yes, I'm shooting blanks...now what

In My Humble Opinion
1

Found out yesterday that I’m officially shooting blanks…nothing more can be done about it. I had surgery in May to help boost the little buggers numbers…didn’t help (numbers low, not real good swimmers). OK, now what?? Told myself & wife long before surgery, that was as far as I was willing to go…but now that it failed I’m having 2nd thoughts.

I always felt that going further into fertility problems was kinda like playing God (and I ain’t qualified). I always felt if something was meant to be, it would happen and that how dare I not be satisfied with all the blessings I do have. I always felt all the fertility techniques were kinda de-humanizing. If I’m going to be a father, I’d rather have it happen thru shagging the wife, not in a cold doctor’s office.

I’ve always been on the fence, my wife says she is too, but I think she is feeling the clock tick and is seeing all her friends and family do it and kinda wants it more than she lets on.

I already feel like kind of a hypocrite for even having my surgery. So much for letting nature take it’s course. But now…Am I nuts? Or over-analyzing? What are your experiences both w/ fertility issues and the big moral dillemas (sp) they produce?

2

Would you let nature take its course for other illnesses, like, say, a removable cancer? Why treat this particular disorder differently? It seems to me that all medicine is playing god, in that the decision to apply medical knowledge always alters the course of the recipient’s life in some fashion.

If you and your wife both want a child, I would think that the ends (having and raising a child) would outweigh preference for a different means.

3

Can’t agree, Catalyst. Given the cost, and the emotional and moral issues involved, the means have to be considered at all times here.

We had to deal with fertility issues at the outset. Fortunately, this was merely a hormonal problem on my wife’s part that was easily corrected in our case.

We now have three kids, all of them in diapers, so obviously we have far different problems than you do.

I don’t know what to tell you, digger, except that you have to chart a path that is right for you and your wife. Come to an agreement now about what strategies you can support and which you can’t.

In our case, for instance, we would have had a big problem using IVF because of the cost and also because of a religious objection to it. Less invasive procedures we would have gone with. Likewise adoption.

Again, this is very easy for me to say, since these issues were resolved easily in our case. Up against the wall like you are, it is a lot harder. But the fact that it is harder means you and your wife have to be on the same side in all of this.

Good luck.

4

Well. This bites. I can sympathize with exactly how much it bites, because we’re going through the same thing right now. Mr. Stuff has a very low sperm count, and we don’t know if anything can be done or not.

Right now, while we would consider artificial insemination, we are not considering IVF, because we have ethical and religious questions about it. That position is also a financial one, by the way. IVF is frightfully expensive, and there are no guarantees at the end of the day. If it comes to that, we will choose adoption. It is also frightfully expensive, but you do get a child at the end of it.

I heartily agree with Mr. Moto’s advice that you and your wife need to get on the same side in this. Tension between me and my husband has been the hardest part of a terribly difficult time. We love each other very much and communicate as well as we can, and it’s still really hard. Even when we agree completely on the best path, our emotional responses are pretty different. I think this is almost always the case.

May I encourage you to be very gentle with your wife? Even if she is on the fence about having children, she may really struggle in the future. I could go on about my experiences here, but I don’t want to hijack your thread with a lot of info about the emotional stuff. I do think it’s hard to separate the emotions from the logic in this particular struggle, though.

I get this, to a certain extent. However … if I ever do get pregnant, I assure you that I will not give a rip whether I was in bed with my husband, in a cold doctor’s office, or on a raft in the middle of Lake Erie when conception took place. For me at least, it’s not a reason not to see what the doctors can do. Even while I hate feeling like a science experiment, it’s something I’m willing to endure.

I don’t know if any of this will help clarify things for you, but at the least, please know there is someone else out there struggling through this too.

Please be gentle if I have any spelling or grammatical errors. I do my best, but this is a pretty emotional thing for me, so I’m not so focused on commas when I’m talking about it.

5

Perhaps the message you are hearing (do things naturally or not at all) is incorrect. Maybe fertility work was created especially for you to take advantage of… just a thought.

I worked in a fertility clinic for several years. Not eveyone who came in really wanted the services.

Some didn’t really care about actually having a baby, but just wanted to be pregnant (or fertile).

Some didn’t care to be pregnant, but just wanted a baby.

When we identified people or couples who didn’t have clear goals, we referred them an excellent counseling service to help people sort out the issues and find out what was really important to them.

These are big questions. Your OB-GYN, RE, or urologist should have some names handy of quality counselors who can help you find the right answers for you by asking the right questions and helping to clarify your goals. Don’t be afraid to ask for a referral!

Best Wishes!

6

“Even while I hate feeling like a science experiment, it’s something I’m willing to endure.”

And try to remember that conception and pregnancy are only a very small part of parenting.

7

Remember, blanks can still be fatal. You might think it would be funny to hold your penis to your temple and discharge it. People have died that way.

In complete seriousness, if you don’t feel qualified to play G-d, then you shouldn’t have kids. If, G-d willing, you do have a child, you and your wife will be responsible for another human life, a mind as well as a body. You shape their personalities, and their view of the world. You answer their questions. You make the rules.

Wanting a mansion and a Bentley is very different from wanting children. For one thing, nowhere in the Bible does it say ‘Go forth and get a luxury car and place with ten bedrooms’.

Do you really think that if, G-d willing, the procedure succeeds, you or she will care? Imagine a child’s voice asking you “Daddy, how do fireflies light up?”. Of the many things going through your mind at that moment, do you really think “I wish you had been conceived through conventional methods.” will be among them?

Should my diabetic friend feel that she’s gone against the Divine Plan by taking insulin? Are my eyeglasses blasphemy?

Why wouldn’t a G-d who we are told time and again loves us as His children, want you to get help at a fertility clinic?

As others have said, what makes you think the fertility clinic is not literally the answer to your prayers? Are you familiar with the story of rising floodwaters, a car, a boat and a helicopter?

8

Never heard that before. What religion is opposed to IVF?

9

I’m Catholic.

10

Well, I’m of the opinion that if God had wanted us to die of the measles, he wouldn’t have given us the brains to figure out how to vaccinate against it.

Likewise with fertility treatments. You and your wife need to figure out your options and go from there. Remember, 50 years ago, these options didn’t exist, and in 50 years from now, there will be options you can’t even dream of yet.

You need to decide what is best for you and your wife. If you are willing to take on the awesome responsibility of raising another human being to be a functioning, contributing member of society, then do what you need to do to get there.

11

Moderator’s Note: Since it seems the thread is more along the lines of people offering advice to digger one and two on his particular situation than a general discussion of the ethics of fertility treatments, I’m moving this to IMHO.

12

Why not just adopt?

13

Stop feeling like a hypocrite. You tried everything you could. That’s something to be proud of.

And **Ivylass ** has a very good point. You and your wife need to decide what you need to do, together. Do you both want to raise a child? Do you want to adopt? (Adoption is a wonderful choice; ask my older brother and sister.) Do you want to choose a donor? Anonymous donor? These are all things for you to discuss.

And you also have to decide when to stop. How many tries is too many? Is IVF a good option for you? How much money do you have to try with?

DeHusband and I went through years of fertility treatments. And we had to answer a lot of questions along the way. One key point: I wanted an anonymous donor. He wanted to choose someone we knew… either his adult nephew (eww) or his best friend (double eww). We finally admitting defeat at IVF.

14

Here’s where the (two-time) adoptive father chimes in to say, “Not necessarily”.

Our agency used a sliding scale. I grant you, it slid way up when we approached, especially the second time, but the overall cost was roughly equivalent to giving birth. And I believe it is now tax-deductible.

Our experience was not quite the same as the OP’s (welcome to the boards, digger one and two), as the doctors kept telling us “You’re both fine - give it another year”. But nothing happened and the clock continued ticking and finally…

We sat down, before we started the whole process, and discussed (as you seem to have done) what exactly we were willing to go thru to have children. And, fortunately, we were in agreement that we would rather have children by adoption than go thru a lot of surgery and drugs and so forth.

The hassle and expense and general unpleasantness was not worth it. So we wound up adopting. Considering the two we finally got, it worked out far better than we either deserved or expected (let’s consider the six paragraphs where I rave about my children as written - although they genuinely are beyond wonderful)). So neither infertility or religious objections never entered the picture. I even went and had a vasectomy after our daughter arrived and was Official, to forestall any surprises.

Other people have other experiences.

Regards,
Shodan

15

digger one and two I am really sorry about this.

There are lots and lots of options, as everyone else has already said.
If you’re certain you want a biological child then obviously assisted reproduction is the way to go.

This is a spectrum of everything from superovulation with or without intra-uterine insemination, all the way up to ICSI (Intracytoplasmic Spermatocyte Injection) where a single sperm is injected directly into an ovum.

You need to consider cost, possible outcomes (multiple pregnancy, miscarriage etc) and how you would handle them.

As Mr Moto obliquely referenced, you also need to decide what would happen to any “surplus” embryos you might create. The present situation is that they can be frozen for your future use, donated to another couple or destroyed.

The big thing to know is that if you do decide to go for assisted conception techniques you have 2 choices.

You either start at the bottom of the ladder with the least invasive technique and work up if it fails, or you start at the top with the most invasive technique and hope it works out.

Do some research, work out what you both want and don’t want and then start talking to the experts about what is feasible for your situation.

I wish you both a happy and complete family, however it is achieved.

16

Changing your mind because you’ve received new information isn’t bad. In fact it’s good, because it indicates you’ve learned a little more about yourself. Imagine if you’d decided to cross the street and continued with your plans even though you saw a big truck coming your way. Changing your mind and staying on the curb would be the wisest thing to do.

If you do decide to try other treatments, I second carefully considering the amount of time and money you’re willing to invest before it’s too much. Though you don’t want others to make your decisions, there’s also how you will feel about how others in your life will handle the situation. Back in high school, one of my favorite teachers used IVF to have her two children. People at their church were cruel, judgemental know-nothings who made her so uncomfortable, they switched churches. The good new is, they like their new church better, and not just because how their family came into being was accepted.

17

Catalyst said it best!

18

I have only a cursory understanding of Catholic teachings on reproductive issues, but I always had the impression that anything that prevented conception was considered immoral. What would be the moral objection to a procedure (IVF) that would result in conception? Or am I missing something?
(quite probable…)

19

IVF results in surplus fetuses, which are usually destroyed or expire, which is a problem for many people (including Catholics) who believe life starts at conception.

20

No, Catholicism is also against any fertility treatments-no matter if you’re trying to encourage or avoid conception.