This would be my answer as well. I’m surprised it wasn’t included in the poll choices.
I touched on it a little:
I survived years of being sexually molested as a child; my mother knew it was happening, and wouldn’t put a stop to it. Even though I still harbor hate for the bastard that did it (though he’s been dead for years now), I have a much harder time forgiving my mother to allow it to happen. I have children. A mother’s first and primary job is to protect her children, no matter what. When 10YO mudgirl was sexually molested, she came and told me right away, and I pressed every charge I could against those punks that did that shit to her. My children will never doubt that, in bad situations, I’ve got their backs.
::steps down off soapbox::
I answered “John should not answer the question.”
If I was in a situation like that and got a question like that from one of my sons I would answer simply, “You are my son, and I am here for you no matter what. But it’s not important if I think it’s ok to be who you are. You need to come to terms with who you are independent of how other people feel about it. Because for better or for worse, some people won’t always approve, but that does not give them the right to abuse you. Let’s work on making you comfortable with you, and then we can talk about how other people feel and how to confront that.”
Jack should lie. Even if Diane is not convinced, it is the thought that counts, not the words.
It is quite likely that Jack’s viewpoint on the matter will change over time as he spends more time with his daughter and begins to understand her better. Even if it does not, there is no useful purpose to telling the truth on this issue, at this time. I voted option #6, lie and never tell her otherwise. It is not the role of a father to stand upon principle at the expense of his daughter’s well being.
Honesty is generally preferable. However, a person who is brutally honest at all times is merely a brutal person.
Love, Dad.
Skald, I like you and your threads, but I think you’ve side-stepped a couple of legitimate questions directed at you about why telling the truth has to equate with speaking tactlessly. I get that you believe any action other than an outright lie in this circumstance would make the guy a jerk, but your choice of hypothetical phrasing in post #5 is absurd.
Dealing with any individual who is in a fragile emotional state is a crapshoot. You can’t know for certain what will or won’t provoke an unexpected reaction. I’m not of the mind that walking on eggshells AND having to remember to cover your tracks is the safest path. And I speak as someone who is a terrible liar. I can just imagine myself in the father’s position, trying to say, “No, I have no problem with homosexuality” while my face reads disgust. Talk about dealing a blow to the daughter, if she notices that! I’d much rather have her know that she can trust me with my love and support and honesty than to set her up for possibly greater disappointment later.
I’m surprised that in a forum which seeks to find the truth of situations so many people would advocate lying!
It has been my experience that there are a number of ways to be caring and honest at the same time. Also that to lie to people one purports to love is certain to cause harm to the relationship.
Not all personal questions need to be answered and not all questions need to be answered in the manner which the asker seeks.
Actions speak at least as loudly as words.
I wonder what the correlation between “tell the truth” vs “lie like a rug” answers are compared to posters having kids vs ones not having kids. If lesbians squicked me the hell out (they don’t) I would totally lie if my daughter (who’s 15, how bout that?) were going through the same thing and asked me the same question.
I think I see the ethical issue you’re trying to get at, but the hypothetical isn’t a very good one for getting at it. Because, if Jack is asking, my advice is for him to first get the hell over himelf and his fear-of-his-dick-shrinking homophobia. Once he gets that there’s nothing wrong with his daughter having a healthy loving-and-bumping-uglies relationship with a white man, black man, asian man, Catholic man, Jewish man, Muslim man, white woman, black woman, or any other kind of adult then he can love and support his daughter without lying to her.
And no matter how many times Jack tries to get back to asking me whether he should lie, my answer is always going to be: “No, if you care about her you should truly accept her and tell her that”.
I’ve been switching back and forth between the comments and poll results, comparing people’s comments with their votes. I am surprised at the number of people who voted for something other than “filthy Klingon scum”, yet posted a comment that doesn’t really square with their vote, and would be better described as “you left out <blank>”. “Filthy Klingon scum” should have gotten more votes, going by those comments. Several people have posted thoughts that are what I would have said, so I won’t bother being repetitive.
Complete honesty is overrated but there seems to be a workaround here. Jack could say he finds the idea of same sex relationships squicky but that’s just his opinion, and it’s not meaning that lesbians are bad or dirty or naughty or whatever you could call them without bringing religious fundamentalism into it. Honestly what problem could a man have with lesbians that didn’t involve religion? I don’t even get it.
It’s like having a taste for raw veggies. I don’t like them personally and hate the crunching noises from my daughter eating her carrots, but I can’t say she has less value as a human because she doesn’t like her veggies cooked like I do. I may tease her about her crunching or joke about her breaking teeth but that’s just me being silly. If an approach like that was taken with Jack and Diane I don’t see the harm in honesty.
I haven’t voted because I can’t even see where he’d have a reason to tell her he is against homosexuality for everyone. If it’s religious then he needs to worry about his own body, soul or whatever and tell her he supports her no matter what gender she’s attracted to. It’s really not even his business to be anything other than supportive.
Well hell maybe I’ll pick the “look into his heart” although I loathe the term. I just think he needs to think real good and hard about why he thinks he should be in the position to be anything other than 100% supportive of his daughter and her immediate needs.
i did not vote in the poll - please don’t beat me!
I agree with Anaamika and Torie and several others - in the same spirit. I can’t answer as a parent, I’m not one. But I can answer as a former confused kid, and as a friend.
And I think that letting Diane know that you are not going to lie to her, but you are not going to stop loving her, is a good thing. I think Torie said it very well - because it’s true - some people ARE going to give her a hard time for being a lesbian - and the important thing for her to know is that she needs to be strong for herself.
But given the suicide situation - he needs to buffer his honesty with tons and tons of love and support - because she needs to know she’s loveable, worthy of love, and someone worth living for.
Gary T said this very well. You’re taking a girl who is going to have HUGE trust issues related to parents, and the very first thing you are going to do is lie to her? What happens when she asks you to march with her in the local gay pride parade? Or asks you if you’ll vote for the SSM amendment (probably not an issue in england, but if they move back across the pond…)? Tap dancing or outright lying about the issue is not going to help anyone in the long run. It’s best to let her know that, despite your feelings on it, you will love her and support her and never treat her the way she was treated by her mom and step-dad.
The main guy advocating lying is a notorious evil-doer and not to be trusted. Ask anybody.
It sounds to me like Jack feels about homosexuality the way I feel about pedophilia; unnatural, wrong, and should never be expressed. I don’t see how he can keep up the facade until he decides what he’s going to do. Is he sincerely going to let her live her life? Support her? Is he going to get her over the rough patch and then impose his rules on her? Is he still formulating his feelings, and does he anticipate a softening in his views? Because if he’s going to turn around on her as soon as she’s out of the woods, I hardly see the point in even being in her life now.
I think the first words out his mouth should be “of course not, honey, you’re a beautiful person the way you are, and I love you”; she needs that the way a dying plant needs water. But if he can’t back it up, she needs to have another adult in her life who will support her unreservedly, and if Jack doesn’t have the balls and the decency to introduce her to that person, I really fear for her.
So: lie. Forever, if he can; until she’s stable, if he must. If he can’t be convincing in the long run, it’s better to confess sooner than later, lest her displaced-suicidal-gay-teenager hell be even more hellish because Dad’s acting all stiff and weird.
Folks, seriously: what would you tell your pedophile son if he came to you weeping after being abused by his stepfather?
**Filthy Klingon scum! You left out ** Jack needs to get his butt to PFLAG before he says anything to his daughter. (IOW, he needs an edumacation about homosexuality).
“I put Jack should not answer the question.”
This is actually only partially true, because one could argue that the daughter’s real question is not what Jack thinks of homosexuality but rather what Jack thinks of her. The second question he should answer fully. I like torie’s framing best.
As for why not to lie:
Not answering the exact question as stated is less patronizing than a lie, and much easier to maintain in the long term. This girl has trust issues, and the best way to handle those issues is by being worthy of trust. Plainly he should do everything he can in the short term to make clear unconditional love and support, but if he actively lies about his social views in the process of doing that there is the constant risk that the lie will be exposed. Then the daughter will be left wondering whether Jack lied about the love and support as well.
I didn’t vote, and only skimmed the previous responses (in a hurry here) so I hope I am not repeating anyone else. I think there is a middle ground between lying and brutal honesty, and this is how I think Jack should approach it for Diane’s sake.
Be honest to a point: I have always thought homosexuality was wrong and unnatural.
But be accepting of his daughter: But I have never had a close family member or loved one that was gay. I love you even if I have never agreed with that aspect of sexuality in the past.
And work on his views too: Now that I am closer to the situation, I need to reevaluate my own opinions. I think it is wrong, but then I think you are fine, so maybe I was mistaken and it isn’t as unnatural or evil as I once thought.
And for both their sake, he should probably follow through and maybe re-think his own views on the matter.
I also don’t think there is anything wrong with disliking it, but still loving the daughter and being accepting of her: I think it is wrong and unnatural for me but it must be the right thing for you.
Well put - this. exactly this.
Truth (though softly: “I don’t approve” vs “you’re an evil person”) - but “you’re still my daughter and I love you and maybe we can figure things out together”.
Lie like a rug. She’s fifteen and suicidal. If his beliefs aren’t going to affect his actions, then she doesn’t need to know about them. Ever.
I mean, okay; when I was a little kid, I’d ask my mom if she liked whatever piece of crap art project I had that week, and if it was good, and she always said yes. Now, I am exceedingly awful at arts and crafts. My girl scout leader repeatedly took away my scissors in frustration with my inability to cut. I never learned how to sketch. My sewing projects were freaking awful and showed no sign of improvement. My ornaments for Christmas were half glue.
Now, if she’d said, “well, actually, it’s kind of bad; you broke your macaroni and tried to glue it together with a a thimbleful of Elmer’s. Also, your cuts were kind of jagged. And no one uses a black permanent marker to decorate a Christmas tree. But you’re my daughter, and I love what you make, no matter what,” I wouldn’t have heard “I love what you make.” I would have heard, “you suck.”
Same thing. More serious, but still the same thing. She’s not going to hear, “I’ll love you no matter what.” She’s going to hear, “you’re wrong.” He needs to lie. Anything else is fucking selfish.