There’s a problem with that, though: you can’t use evidence that “there may be a correlation between trait x and certain members of a population” to support your assertion that “there is an undeniable causative link between trait x and 100% of that population.” For example, a guick google reveals a British news story regarding a 48 person study that revealed that “having a lot of tattoos like David Beckham may be a sign of low self esteem.” The humor here is that the example they used, David Beckham, is a multimillionaire and the best living athlete in his sport, who I am willing to bet does not suffer from self-esteem or body issues. If it simply makes you feel better to hold the opinion that all tattoos are incontrovertable evidence of psychological problems of everybody who has them then knock yourself out, but it’s just plain bad logic. It’s like assuming that because tattoos are more prevalent among those serving in the navy that the barista at the coffee shop with the tiny rose tattoo on her wrist must be a sailor, or if you prefer, calling the coast guard everytime you see someone with an eyepatch.
I am not at all bothered by people who don’t like people with tattoos. If people who are judgmental and ignorant enough to judge me by my body art see a tattoo and decide they don’t like me, that means I have less judgmental, ignorant people to deal with. We all win.
Clothahump is crazy. I hate tattoos too, but only because I think they look ugly/dumb.
So many people under 40 have a smallish tattoo or three that most people they know will never see, that it’s beyond ridiculous to assume anything about ‘tattooed people’. Clothahump largely doesn’t even know which people of his acquaintance do or do not have a tattoo - which makes me smile.
People who are covered in highly visible tattoos are a different story. You have to be pretty invested in being ‘alternative’ and the subculture that revolves around extreme body mods to get that tatted up. Still, I’ve met some perfectly ordinary, nice people with regular jobs and families who pretty much look like circus freaks. As well as some wackier types whose tattoos/mods do indeed seem to be a manifestation of their craving for attention and their self-destructive impulses; this includes one of my sisters and her boyfriend (who is a brilliant and very nice guy, but chooses to walk around looking like a mad clown and makes his living partially by performing dangerous tricks at ‘alternative’ venues).
You’re so damn CUTE when you’re angry.
Given how badly you “used” those cites to fail to prove your point, how do you suffer yourself?
As far as I can tell from a quick scan of that article, the researchers found a whopping 10 women with tattoos and drew the rest of their conclusions based on them - and compared those 10 women to about 350 non-tattooed women. I’m no statistics expert, but that doesn’t sound like the most conclusive study in the world. Also, they noted that 2 of those 10 women had self-applied tattoos, and another 2 got their tattoos before age 16. Not exactly representative of most tattooed people I know, or of the people posting in the threads you’ve shit in.
Somehow the existence of 10 somewhat disturbed tattooed women in New Zealand does not convince me of your assertion that “People who get tattoos and piercings […] are people with psychological problems who have negative self-image”. That’s a wildly sweeping generalization and it’s not particularly supported by your cites. Zeriel is right - there might be a vague association that says people with psychological issues may be likely to get tattoos, but it does not follow that people with tattoos must necessarily have psychological problems.
You don’t know anyone who got a tattoo at least partially because it is an act that frequently has rebellious connotations?
Oh, but nobody think I agree with Clothahump’s craziness. There are tattoos I like and there are tattoos I don’t like.
Not really, because, oddly enough, not all people who don’t like other people avoid having anything to do with them, the subject of this thread being a prime example.
In most of the circles I run in, I’m the outlier because I do not and will likely never have a tattoo.
In point of fact, probably 90% of the tattoos on people I know are in places that are covered up in day-to-day clothing, specifically to avoid negative reactions.
I don’t understand why we care if Clothahump hates tattooed people and are trying to defend it. I would like him to stop hijacking tattoo threads that are not “Should I get a tattoo?” But beyond that I really do not care what he thinks of me. I have some pretty unflattering opinions of him, too. Why should he care?
Because threatshitting is a time-honored pasttime here at the Dope. See any cat thread for other examples.
Meh, I don’t really care what he specifically thinks of me or other tattooed people. I don’t think he’s particularly smart or well informed otherwise, so it doesn’t really offend me that he apparently has a low opinion of me.
But the threadshitting is annoying and uncalled for and his assertion that tattooed people generally have serious psychological issues is just plain wrong. The whole point of this place is supposedly to fight ignorance, and usually someone who has unfounded crazy-ass opinions doesn’t get to just state them without some backlash.
I wonder if he’s going to come back to the thread and ostentatiously ignore the several other posters who pointed out the same thing about his “studies” that I did.
From the latter of Clothahump’s citations (“Are tattooing and body piercing indicators …”), I quote:
From my (admittedly very short) review of the literature, it seems that (1) yes, there is some association between having at tattoo and negative psychosocial outcomes, particularly risk-seeking behavior; (2) there isn’t any good reason to ascribe a causal interpretation to the direction tattoo -> outcomes; (3) even if there were, the associations are sufficiently weak that by no means everyone suffers from them; and (4) — this is the important one — there is no clear evidence, and some actual counter-evidence, that body modification is positively associated with low self esteem.
As has been pointed out, there is no threadshitting going on. Expressing an opinion three times in eleven years is hardly threadshitting. Rachellogram, the moron that pitted me in the first place, apparently has no friggin’ clue whatsoever as to what threadshitting really is.
I’m pretty sure it’s you that doesn’t understand what threadshitting is. Do you really think it has to do with how many times you’ve expressed your opinion about a topic over a given amount of time?
When someone asks for help desinging a tattoo that they’ve already decided they’re going to get and you jump in and say:
That, is the very definition of threadshitting.
From the FAQ
Really? So why, exactly, do you think you got smacked by a mod for your most recent anti-tattoo screed?
Disclaimer: I have 2 tattoos, and am thinking about a third.
Just my two cents:
I read the original thread, and to be honest, I was mildly amused by Clothahump’s comment. It was definitely thread-shitting, and out-of-place, but I found it just a little bit funny that he thinks all tats look like suppurating sores. And you know what? I agree with him…to an extent. Some tats do look like shit. Check out any of those Bad Tattoo websites, and you’ll be horrified. Crappy art work, misspelled words, stupid ideas… it’s all there. And yes, if you get an ice cream cone inked across one cheek, a swastika on the other, and a snippet of lyrics from “Achy-Breaky Heart” down your arm, I’ll silently judge you a little.
Do a Google image search on tats, some subject you like, and you’ll find tons that are amazing and well-done.
Then I started reading this one, because, c’mon, who doesn’t love a good pile-on? Hey, the guy doesn’t like tattoos, to the extent that he turned down hot monkey sex because of a little tiny tattoo on his partner. No skin off my nose; everyone has some belief that they hold very dear. This guy’s is tattoos. Whatever. Live and let live, I guess.
But now, I have to say I’m pretty damn offended by the idea that just because I have ink, I have massive psychological problems and no self-esteem. Who the hell are you to judge me about my tats? They both have deep meaning for me, and signify something special to me. Neither of them was obtained lightly. There was much thought put into each one. I went into it knowing full well what I wanted.
It was not some drunken weekend in Thailand, and waking up with a giant Tweety Bird across my back.
And you’d never know I had them if we met in a professional capacity. If it was a casual summer cookout? You might see one of them, depending on what I’m wearing. And again, who the hell are you to make some armchair diagnosis about me, based on one little thing?
I’d bet $100 that Clothahump has met more people with tats than he realizes. I wonder what his opinion of them would be if he found out they had a tat?
Most people aren’t hesitant about showing them to you if you ask, but they don’t go around ripping their clothes off and screaming, “LOOK AT MY TATTOO!”
You’re a close-minded jerk.
Ironic that. Threadshitting isn’t about quantity, it’s about a specific action. If you forcibly rape your dog three times in eleven years, it doesn’t mean you aren’t forcibly raping your dog.
Didn’t you used to be a cop? Don’t you guys have to be at least functional? Did you suffer a head injury that turned you into the always-wrong caricature of conservatism you currently are?
This is the best thread ever.
No, the best thread ever is the one where that hysterical-anti-nuke-dude is screaming at the clouds about the nuclear contamination at Fukushima.