 200+ lb son that his contribution to their thesis project sucks that your son isn’t going to go into “remove the threat” mode.
Hell yes. Definitely. With belts and switches they’ll pull off the tree themselves. Not as a first resort but damn sure as the last, ultimate “Your daddy ain’t putting up with lying, disrespecting, stealing, throwing temper tantrums in public and cheating” final word.
Hard head makes for a soft behind.
Meh. My dad smacked me with a belt a time or two or eight and my grandma used a switch (a weeping willow branch. Yowsa!) While I confess they are some of my most VIVID memories of my youth, I hardly consider them therapy-couch material. In fact, I would much rather have a whack on the ass with a belt than be subjected to the passive/aggression tactics that my mother used, and still uses today. Her silent treatments last for freaking light years.
Now, keep in mind that hugs and kisses outweighed spankings 100 to 1. I think any parent who is quick to whack a child yet never displays physical affection is setting that child up for major trust issues. The belt should definitely be reserved for extreme cases.
This is one of those cultural differences that are just not true. There are people who were whipped and spanked as children who do in fact, as adults, fondly remember the episodes as watershed moments in their childhoods – bizarre as that might sound. However, YMMV as a discliplinarian and as a child on the receiving end of the discipline. The potential for abuse is there, but it is NOT a given.
[* Politely golf claps * ] Brilliant, Shag, absolutely brilliant. Thanks for making my day. FTR I am in full agreement.
I am a big hypocrite on the subject.
In theory, I always felt it would be OK to spank. In practice, I never did. It just never seemed like the right occasion.
The only time I ever came close, I decided not to because I was too angry.
I once made my daughter cry for twenty minutes by telling her I was disappointed in her behavior. But I never spanked her, or my son.
So far, they seem to be turning out pretty well.
Regards,
Shodan
Ahh, Remember the days when you could walk through Walmart and see some kid get’n his ass beat for toughing something he wasn’t supposed to?
Yep, thems were the days.
I have boys, and I spank. I do it mainly out of a fear they will grow up to be push overs if I don’t. Time outs hardly teaches one how to be a Man.
I’m extrapolating from my own personal experiences, so don’t ask me for a cite.
I come from the African American tradition of childrearing that included the occasional “ass whuppin’.” I’m fairly liberal on most things but I am very traditional in that respect. I certainly can recount the whuppins I got (belt or switch) and that kept me in check. It didn’t happen often but it happened enough that when I thought about doing something that would get me into trouble it usually would lead me to make the right choice.
I taught fourth grade in a predominantly Black community and many of my students were disciplined in this manner. We also had corporal punishment in the school (as I did from K-8). I never was punished in this manner, because I knew whatever they were handing out in school, I’d get 10 times worse at home. Come to think of it, I don’t even know if the school had permission to paddle me. I don’t think paddling by strangers is a great idea.
I think the reason why spanking can be effective is that developmentally, the things that work for adults don’t work for children all the time. I was a very intelligent child. So intelligent, that I could usually figure out how to get away with something without getting caught (stealing, stuff like that). My parents were huge about lying though. If you broke something and ‘fessed up contritely, you probably got fussed at and that was that. If you tried to cover it up… whuppin’ time! So my thought process was usually, “Well, if I stay out ten more minutes and finish this kickball game, I could make up a story about my chain coming off my bike… but then my folks will figure out the truth… and then I’m getting a whuppin’. Guess I’ll go home now.” As I got older (middle school age) I realized that the rules of the house were for my own good and my safety, so the higher-level arguments about why not to do X or Y had an effect.
I also recall my parents being very upset after a whuppin’. Not at me, but at the fact that they had to resort to it. That possibly had a equally devastating effect on me.
I’ll say this: growing up in this way, I never had any disciplinary issues at school (well, not until high school, and when I felt I had justifiable reasons for fighting or arguing with teachers), I never got into trouble with the law in any way, and I was always praised for being respectful and cooperative with adults. I’ve earned almost three degrees from prestigious schools and contribute positively to my community. I’m not perfect but I know learning early on that there were very unpleasant consequences to dumb-assed behavior led me to make wise decisions that avoided some of the unpleasantness that life can offer to those who make less wise decisions.
In other words, I’d second what Shagnasty said. Interestingly, Vince Young, quarterback of the national champion Texas Longhorns and the MVP of the Rose Bowl made a statement at his press conference where he thanked his mom and grandmother for the whuppins he received… he said it kept him from making bad choices and put him where he is today.
I do think there is a cultural context that plays into whether someone looks at spanking as a parenting tool or as anathema. Not saying that all Black folks get whuppins or give 'em out, but a large percentage of my Black friends had this experience coming up… where as only a few of my White friends had this experience. (The ones that did, for some reason, all seem to be Italian…)
Realized that I never answered the OP. Yes, I probably will. Especially for lying and disrespect. Not for breaking something on accident, but the “hard-headed nonsense” that Askia refers to.
yep, had to pick a switch or two in my time… damn willow trees!
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Your example number one is rather silly. Aside from being large, my son is also quite intelligent. He wouldn’t argue or fight against a gun. We were talking about spanking and/or physical assault, not assault with a deadly weapon. Can you see the difference?
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Your second scenario is even more silly. First of all, I’m sure it would be your daughter’s contribution that sucked. Secondly, unless your puny little daughter is extremely physically abusive as well as harboring a very strong death wish, she’s hardly likely to physically assault my son to the degree that he’d need to remove any marginal threat she might, inconceivably, be able to conjure up.
Note: I stated that force multipliers were, in my opinion, child abuse. I volunteered for a couple of years at a shelter for little children. I saw kids with marks on them that looked, well, horrendous. Surprisingly enough, many of those kids were resilient enough to lead what seemed to be normal lives when they were removed from the abusive situation. Many did have problems, though.
Now, how much of their problems were based solely on the physical abuse, I don’t know. I’m pretty sure that it (the abuse) didn’t help the situation at all, though.
I’m greatly relieved to discover you think of your son as something other than 6’1" 200+. Now, why the need to bring up your 6’1" 200+ son? Is he 6’1" 200+ because you never spanked him? Or you never spanked him because he’s 6’1" 200+ and you’re afraid of him?
Or what?
Yup, put me in the camp that agrees wholeheartedly with Shagnasty. I will go on to echo something he said in a Pit thread not long ago: you tailor the punishment to fit the child.
Spanking never worked on my son. A quick firm pat on the bottom got my daughter’s attention and curtailed the behavior. But my boy… give him a smack on the bottom and he’d either laugh or keep doing what he was doing. Timeouts, same thing. There are only two things that really work: washing his mouth out with soap and taking away his books. In fact, I don’t even remember the last time I washed his mouth out with soap, as the threat is usually enough to correct the disrespectful attitude/swearing.
This thread seems to be getting nasty, but here’s my 2 cents:
Violence is just as valid an answer as anything else, sometimes more so - this is why we spank our children, defend ourselves against assault and wage wars. Understanding when violence is appropriate and when it is not is a key development point for a child - somebody has to understand that commiting murder will land them in jail and wreck their life, attacking random people will get their ass beat and that the only reason adults maintain authority over children is that we can overpower them physically and intellectually.
I don’t have children, but when I do, I am going to leave any sort of spanking as a last resort. However, I would never let any sort of behavior, especially if it is in public and offensive to others, go uncorrected simply because I’m tired, distracted or busy. Too many children grow up without boundaries, with an overinflated sense of self worth and entitlement. This isn’t a new phenomenon, and has been going on for hundreds of years.
Before he died, my father taught me a very important thing - humility is the chief social virtue, and one has to earn every ounce of their self worth by being proud of their own accomplishments in a global social context. Treat everybody as your superior until you learn otherwise (sometimes fairly quickly). Those are the values I wish to instill in my children that should eliminate the need for spankings, however the world isn’t perfect, and children aren’t a tape recorder. Only time will show how well I can do.
I mentioned it initially because I said that I didn’t think that, currently, spanking him wouldn’t be a viable option. Read the thread for chrissake.
I never spanked him when he was little, either.
What the hell is it with you people? Are you intimidated by an online reference to a kid that’s bigger than you are? Jesus. Get over yourselves. And let’s leave the dubious speculation and non sequiturs aside, shall we?
I thought your mentioning your son’s physical size had something to do with whether or not parents should spank their kids.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, and I wish you and your son all the best.
I was the 3rd of 9 children. I was spanked a lot, and hard, often times with a belt, and I was a good child. The sound of my dad pulling his belt out of the loops was truly terrifying. But I was never given a beating. In pain for a while, but never hard enough to cause an injury. While growing up, and now, looking back, I never felt like I was abused. (One sister thinks she was.) Get this - my youngest brother was never spanked. Not even once. Did my dad change his mind about spanking? Do you raise children differently when you have 8 of them 11 years old and younger compared to a bunch of teenagers in the house and a baby? Probably.
Raised 5 children of my own. Youngest is now 27. I guess I didn’t like getting spanked because I didn’t spank my kids. Technically, that’s not true. When they were old enough to know what a spanking was, if behavior warranted it, they were threatened with a spanking. If they persisted with the inappropriate behavior, I would say, "Okay, you are going to get a spanking. Then I would pat their bottom and send them to their room. They would actually cry, not from pain, but because they had been spanked! Very, very effective.
I get compliments all the time about how great my kids are. You don’t have to inflict pain to get results.