No, Claudia assures me that VunderHund is quite correct, and Dolly the Vicious Attack Hound concurs. Since they have a lot more teeth than you and access to the bedroom when I’m asleep, I’m siding with the dogs about how to spell her name. Besides, technically it would be “der wunderhund.”
Gaspode, spending a lot of money on a dog doesn’t guarantee that the poor thing will wind up being taken care of. There are rescue groups for most of the very expensive breeds, too, where the dogs have been (often forcibly) removed from abusive or neglectful homes. People are just stupid, and I think you are seriously underestimating just how stupid a lot of them can be.
When I got my dogs, it was either get a dog from a reputable breeder or no dog. So it’s not like any dogs would have been given a pass from the shelter had I decided against a purebred.
The two dogs I have now are the first dogs I’ve had on my own. We had many dogs when I growing up, but these would be the first dogs that I had sole care of. I thought long and hard before getting my first dog. Then long and hard before getting the second dog. I tried to make sure that I made as good a match as possible with the dogs I took on.
I knew the breed I was interested in since I’d grown up with that breed. So I knew the breed’s temperment and lifestyle would suit my own. Plus, I wanted a good chance of getting a healthy dog. Sure, there’s no guarantee that a particular purebred’s temperment will match that of the breed in general, or that it will have the health of its parents. There’s no such guarantee. However, I did want to stack the odds in my favor. So it was important to me to meet the parents and siblings of my potential dogs.
The dogs I have are shelties. Both of them were bred for the agility ring rather than the conformation ring. The high energy I can handle. What I wanted was an easily trained dog who was highly attuned to his/her owner and very eager to please and be obedient. I got that.
Now that I’ve got two wonderfully well-adjusted, healthy and happy dogs, I’m a bit more confident in my dog training and raising abilities. So, now that I’m older and wiser in the ways of dogs, my next dog may very well be an adoption from a shelter.
But when I was still new to having dogs on my own, I wasn’t as prepared to take a gamble on a shelter dog.
I love any animal, and yes, the purebreds have as much right to a happy home as any other animal. But if the demand for purebreds was lower, and there were fewer idiots who will ONLY get a purebred dog or cat for ‘status’, perhaps we’d have less in the way of puppy mills and badly bred, sickly animals.
Add me into those who have wonderful shelter kitties - getting them was fate, I firmly believe, and they are the most amazing kitties in the world (Oscar is the closest to human I’ve ever seen in a cat’s face, and Emmy is sweeter than any cat I’ve ever seen). I’d sell everything I own to keep them well.
And I’m trying to convince mr. avabeth to get another shelter baby - he’s not so into the idea (he thinks our two bedroom apartment is too small for three cats - it’s not - and that it’s too hard to socialize a kitten to two older, settled cats - it’s not, I’ve done it plenty in my lifetime), but I’ll keep trying. What I’d really like to do is foster cats for women who need to go into a battered women’s shelter and can’t take their pets. He’s not so keen on that idea either, but he seems to be more open to that than getting a new kitten or cat.
Continuing the hijack;) - my brother has two husky mixes. His older girl is a husky/malamute/red wolf mix and she is incredibly stubborn, but sweet as hell. She had a litter of puppies that were half her/half “Who the hell left the damn door open when the dog’s in heat!?!?!?” (believe me, my brother was about to get her spayed, but one of his stupid-ass roommates let her out when she was in heat once, which is all it took) - and actually, she had eight of the world’s sweetest puppies. We determined that they were half her and half yellow lab. The puppy that my brother kept has the husky face but the yellow lab body and he is the SWEETEST, best dog in the world. He listens, he obeys, he may not be incredibly smart, but he’s an awesome boy. I love him so much - and half the time, when I visit home, my first move is to visit my brother and sister-in-law to see the dogs - screw the family;).
My father likes purebreds, and he likes to choose particular breeds, and think about them over a length of time, as opposed to going and picking a dog out of a shelter. Fine. He makes enough money to make that kind of decision.
We have two shiloh shepards, classified as a rare breed. The first one cost $1500, and he’s only a companion quality dog. However, he is the neatest dog, he’s so much fun. He makes me laugh every day.
Our second dog is from the same breeder. She was a show dog, and won several best in shows with her old owner. She was going to be a breeding dog, but the breeder x-rayed her hips before they started breeding, and found she has slight hip dysplacia. They don’t want to pass this on, so the breeder gave her to us. She’s my darling.
Yes, they were expensive. But they were worth it. I like knowing where my dogs came from, what home they were raised in, the behavior of their parents. And, I admire the breeder, because she obviously wants to improve the breed. It would be cool to adopt a dog from the pound and give it a good home. But I love my dogs, and I think that’s more important than where they came from.
Hear hear. To say otherwise makes about as much sense as mom’s in the 50s who told their children to clean their plates because there were starving children in Africa.
Both of my pets receive regular vet checks, all of their shots, and now (though this wasn’t necessary in Alaska), flea, tick and heartworm dosing. They were also both sterilized at a young age.
As I said earlier, shelters don’t always HAVE the dog that a person wants and needs to fit their lifestyle.
And it would be unfair to both dog and human to adopt a dog that wasn’t really what you wanted, out of guilt, or duty. Again, as I described earlier in the thread, the pound where I used to live, rarely had any other dogs than lab/husky mixes.
Which, from knowing of them through people who owned them, I found to be not only too big, but unattractive, smelly, one track mind dogs, that were stubborn and very hard to train. Many were just plain dumb.
I have no doubt, that as haj says above, some irresponsible doofus got them when they were puppies (and yes that sort of mix IS adorable as a puppy, like a little fluffball), but too many people don’t think past that stage.
Why should those of us who ARE responsible pet owners have to pay the price for the idiots by lowering our standards and picking a dog because 'it’s the right thing to do (regardless of whether it’s the right dog for us)", when some of us HAVE researched the breed we own, or want to own??
Not only researched it, but as in my case, and some of the other posters here, know the breed well, have owned it, and know it fits into our life as a pet owner? As someone else was saying, not all breeds have readily availabe rescue animals. I know that before I left, that aussies sure didn’t. And in the 34 years that I lived in Alaska, I never saw an aussie, a Border Collie, or even an Aussie Cattle dog at the pound. Ever.
Nor had I ever seen any small mixed breeds (other than the one rare time I found a poodle muttley when I was a young teen.
Before I bought both of my dogs, I’d looked for months. And not for a purebred either, I was hoping to find a little muttley similar to my childhood dog, or the one I’d had during my twenties and early 30s. No such luck.
My mom had bought a “pet quality” aussie a few years before they bought me my little mini. When they suggested her, I was all for it, and tired of looking for a dog. shoesdog#1 is beyond the shadow of a doubt, the smartest dog I’ve ever seen. None of this “purebreds are crazy, or inbred and have all sorts of problems” crap with her.
Nor has there been with the newbieshoesdog. When they go, I will DEFINITELY go for aussies again. Likely a mini pair. But that’s many years in the future God willing.
When that time comes, I will, as I have always done, look FIRST at the shelter.
But I’m not going to take a dog just because as one person said
Really? The consequences of me not choosing a dog that I KNOW wouldn’t be right for me are what? That they’ll not find a home? Perhaps have to be euthanized? And that consequence was caused by whom again?
Oh NOOO, not the idiots who didn’t have their pets spayed/neutured. And oh nooooo not the moron who got the OOOOH so cute puppy, and then abandoned and neglected it when it wasn’t so little and cute.
No, not them, it’s people like me who are at fault, people who come and look and see nothing but huge mixed breeds that they couldn’t possibly control or handle in their life. Or people who come and look for months on end without finding the dog that they know will suit them best (and vice versa), and finally give up and buy a purebred after researching them and end up loving that breed, and being faithful to that standard of pet.
Much better still, get your rescue animal at a no-kill shelter, which are evil masquerading as goodness. You will then do something far more meaningful than preventing a simple, fast and painless death that the animal would be completely unaware of, you will be preventing a long and agonizing life spent alone and miserable, bored and probably psychotic somewhere down the line, all of which the dog would experience directly and acutely. A much, much, much crueler fate than death.
We paid over $600 for our pure bred Pug. I once paid $1400 for an English Bulldog. We also own an SUV, a sports car, and enough guns to give Sarah Brady a stroke.
This is America, God Damn it! We’ll spend our money any way we see fit!
My brother lives on the family farm now. He was dealing with tons of people stealing gas from the farm tanks. Our area’s also been having tons of break-ins and thefts from equipment shops lately. Everyone’s got power tools, easy to get in no matter how you lock it. So, he decided to go doggy-shopping (term used loosely). He researched breeds for around 1.5 years. Ended up deciding to get a Maremma sheephound. Beautiful dog. Very guardy-type. After speaking with several breeders, he found out that they will adopt and guard an area just as easily as a flock of animals. So, he dropped a bomb and got himself a puppy. Beautiful dog. Big Friendly And, surprise to him, 6 months later the same breeder called…the breeder had been called when a purebred bitch was found wandering in Winnipeg, MB. So, now my brother’s got two purebred, rare dogs. Expensive. Worth it. They’re friendly as all heck, but if you didn’t know that, you’d run. The male’s head is the size of a cinder block (with the same IQ ).
The bitch is friendly and VERY well trained (most of the time).
Happy, healthy dogs, that fulfill a role, and as such, feel good. Dogs need to have a role, helps them feel good.
And I love playing with them Need to get myself a pug when I get a big enough place.
There certainly are two sides to the no-kill coin, and each camp has legitimate points to make. To call no-kill shelters “evil masquerading as goodness” is just stupid.
This thread would be incomplete without a mention of the dips who get a dog based on its looking appealing in a movie (i.e. 1001 Dalmations) without researching the breed, and even ignoring evidence that the dog is ill-suited for their situation - and then bringing the dog in to a shelter months later because they can’t handle it.
And oh yeah, we donate to our local shelter on a regular basis. Whether or not we’ll adopt a dog from them in the future is an issue that is not morality-based.
Pet peeve of the dog person: PUREBRED can and should only refer to dogs who were born from REGISTERED PARENTS, who were registered with a registry body such as American Kennel Club, the Canadian Kennel Club, the United Kennel Club, etc. who carry Stud Books and keep track of lineage in a FORMAL way.
Though a dog can be of “two golden retriever parents”, that does not make him a “purebred dog”. Sure, he’s of one “visible” breed trait, but a purebred this does not make him. Backyard breeders who mate two Golden Retrievers do not produce Purebred Puppies.
THIS BEING SAID: There are lots of paper-carrying, registered purebred dogs that end up in shelters too. Also, with the weak control that AKC and CKC actually do on who registers what, there have been PUPPY MILLS who have produced dogs with “papers”! And they’re perfectly “legit!”.
PAPERS and REGISTRATION do not give any guarantees. Only working closely with a good breeder does. A breeder who knows his or her lines very well. A breeder who is active in the breed: conformation, obedience, tracking, herding, agility, flyball… you name it, who participates with the breed club, who knows the standard inside, out and backwards, who has a plan for his/her breeding lines… and who doesn’t breed to sell puppies but rather who breeds for himself or herself…
<end rant>
When I was looking for an Aussie to continue on with the work I’ve been doing, I knew I wanted:
a) an aussie from a working line, strong and agile but of moderate bone (show aussies tend to have more coat, be of heavier bone, and slightly shorter in the hocks), well balanced and capable of working close-to-ground.
b) an aussie with show lines in its ancestry to guarantee solid rear and front assemblies which, for WORK, would make a huge difference in the animal’s ability to pull (draft), and to work efficiently without tiring.
c) an aussie which would have brains (titled parents, titled grandparents, or proven ability through testing)
d) an aussie with healthy hips, heart, thyroid, and especially eyes (common issue in herding breeds) - I was able to check OFA certification of hips for 5 generations back on both sides, CERF for eyes (at Perdue) for the same number of generations…
And, well, what did I get from the litter I chose to get a puppy from? A strong willed working aussie with solid front and rear assembly, wonderfully sound conformation, intense brainpower, OFA excellent hips (pending), sound heart, thyroid, elbows and CERF clear eyes… and, because of her registered status, I could compete with her in obedience, tracking, agility and other such sport competitions which are held by the kennel clubs and open only to registered dogs.
For me, who works with working animals, all of this made a HUGE difference. Otherwise, I could have spent two years trying to train an animal who wasn’t fit for the job - either because of its health or because of its lack of brainpower, or even because of its conformation…
There is a REASON for breed standards to exist - usually form and function walk hand in hand…
So - yeah, I have purebred, registered, conformationally sound dogs (spare one who is our pound puppy.) They were picked for a reason. They were picked because I knew what to expect from them, and that facilitated my job.
If I look at our pound dawg, had we had him as a puppy to work… yikes! We know he’s a sheltie/border collie cross. He could have been a really bright, border-collie-like agile, high-energy dog with fearless personality traits and a solid work ethic. Turns out he has the body of a sheltie, the head of a border collie and the energy level of a bathmat. He has the personality of a totally different “breed”. Had I had him as a pup, for work purposes, I would have expected far more energy (from both the sheltie and the BC sides!), a totally different problem-solving-like personality, and would have likely expected him to grow a few more inches. He’s still a wonderful dog! Just not what you would expect from BC/Sheltie cross…
I just wanted to back up what crazy cat lady said about Frenchies.
When we were looking into getting a second dog, we thought about a Frenchie, seeing as they are ‘related’ to Boston Terriers.
She is 100% correct about $1000 being a bargain. In fact, I would say that from what I saw, even $3,000 is a bargain. A lot of sources I looked at were in the $5,000 range. EEK!
Even worse, is that Frenchies in particular are having a hard time with bad breeding. It seems that Russia is a hot bed for breeding them and shipping them to the US. (Russia!). Then the middle man marks them waaaaaay up ( just because they can, you see). So for a while there, their were a bunch of uber expensive Frenchies that were health wrecks.
I don’t want to tell your friend that it’s wrong to buy a purebred or that she MUST buy a rescue dog because I have one of each. I do want to tell your friend to be super careful about a Frenchie. Please have her contact the rescue society about them as a breed if she doesn’t know about them. Let her find out how MUCH the constant vet trips are going to cost for often irrepairable health problems.
I do wish her the best. Frenchies are really beautiful dogs and have wonderful personalities!
I’d worry more about the fact that the guy seems to want to dictate what kind of dog to get his kids based on his own preferences. Are French Bulldogs good dogs for kids? (I don’t know the breed at all, so I’m just conjecturing.) Or are they going to be stuck with a dog that is unsocial or mean or otherwise unpleasant just because their father wanted an expensive, high-status dog?
Anecdotal evidence here,
my wife is a small animal veterinarian, and she sees so many problem dogs from “reputable” breeders and has witnessed so many questionable practives being performed by “reputable” breeders that she believes good breeders to be truly far and few between. I’m sure everyone on this thread bought from the very small subset of actual quality breeders :rolleyes: but buyer beware. Very much so.
FWIW we’ve got two dogs, one from a shelter as a pup (1/2 border collie 1/2 springer spaniel), the other I got from a rescue at 9 mths old (full border). Both ver healthy and brimming with energy, as is their way.
As far as I know, they are really sweet natured dogs. As for them being good with kids, I would say yes… except it depends on the kids, you know?
I actually did buy my dog from a 'small subset of quality breeders", believe it or not. He is an extremely healthy dog. Our girl, whom we got at a rescue, is the one with the problems (albeit minor ones). The only problem with shelter dogs is that you have no way of knowing anything about them. One dog we rescued from a shelter had non-stop health problems and was extremely destructive. It seems like you don’t win either way you go.
If I’d told anyone how to spend their money, y’all would have a point yelling at me about how it’s your damn money. Fortunately, I’ve done nothing of the sort.
Spend your $1,000 on crack and porn for all I care. It’s your damn money. All I’ve said is that you shouldn’t spend the money on a purebred dog, when there are dogs at the shelter, including purebreds, needing homes. In other words, don’t support the industry that is so much a part of the problem – according to some estimates, as much as 25% of the direct problem (and more of the indirect problem, inasmuch as purebred dogs can have mixed-breed pups).
What makes this different from suggesting you shouldn’t buy a car is that cars don’t get euthanized when they’re not purchased from a specific dealership. What makes it different from a hobby is that rare stamps don’t feel pain and suffering.
We’re dealing with taking custodianship of a life here, not just making a recreational decision. It’s in a category by itself. Treating it like you’d treat choosing a couch for your living room is wholly inappropriate.
But not the Continental Kennel Club, which will register anything for a price. I know you know the difference, but I used to get them confused before I knew better.
Find me a show quality Shiba in a shelter and then we’ll talk. 3/4 of the ones that are listed as such on Petfinder don’t even look like Shibas, the other 1/4 are petshop quality. Not to mention the fact that you can’t show a spayed or neutered animal.
The breeder I got my dog from keeps track of all her animals and takes them back if there are any issues. She has spay and neuter contracts for any pet quality pups that leave her house. She is not part of the problem, therefore I am not supporting the industry.
And who here has done this? My dog is a member of my family and losing him would devastate me. My leather couch, while indeed a nice piece of furniture, is not held in such high regard.
Now my big screen TV…
(For those lacking a sense of humor, the above is a joke.)
Ok, getting a dog from a shelter does give it a home. But it doesn’t improve their breeding. Buying a dog from a good breeder, who cares about the breed and wants to improve it, supports that breed, and results in a higher quality dog over a period of time. If that is what you are looking for, than you should buy the dog from the breeder.
I was talking to my mom about this, her being a devout dog lover, and she asked, when I get a dog from a shelter, I take on what someone else dumped. Why should I have to pay for their mistakes? There are some wonderful dogs in shelters, but some that have some quirk, some problem, that is just unsuitable to some people. Is it not worse to take a dog, and then throw it back in the shelter? As my mom says, there is too often a reason they are at the shelter. And if there is no reason, shouldn’t we direct our rant at those who get rid of their loving dog?
Case in point, my best friend adopted a dog from a shelter. A great dog, lots of fun. But she opens doors. Any door, locked doors even. We don’t know how. She’s great, but had I adopted her, I would have to bring her back. My lifestyle does not allow that type of dog. Luckily, it works for my friend.
Besides, technically it would be “der wunderhund.”
Friendly 
And, surprise to him, 6 months later the same breeder called…the breeder had been called when a purebred bitch was found wandering in Winnipeg, MB. So, now my brother’s got two purebred, rare dogs. Expensive. Worth it. They’re friendly as all heck, but if you didn’t know that, you’d run. The male’s head is the size of a cinder block (with the same IQ