I think the trouble is that quite a lot of guys tend think nice is synonymous with shy. Shyness is, and I believe I speak for the majority here, an extraordinarly powerful turn off. It’s perfectly possible to be nice while being confident, flirtatious, and a fast mover in the bedroom but there is a significant percentage of guys think that since by holding the door open and laughing politely at all their female friends jokes, they’re being nice women should be attracted to them because after all “most women want nice guys, right?”. Yeah, they’re being nice alright but if they don’t attempt to make a proactive effort to get the girl like the “jerks” do then they’ll be lucky to be if the objects of their affection ever consider them as anything more than a convenient shoulder to cry on when the guy who actually had the balls to act fucks up.[/hijack]
There are different levels of shy, though. “Bashful” shy can be cute. “I don’t dare voice any opinions or make any decisions or have any actual noticeable character traits” shy is a turn off.
Or they complain about women not being interested in them simply because they’re nice - yeah, I love hearing that I only want an asshole who’ll abuse me and jerk me around.
FTR, my husband was a “nice guy” who laid off when he found out I was in a long distance relationship - but he never fell into “just a nice friend-guy” mode. I knew he was interested but polite about it. When I dumped my LTR boyfriend, I went after him in a big way.
I have to recommend http://www.breakupgirl.net/ for relationship issues - she doesn’t fall into the whole “don’t be too nice” etc. trap, but shows you how being a “potential date” involves doing different things than being a “friend guy”. She calls the latter, in one of her comic strips, a “Loft Builder Guy” - the man bakes cookies, builds a loft, etc., for the gal he wants to date, but gets nowhere. He finally asks the woman out and she accepts, and tells him she was worried he wasn’t interested.
This is why the “bad” guys get dates - besides the fact that they tend to ask a lot of women out, they also aren’t shy about the fact that they’re interested in a date.
Incubus, I have to agree with what some of the other women said - she probably just didn’t feel any “spark” with you and was attempting to be nice. She was trying to make it look like it was her fault/problem and not you at all. If she was trying to be a bitch, she would have said something like “You disgust me, get your hands off.” right?
By Incubus: “Date girl, who is nice, but politely informs you that she doesn’t like to be touched/caressed and doesn’t want a physical relationship. You are fine with that, because you like the girl for who she is and respect her boundaries.”
[Voice of experience]You can continue to like her for who she is and respect her boundaries. Just be sure you don’t waste another evening and more money on another date with her. If a girl is interested in you at all, you’ll never hear the “don’t want to be touched” line.[/Voice of experience]
Opal, I know exactly what you mean. I have to admit, when I was single I was kind of a sucker for the “I’m so nice, no girls like me” thing. The first few times I heard that, I was all over the guy, wanting to “disprove” his assertation.
But at some point it started to feel like every guy I knew was whining about this all the time. And they weren’t actually putting forth any effort whatsoever to get a girl to like them. It was all, “I helped her with her Trig homework and she didn’t sleep with me! Why don’t girls like nice guys??” :rolleyes:
My apologies to the OP for the slight hijack, but I have no idea what to say about the girl in your post. Seems like a dumb thing for her to do, to me.
To clarify, this situation happened to me in one of my first relationships. Back then I was optimistic and delusional, and thought that I could have a relationship that didn’t have to be physical. And in retrospect I still don’t have a problem with relationships like that.
Whats hurtful is when I find out I’m the only one she doesn’t want to be physical with. That I played by the rules and still lost. She later dated other guys (who were remotely associated with me in friend-of-a-friend type connections) which is how I found out she was fooling around with other guys. Turns out they were told the same thing I was but ignored it. They were pushy and coerced her into doing things, and she did them, and she loved them anyway. :mad:
If what people say is true (that she just didn’t find me attractive) I DO find that hurtful. Would you find it hurtful that your spouse wants to have sex in the dark because they’re repulsed by the sight of your body? (One of the reasons my parents divorced, BTW).
This same girl also dated my best friend. She gave him the same speech and like me he was fine with it. Later we found out that she was having sex with an ex-boyfriend while she was dating my best friend.
I’m no longer that optimistic delusional person I was then. I don’t date anymore either. Every girl I’ve dated has had an agenda; either she’s dating me to make an ex-boyfriend jealous and win him back, or she’s having some bet with her friends, or she’s trying to pretend to everyone that she’s straight (all 3 happened to me).
I’m still bitter. I guess I should give it up but the anger hasn’t subsided. I do have a lot more confidence and initiative with meeting/asking out girls- anything I’m thinking that I’m ‘too embarassed/shy’ to ask a girl I’ll just spit it out and say it. Much more effective. Its just my dating pool could use a little chlorine…
Not everyone will find you attractive, you realize. IThere’s also a big, big difference between Random Girl #27 not finding you attractive, and your spouse being unable to bear seeing you naked any longer. I’m surprised you could even compare the two.
As for this girl, who allowed herself to be pushed into doing things she didn’t want to by guys who didn’t respect her stated wishes, and stuck with them anyway, cheated on them, and so on - is that the sort of woman you want? Sounds to me like you dodged a bullet.
Incubus: Do you wish you’d ignored her rules if she would have acepted your advances? If so, you can, well, ignore the rules. Yes, if you get that wrong you’ll be labelled a jerk, but as you said, you thought that they get the women.
I don’t recommend this - but if you realise that you’re chosing to be a nice guy, it can feel better. Then work on being a fun, interesting ncie guy. (Or finding chicks who dig that if you are)
OK, granted a “quality” woman doesn’t want to be involved with a spineless jellyfish, milquetoast, socially inept “nice guy”. However, that doesn’t address the other end of the equation which is what I really find to be the troubling part. Why do abusive, irresponsible, sometimes criminally minded “jerks” have no trouble attracting women? The mear fact that even one woman, not to mention hundreds, would be attracted to a serial killer of women totally astounds me. Please explain.
I’ve personally seen numerous cases of women hooking up “jerks” that had no long-term merit. Of course, the inevitable pain follows that is devastating to them and their children. Then the pattern follows that after they’ve ridden themselves of the “jerk” they complain that all the “nice guys” are taken.
Man, women, in general, are manipulative bitches…go with men! They’re a hell of a lot less hassle. Suuuuure, women look better, what with their curvy figures and all, but you get a lot less of the bullshit from men.
