The last Gran Prix race I saw there was NO passing in the turns, the car that made it to the turn first was not passed - and I walked to every turn on the track.
Wanna talk about all conditions, ever hear of the Baja 1000? Yep American iron 4x4’s rulein’ the trail in Mexico.
Of course the GMC Cyclone and the Typhoon are AWD turbo’s that were done long before the WRX - and W6’s
Yep, if you only sell 10,000 cars per year ya only gotta to sell a few more to improve by a large percentage.
Man, we even race belt sanders and lawn tractors in the US
I still remain skeptical about a pickup (Cyclone, Typhoon) with no towing capacity and a useless bed. But that’s just me. It verges on ricer territory. Go, show, but where’s the use?
And, of course, there’s still something faster than that V-6. It generates over 3,600 horsepower, and shows up on a drag strip.
Jet and rocket cars! Yes, clearly superior.
Seriously, in a discussion on how Big Iron is superior to Ricer… need a better term. High Rev Racing? we really should stick to Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday cars. Nothing that can’t be driven on the road. How’s that sound?
And how is 130 lb-ft of torque at 2000 RPM? Respectable? Or do you want better numbers, for a 2500 pound car?
Here’s some hard stats for the pre-modified cars.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/57200/article.html
Toyota is about to pass all domestic producers as #1 in total sales.
Blown and injected, you prefer drag racing…other people prefer road course, or rally, or even oval…who gives a damn what kind it is?
I personally think that to be a performance car, you should have the ability to stop and turn as well as go straight. You feel differently…go race your 1/4 miles and quit raggin on people who build cars that perform in different arenas than yours.
SamStone–American companies DO participate in the WRC, as well as most Japanese companies…and there is, in fact, an American Rally racing circuit here in the states.
Godamn I’m so sick of this shit. Domestics vs. imports…drag cars vs. rally vs autocross…people are going to drive and race and build whatever they hell they want, if it is different than what you happen to be interested in, who gives a fuck? What skin is it off of anyone’s back?
I hear this shit in the motorcycle world too…Harley blah blah blah vs. sportbikes blah blah blah
I ride sportbikes, and race one…I personally have no use for a cruiser, and hate their performance, but I see how for some people it’s exactly what they want.
live and let live, and have fun with what YOU do.
About the whole Nissan Skyline issue. The OP was about ricers. People who put huge wings on their cars, lower them beyond belief and fill them with stickers to the point of absurdity. And above all, put a big old fat annoying fart tip on it.
Nobody said that some Asian cars are fast. How did that even get brought up. I don’t think anybody is going to claim that a Skyline (which isn’t street legal in the US) or an NSX is fast. We all know they are!!
This post is about people who think they are the shit and that their car is fast because of some decal or, the rims it has on it. So, please, stop fighting over whether the skyline is fast or not!
JaxBeachBoy and kgriffey79:
I agree, and even in muscle car bb’s people get tired of the, yeah if I put $10K into my suspension and brakes…
My first post to this thread was very close to Sam’s feelings. I was just defending the muscle car. Like the OP, I am kinda tired of the “ricer” acting like they are the hottest shit on the road and making apples to oranges type comparisons.
I even said who am I to judge. I realize, as Sam pointed out, it is kinda silly to have a 500 HP car that I primarily use to haul groceries; I’ll park the commuter car or the truck, after passing the store on my way home, just to take the fun car to the store 
Frist point- idiots who put Type R badges on their cars that aren’t Type R’s (or haven’t done the conversion) should be beat over the head with a nitrous bottle.
Second- You won’t see the Skyline around here becuase it isn’t sold in the US. The REALLY good japanese cars, like the Skyline, the Sylvia, the Civic Type R, and who knows how many others, don’t get imported to the US. They won’t pass the smog laws, or the crash standard, or the US laws won’t allow them to send in cars that are superior to the US market cars.
The TT Supra stock driveline can handle almost 1000 hp. The Skyline, the Sylvia, the Nissan 300zx. I’m sure there are more out there.
I’ve got a thread in MPSIMS… ask the Import Racer. Feel free to ask any questions there. It’s obvious this thread is going downhill fast.
There’s some purple low-rider truck with dualies around here in town somewhere. Easily one of the ugliest things I have ever seen.
Gee, the fact that no V10s or 12s do that doesn’t have anything to do with the rules of all top fuel races I’ve seen specifying V8s, does it? No, that couldn’t be it.
I meant to say that nobody said that some Asian cars AREN’T fast. Which would cause somebody to defend them and bring up the skyline. And Blown and Injected I’m totally with you.
Reply to 1, Straight line racing is the fastest racing done in a straight line, period
Reply to 2, Lots of cars turn out more than 6000bhp in such racing, straight line racing, so what ?In the end it boils down to who has most money and time, not who is the best all round driver.
Reply to 3 F1, Formula 3000,Formula Ford,even kart racing fercryinoutloud, and just about all of the other circuit racers, incuding street circuits use the old racing axiom, straights are just there to join the corners, in other words its the corners where you prove the mettle of the driver and car, who cares about straight lines…only in America…or a few America wannabees in the UK at Santa Pod.
Reply to 4, If you are going too fast to make a turn, you are not in control, and that is what racing is all about.
Not much of this is applicable to ‘ricers’ anyway since these are road cars and the point you were making is that you can go faster in a straight line, so what ? who cares ? bragging ? Feeling a little insecure are we?
Cars are not just sold on power, but also, maybe mostly, on reaching something within the purchaser.
Japanese cars sell in tens of millions around the world, American cars do not, seems to me that the world consumer has already decided the merits of Japanese cars, they like cars that can do whatever they want, reliable and cheaply, and in some cases extremely fast, around corners if need be.
The world has voted with its money, and ‘ricers’ win by miles.
I also think that there is a huge arrogance here, what on earth makes you think you are the arbiter of world taste ?
You may not like what you see, so what ? Those kids love what they do and don’t care at all about your opinion, and why should they ?
[quote]
Originally posted by enipla
Oh yes, rice mobiles. Not too many where I live. The super low profile tires and tiny wheels kill me.
It’s not like the engineers at Honda etal, knew what they where doing when they matched the tires and wheels to the suspension.[\quote]
Try reading my post again. It’s called sarcasm.
Who’s the dumbass?
What other race cars are making 6,000HP - none that I’ve ever heard of. And I still don’t see much passing in the turn in any road racing, making it basically a drag race to the next turn.
Power is what most of the fun and use is all about. When there are a couple of cars going down the road, the primary contest will be everybody hitting it and the winner is the one who is out in front. Really, how often is somebody going to be running full out in the turns? If one truly runs on the edge, that edge will occasionally be crossed, and in a turn that means a crash and a seriously damaged car.
As far as world taste, my friend form Switzerland tells me big American cars are all the rage, BUT because of protectionism and taxes, American cars overseas are WAY high $$$$. Sounds like the world is voting with their wallet! Oh yeah, reading back I see you said voted with money not taste.
Why should they? “They” don’t have to care. “They” are the ones usually talkin’ trash with the high dollar modern cars. Boy that is acting tough in a parking lot full of 25 year old cars that only cost $6K when new.
I still say: Just bring it on baby, the bullshit stops when the green flag drops! - Does that answer your question about insecurity?
BTW, My old muscle car only pulls .87g’s lateral acceleration as tested by the car magazines in stock trim. With better tires, shocks, and stiffer springs, I’m sure it is much better than that. But I’ve got to say about the rice that I’ve wasted my gas on, I could have stopped, gotten out of my car and had a smoke before the ricer finally made it to the turn.
So you’ve never heard of touring car racing as an example of a race series that has plenty of overtaking, jostling, huge power on a circuit. Pity that, touring cars are acknowledged to be among the most entertaining form of circuit racing there is.
Power is certainly an attractive part of racing, but straightlining is about power and nothing else.
As for .87gs lateral, pretty impressive, but the Skyline does it easily and in total control, whats more you have a display that you see whilst you are doing it, not that this is a good idea to watch during the activity.
High corner speed is what most of the rest of the world tests its drivers and cars on, you might get to the corner quick, but you will soon be passed in a series of corners, no problems and in all liklehood by a ricer.
Clue for you, few crace circuits are known by their famous straights, excepting the famous Mulsanne straight at Le Mans, but every good circuit is known by its fearsome and intimidating corners, perhaps the greatest corner in all of racing is the Eau Rouge at Spa in Belgium.
Cars and circuits are intimately connected, sure we can put cars together that will do 200mph+ continuously, but we find such racing so tedious that we can only deem such activity a true test when we run it over an extended period such as 24hours, not, you will note, a poxy 1/4 mile.
The rest of the world finds that high speed corner racing is where it’s at, ‘ricers’ tend to operate in rally, rallycross, or touring car racing, and it is this look that the wanabee ‘ricer’ racers try to achieve, or partly based on it.(I’ll keep off the subject of F1 which is effectively prototype tracing)
I can see how such a look would be alien in culture to someone who thinks that a 1/4 mile time trial is the ultimate test of machine and driver, but the rest of the world seems to think differantly.
The end result is that US cars simply do not cut it in the rest of the world, sure there are a few fans of US cars all over the world, but those are not the cars that are purchased, I cannot recall the last American car that was truly a ‘World Car’ in the sense of say a Toyota Corrolla, I’m sure someone can help me out.
Some Americans are extremely parochial in nature, and cannot countenance those who take their auto-styling cues from a wider world, this seems, not sad exactly-each to their own- but the whole idea of live and let live, finding something to admire in another persons joy, your dismissal of another car culture is sad, for you mainly, as you are missing out on a richness in life.
The reason why you might find lots of cubes are good on 1/4 miles is simply that most circuit racing with corners relies on high revs to achieve high power from low weight engines.
It takes time to get to those high revs, ‘ricers’ are made to keep that high engine speed and get the drive out of the corners using gears and keeping those revs up, I would like to see your 70’s dinasaur up against anything with even mild sporting pretensions on a circuit, not an oval, sure you’d get down the straight to the first corner fastest, but the weight of the car would demand much earlier braking, you would then have to go wide to keep up your speed, or slow down more to make it tighter, meanwhile your ‘ricer’ would have braked 50 yards later, and got on the gas 50 yards sooner, taken a tighter line, kept a higher corner speed, and be flat and stable and lined up for the next corner almost before exiting the first.
The dinasaur would be upside down at this point, raising sparks and sliding on its roof.
‘Ricers’ are looking to the world markets, dinasaurs are looking at an extended driveway.
Guess which sells best across the world.
If a Vette were allowed, in the “rest of the world”, to be sold for $45K I believe there would be many more in the “rest of the world” and the same would be true for the rest of the Ford’s and GM’s. But as I already mentioned, protectionist taxes do not permit the world to chose fairly with “their wallets.”
And I would love to do 0 to 330 MPH in less than 5 seconds - that would be an unbelievable thrill.
And I have said many times in this thread that it is silly for one car group to bust on another, but when faced with your holier than thou attitude, I’ll speak up, or as ZZ Top says, I’ll let the machine speak!
Insecure??? Ha! When them cheap old dinosaurs are constantly challenged by the young state of the art expensive cars, and those cars just can’t seem to keep up - well, no insecurity here.
It’s not just the protectionist taxes. In Europe were gas costs $3 per gallon, mileage is king. Plus, much of the driving infrastructure is built on older roads that are in average condition and often very narrow. Parking space is at a premium. Etc.
So, it’s no wonder that performance enthusiasts in Europe would tend to take small cars that get good gas mileage and attempt to wring the most performance out of them.
In America and Canada, gas is cheaper, and distances are large. The roads are in good condition. So we tend to lean towards bigger, heavier cars with more power.
Why do you have to knock the other guy’s choices in order to enjoy your own?
As for racing, every type of racing has its good and bad points. I find indy car racing to be relatively boring, but that’s because I don’t follow it and don’t see the nuances. That’s typically the case with all sports. I’m riveted to the screen when billiards is on TV, because I used to play seriously and I could appreciate the strategy and talent. On the other hand, basketball to me looks like a bunch of guys trotting back and forth throwing baskets, and after they’ve done it 30 or 40 times I find it plain boring. I’m sure I wouldn’t if I understood and appreciated the game.
Drag racing is mostly a test of engineering skill. Drivers matter, but not that much. Drag racing is fun to watch for most people, because it’s loud, it’s fast, it’s exciting, and the crashes are spectacular. For enthusiasts, it’s fun to look at the various solutions teams take for making horsepower and getting it onto the pavement. I think most people enjoy watching a drag race.
Circuit races are another matter. To the uniniated, it can look awfully boring. For one thing, the sense of speed just doesn’t come through on TV. I’m always amazed when a crash happens and you suddenly realize just how fast those cars are going, because it looks like they are going 100mph. Plus, after an hour of watching cars go around in circles it can just get dull for some.
But my assertion is that if a car company wants to get involved in a form of racing that really results in well rounded sports cars on the street, rally racing like the WRC or road racing on real streets is it. Because those cars have to be very well rounded. They have to be powerful, they have to handle well on all surfaces, and they have to be very strong. A one-trick pony just doesn’t cut it. Detroit makes a lot of cars that have tremendous skid-pad numbers, but lose a lot of that performance on real roads. A mustang with a tuned suspension and big tires can turn in great skidpad numbers, but on rough pavement that solid axle just doesn’t work well in high speed driving. A WRX, on the other hand, gets relatively low skidpad numbers in comparison, but it can achieve that performance on a variety of surfaces. And on gravel, snow, ice, rain, or even just a road with a film of contaminants, the WRX will eat a Mustang for lunch.
Lol buy american, heil hitler!
That’s about the gist of this entire thread.
Mongol,
irrespective of your race, gender, creed, sexuality or politics you are most assuredly a fucking moron.
You guys are missing the real car for racing, the Aston Martin DB7. With a V12 cranking out 435HP, it is the car of champions. At $162,000, it is the car of rich champions.
Seconded.
Do you actually read ANYTHING, Mongol?