WTF? Don't touch my baby without asking!

[kittenblue]

Icarus is right…we all need to lighten up about germs. If the Precious’ immune system is that delicate, the trip through the store alone would do the worst damage.

I helped deliver a baby a few weeks ago…held the mother’s legs up, and her feet, got to cut the cord, and got blood on my hands. The midwife reassured me that I’d be fine, which I thought was odd because I wasn’t concerned at all, and she gave me a dry towel to wipe my fingers off with. Then the staff gave me the baby to hold and cuddle, and never once asked me to wash first or anything. So after a while, when the baby is sticking my fingers in her mouth, I remember that I hadn’t washed my hands, but the staff said nothing to any of us in the room with the mom. They were gloved, but us “family” members were not. And the baby is fine. I have the feeling that just in reading this, some of your are cringing and feeling around you for an antiseptic wipe, but I don’t get that worked up about germs.

But drippy-nosed kids? That’s a line I’d draw in the sand. Pesticides from touching bananas? You touched them too.

[kittenblue]

Sheesh. I apparently forgot to read the whole second page…I didn’t realize how ill your child has been, and didn’t know you didn’t touch the produce. I stand corrected.

[eleanorigby]

Where to start?

First, sounds like you were involved in the birth of a healthy, full term baby–already we are comparing apples and oranges.

Also, while I don’t think that the staff should have been so blase about your lack of basic hygiene, remember you are probably known to this new mom (unless you have taken to gatecrashing birthing rooms and that is another issue) and most likely SHARE the same “colonies” of germs. One more thing: sounds to me like you had an intact integumentary system, IOW-no cuts on your hands/arms. If you did indeed have so much as a hangnail and the staff did not advise you to wear gloves–to protect yourself-than they did not act resposibly.

I am also sure that after you held baby etc-baby was given a good wipe down and eyedrops etc were applied (or is that also a disservice?).

The staff were gloved to protect baby and mom and you from them and to protect them from you. Google Semmelweis to find out why health care professionals are somewhat “anal” about hygiene.
Don’t be compalcent-RSV can be deadly, as can salmonella, croup, chicken pox, measles, un-monitored otitis media, scarlet fever and a many other common bugs.
What is OK for most is not neccesarily OK for all.

[eleanorigby]

kittenblue-you are too quick for me! Didn’t see your post, sorry!

[Liz]

I think what some of you folks are missing is that WhyBaby isn’t a typical bouncing 9-month delivery – she was born four months early. Compromised immune system. A cold for a typical baby can be respiratory distress and a trip to the ER for her.

Yes, she’ll pick up this and that by going through the grocery store, and that’s helpful in building her immunity, but she doesn’t need every fuckin’ virus in the place, which is what WhyNot is trying to prevent. All she’s asking is that people not touch her baby without permission, it’s not like she’s wrapping her up in Saran and screaming like a shrew at anyone who dare come closer than six inches.

I don’t presume to speak for her, but – don’t you think WhyNot wishes she could let people bounce the little one around without a second thought? Don’t you think she wishes she didn’t have to be so vigilant? Come on. Of course she does. Unfortunately, that’s not the case. It will be one day, WhyBaby will catch up soon and be able to happily spread snot from here to tomorrow, but right now it’s better to err on the reasonably safe side.

And she understands that people don’t mean any harm, I think, she just wants them to know that they can cause harm. And that’s the thing – I don’t have children and don’t have a ton of exposure to premie babies, so there’s no way I can know if the feet I’m tickling belong to a prem or not. I had never thought it about, but now I will, and admire the cute ones with my hands to myself.

[Rushgeekgirl]

I’m a million percent with weirddave. And I’ll go further - I think you people have serious ISSUES. Jesus, babies are made to interact with their environment and with strangers too, believe it or not. Humans interact with babies through touch. It’s natural. Get over it. Your children are going to be afraid of EVERYTHING by the time you’re done with them. They’re going to think every stranger is a potential sex offender or disease carrier or God knows

Oh that’s just ridiculous. Who sounds hysterical now?
To even suggest that we think people are potential sex offenders just because we DO NOT KNOW their habits or desires does not make us rabidly overprotective.
You know, it’s not just about germs and preemies. My baby was three weeks late and healthy as a horse. I STILL do not want any STRANGER touching her, especially without asking. There’s absolutely no reason for this to ever occur unless it’s an emergency situation.
Babies DO need to learn to interact and my Bella is doing an excellent job- you don’t have to interact through TOUCH. She interacts vocally even at her young age of six months. She sees them, they see her. She hears them, they hear her. She* smells * them, they* smell * her. Why a stranger needs to interact by touching her with hands that I DO NOT KNOW where they’ve been is beyond my understanding. Especially when they want to put their fingers on her cheeks where she could easily grab them and take them to her mouth just like she does with everything else.
I was the same with my first and she’s a teen now, not afraid of strangers but she still doesn’t like it when they come up and touch her. Is that so bloody abnormal?

[monstro]

@Askia

You’re preaching to the choir talking to me – until recently I was a kindergarten teacher for five years – but IMHYUCO if the average young black women allows herself to have unprotected sex resulting in an unplanned pregnancy, she’s not terribly concerned with sperm or germs.

I believe people are getting upset that you felt the need to put in “average young black women”. If you’re talking about women who exhibit a certain behavior–those having unprotected sex–why the need for the “average young black woman” comment?

You have no data to back up your claim that the average young black women is not concerned with germs, sperms, or anything else. So yes, you are out of line. I wouldn’t deign to touch another person’s child without their permission. I’m also conscientious about germs and keeping clean–just like the rest of the black women I know. So stop it with the “this is black people’s culture” crap. It isn’t.

Your post was insulting. Please stop defending it.

[Belowjob2.0]

(Apologies for the thread hijack)

In 2000, 69 percent of births to African American women were to unwed mothers – compared with 22 percent for non-Hispanic whites and 42 percent for Hispanics. The teen birth rate for blacks decreased by 26 percent, to 85 births per 1,000 teens, between 1991 and 1998.

http://www.prcdc.org/summaries/blacks/blacks.htmlhttp://www.prcdc.org/summaries/blacks/blacks.html

The numbers seem to support Askia’s assertion, though the number of teen births seems to be trending downward from an extemely high level.

Are we going to deny that a large number of young black women have been bearing children thoughtlessly, and often end up not caring for these children properly? Are we going to deny that AIDS is threatening to become the number one killer of black women, largely due to unprotected sex?

[FaerieBeth]

My babies were not preemies, but I still don’t want anyone touching them without permission. You simply do not go up to strange people and start touching them. Of course this excludes meeting someone and shaking hands, and emergency situations like pulling back a child about to get run over by a shopping cart. We’re talking about just casually walking up to someone you don’t know and touching their baby. Without preamble. And yes it happens, because it happened to me. Women of all kinds would just drift by my shopping cart or stroller and put their hands on the baby. Without asking. Without even speaking to me at all.

Would you like it if a complete stranger came up to you and caressed your head in a grocery store? Would you enjoy a strange man coming along to pat your wife on the bottom and tell you how attractive he thought she was? Maybe it would be okay if he just tweaked her cute little boobies, because you know, women enjoy interacting with other people, plus they need to be exposed to germs!

[Helen_s_Eidolon]

@WhyNot

. Look back at my posting history and see the statements I have firmly and consistently made against anti-bacterial items around the house, compulsive handwashing and mandatory vaccination. (OK, maybe I haven’t been vocal about that last one, but yeah, I’m against it.) You’re right, babies need to be exposed to germs to develop an immune system.

I really don’t mean to hijack, but I’m a little confused. Vaccination is safe exposure to pathogens in order to build up an immune response to non-safe exposures to those pathogens. How does that get classed in?

Sorry about all those rude folks. I just don’t get people sometimes.

[monstro]

@Belowjob2.0

(Apologies for the thread hijack)

http://www.prcdc.org/summaries/blacks/blacks.htmlhttp://www.prcdc.org/summaries/blacks/blacks.html

The numbers seem to support Askia’s assertion, though the number of teen births seems to be trending downward from an extemely high level.

Are we going to deny that a large number of young black women have been bearing children thoughtlessly, and often end up not caring for these children properly? Are we going to deny that AIDS is threatening to become the number one killer of black women, largely due to unprotected sex?

HOW IN IS THIS RELATED TO THE OP AT ALL!!!

I’M SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW!!! I NEED A SCREAMING EMOTICON!!

[uglybeech]

@eleanorigby

. Comparing strangers who want to coochie-coo a baby to sex offenders is just plain weird. Way to generalize.

Way to take me totally out of context.

I was comparing parents, not “offenders” (or imaginary offenders). i.e. the parents who don’t let their kids walk to school alone for fear of rampant predators to the bubble-baby parents who think that strangers coochie-cooing their kids is practically a criminal offense.

But if you want to jump all over somebody, kindly savage Guinastasia who actually did compare compare them, three separate times in three separate posts:

@Guinastasia

Who the hell thinks it’s a good idea in this day and age to touch people’s children at random? Holy shit, I’d be afraid someone would scream, “KIDNAPPER!!!”

@Guinastasia

In this day and age, I’d be far to afraid someone would start accusing me of being a perv or something, anyways.

@Guinastasia

And I know it sounds far-fetched, but considering how paranoid people are these days when it comes to kids and strange adults, I’m not taking any chances.

__

@Rushgeekgirl

To even suggest that we think people are potential sex offenders just because we DO NOT KNOW their habits or desires does not make us rabidly overprotective.

First of all this sentence doesn’t parse. But correct me if I’m wrong, aren’t you trying to say that you do think of people as potential sexual offenders because you don’t know them? It’s sort of my point.

@WhyNot

Fuck. You. You have no idea what we’ve been through with this baby, what her doctor’s told us to do or how much of an immune challenge she can handle right now. I interact with my baby through touch. So does my husband, my son, my mother, my girlfriends, my grandmother, my uncle and anyone else who asks me first and washes their hands.

Are you a pediatrician? Are you my daughter’s pediatrician? 'Cause she and my husband are the only ones besides me who gets a say in the medical care of this little baby.

I actually wasn’t referring to you. I was, as I stated, agreeing with weirddave, who was explicitly telling everyone ELSE but you to lighten up about the baby-touching thing. I guess I needed to reiterate the caveat for my own post too and I wish I had. I have no problem seeing why you as the traumatized anxious mother of a preemie have every right to want to cut off the hands of anyone who would even think of touching your baby.

[Elza_B]

OT, but WhyNot, is that a Maya wrap? I LOVE those. I’d order one for my SIL, who’s due in October, but she and my brother would accuse me of going all crunchy on them (for two former hippies, I’m rather surprised that they’re planning on going traditional with my nephew). I’ve seen some of my friends’ babies in them and I can’t wait to have one of my own so I can cart him/her around in it. It looks SO snuggly!

As far as your little one, your baby, your rules. My SIL’s already complaining at 6 months pregnant about how people are always coming up to her and touching her belly - and it’s pissing her off. WTF is wrong with people that they think it’s okay to invade someone else’s personal space?

E.

[Zoe]

WhyNot: You have no idea what we’ve been through with this baby, what her doctor’s told us to do or how much of an immune challenge she can handle right now.

And the reality is that the people in the grocery store don’t know what you’ve been through with this baby… I truly sympathize with your concerns and, under the circumstances, I would not want to take any chances either. If she had been perfectly healthy from the beginning, I don’t think I would worry about it. Your reality is that she is delicate and their reality is that they are going to want to touch her when you go to the grocery store.

Since neither of those realities is likely to change, what are you going to do to solve the problem?

Cultural differences do matter because they determine what we think of as appropriate or inappropriate. There is not just “one right way” of doing things.

[Guinastasia]

I wasn’t SAYING that everyone is sex offender. I’m saying, some people DO feel that way, and I wouldn’t want to happen upon one, just to pinch some random baby’s cheek.

Jesus.

[uglybeech]

@Guinastasia

I wasn’t SAYING that everyone is sex offender. I’m saying, some people DO feel that way, and I wouldn’t want to happen upon one, just to pinch some random baby’s cheek. Jesus.

Whatever. All I was saying is you were a much more appropriate target for eleanor’s sub-pit than me. But her complaint was out of context and bogus in either case so I should have just left it at that.

But you’re an interesting case - paranoid about other people’s paranoia. I don’t know where this is all going to end but it’s not going to be pretty.

[FaerieBeth]

@uglybeech

I was comparing parents, not “offenders” (or imaginary offenders). i.e. the parents who don’t let their kids walk to school alone for fear of rampant predators to the bubble-baby parents who think that strangers coochie-cooing their kids is practically a criminal offense.

Not criminal, certainly, but rude and out of line to do it without the consent of the parent.

[Ashes_Ashes]

Put me in the group that says to ask first, it’s only polite. I’m far from an expert on the subject, but I can see the logic in building up immunity through exposure. However, better safe than sorry. If the parent is ‘normal’ they’ll say yes when you ask. If the parent is a germaphobe, they’ll say no when you ask. But since you’ve asked, in either circumstance, you’ll avoid health concerns and/or hurt feelings over perceived poor ettiquette.

Or how about, since the problem is that the touchers and the touchees don’t know each other’s circumstances, I propose signs. ‘I’m a preemie, please don’t touch’ and maybe a picture of a hand chucking a baby’s chin with a big red line through it. There’s got to be somewhere fairly prominant you can place the sign.

I’m not sure if I’m half-joking or half-serious.

[WhyNot]

@Elza B

OT, but WhyNot, is that a Maya wrap? I LOVE those.

I really, insanely love my Maya Wrap. It’s been my favorite for a few years now as a newborn nanny, and I’ve had to use 'em all. Now I pretty much insist on the Maya Wrap as a condition of employment! It’s just so much easier, more versitile and far better on the back than any front or back carrier I’ve ever used. I’m not a small girl; I’m a big enough girl that my own body weight is tough on my back and knees some days. The Maya wrap really distributes the weight of even toddlers well enough so that I can carry them for hours with no stress. [/OT]

@Zoe

And the reality is that the people in the grocery store don’t know what you’ve been through with this baby…

See, that’s the thing that I don’t think I’m getting across well enough here. People DO know she’s a premie, because they always, without fail say, “Oh! She’s a little one! How old is she?” From about 20 feet away and closing. “She’s almost five months, but she was born four months early,” is my script, followed by, “It was pretty scary at the beginning, but we’ve been so lucky!” 20-30 times I say that, just getting through the grocery shopping. Clerks, shoppers, everyone. This baby is an attention magnet.

I think she draws so much attention because she’s so tiny, yet is very “present” in a way which newborns aren’t. So there’s a five month old looking out of the face of a newborn, which is odd, even if people can’t pinpoint it. Even for her adjusted age (3 weeks), she’s only between the 5th and 10th percentile for height and weight. She’s a little peanut, but she’s growing!

Since neither of those realities is likely to change, what are you going to do to solve the problem?

You’re right that I should focus on the solution. I just found out that it was a problem requiring a solution, because while the questions are not new, this touching behavior was a surprise, and very new. I suppose I have a few options:

I could avoid that store and others in the neighborhood for another two months until her doctor clears her for more general contact. Pros: avoiding an area where I know touchy people shop. Cons: avoiding really nice people and the cheaper prices I really need right now.

I could tuck her further into the Maya Wrap so she’s not exposed to view. Pros: keeping her covered would make it impossible for people to touch her. Cons: it can get pretty hot, and her favorite position requires her legs to be exposed for stability. Also, she doesn’t like having her head trapped in it - she wants to look around.

I could stop being nice and conversational when people ask me how old she is. Pros: A perfunctory, “One month.” might discourage further contact. Cons: I really enjoy talking to people and she’s pretty much my only topic of conversation right now! Getting out of the house and having a chat with an adult is a valuable thing for a new (again) mom.

Cultural differences do matter because they determine what we think of as appropriate or inappropriate. There is not just “one right way” of doing things.

I agree, which is why hidden in that rant (written, of course, from my own cultural perspective) was an honest question about the mores of other cultures. Learning that there may be some cultural influence makes me more…well, not more accepting, exactly, but it helps to see where other people are coming from. It also helps me to decide how to handle it to best protect her and not be offensive to others needlessly.

uglybeech, thank you for clarifying, and I take back the nasty words. Yes, it did seem like you were saying I and other people had issues for being concerned with my baby specifically. I still don’t think that people should be touching older babies without asking their parents first, but I’d dial back the grr if I was replying to you knowing that you were excepting premies specifically.

But you’re an interesting case - paranoid about other people’s paranoia.

That’s a good way to describe anyone who has close contact with other people’s children, actually. Teachers, doctors, nannies - we all have to be vigilant (or paranoid, if you prefer) and always keep in mind that we are totally at the mercy of the child and family in the case of an abuse charge. We must keep this in mind so we can protect ourselves by keeping doors open, by clearly comminicating with the parents the type and duration of appropriate touching and getting clear and prior permission to do so. Anything else leaves us wide open to allegations of abuse. I don’t think Guin’s too far off base, though it saddens me that we’ve gotten so litigous and afraid of one another.

[Ca3799]

Well, I certainly understand Whynots complaints and find them reasonable having has a 23 weeker myself.

Mine was on a Dr ordered one year respiratory isolation after he was discharged from the hospital and on oxygen for 9 months. He rarely got to go anywhere but still managed to contract RSV and spend a week in the hospital soon after coming home. Probably people would have been afraid to touch him cause he all all that medical junk hanging off of him.

Sounds like babywhynot is in better shape than my rascal was. He’s 7 now and I’m totally over it- that’s why I keep bringing it up (where are those smiley choices?).

I do recall being slightly suspicious that my baby might be ugly, and that people were just being polite when they saw him. So, when they were checking him out, I’d be checking them out to see their reactions. Mostly, I covered his head and just let his feet poke out if I thought ‘touchers’ might be nearby. I swear I was psycho then!

Anyway, I don’t recall if I touched ‘public’ babies before (probably not), but I certainly don’t now.