You gotta be shitting me! [Christmas music]

[Sarahfeena]

@Ensign Edison

This is simply unfathomable to me. You are saying that if I’m in a minority, I shouldn’t even decide not to shop somewhere based on that place’s religious atmosphere. I don’t understand this at fucking all. (Please for the love of God don’t come back and say you’re not saying I shouldn’t, just that it’s stupid and pointless). You also can’t imagine being bothered by any level of broadcast of prayer as long as you don’t have something to throw away or someone to interact with. I doubt most people would feel the same way.

I didn’t say I wouldn’t be bothered if the government was broadcasting prayers from a loudspeaker on the street, but what private individuals do just doesn’t faze me that much . I live in a neighborhood that is very diverse ethnically and religiously, but not politically, and the overriding political opinion is very much not in line with my own (my congressman, who I did not vote for, won with I think something like 92% of the vote). The local bookstores prominently display books from the “other side” of the political aisle, whereas I have to search for the ones from my side, or special order them. Sure, it can be annoying at times, but you know what? Those bookstores are catering to their customer base, and I can’t blame them. I use politics as an example instead of religion, because it is the only area in life where I think I could actually be considered a minority.

It’s not that the music will make people more religious, but that it’s part of making public places unacceptably geared toward one religion. Why should the majority religion have any special right to control those spaces? Greater numbers don’t equate to special virtue.

They don’t…the individual owners of the stores control those spaces, which is their right. The fact that they belong to the predominant culture can’t be helped.

I also live in a non-Christian enclave; pointing out that there are still pockets where Christianity doesn’t reign is demonstrating ignorance of just how much of this vast country is Christian. Are you denying that Christianity is so dominant in this country that it effects every aspect of domestic and foreign policy? It’s not one big happy fruitbasket of cultures. It’s a fat watermelon squishing a lot of little grapes, and to suggest that the grapes are just not doing their part to get along is fatuous.

No, I am not denying that at all. I completely get it. I don’t think that it is the obligation of the minority to just get along and keep their mouths shut. If I gave that impression, I’m sorry.

[Ensign_Edison]

@Walter Windchill

By “let management know,” she meant “demanded that the store cater to her personal whims.” And she was surprised that the manager didn’t immediately cave.

Where the fuck do you get that, aside from your feverish imagination? You ask Tom for a cite that people got contentious about this, and then you pull this shit? Cute.

Sarahfeena, I don’t see where we have a disagreement anymore. If economic factors are important to you, then obviously you agree that a person voting with their dollars and making sure the management knows why is perfectly reasonable regardless of what their complaint is, short of “not enough murder booths” or “too many clothes on the clerks”.

[Walter_Windchill]

I’ll be damned if I can find it now, so I must have MsRobyn confused with another poster (who shares her sentiments), or I just can’t find it… I was recalling a post that related an anecdote about a poster and friend entering a store playing Christmas music, telling the manager they would take their business elsewhere (harumph!) and their disgust that he shrugged them off. Of course, MsRobyn expressed similar sentiments to that, but I can’t find the anecdote.

[Sarahfeena]

@Ensign Edison

Sarahfeena, I don’t see where we have a disagreement anymore. If economic factors are important to you, then obviously you agree that a person voting with their dollars and making sure the management knows why is perfectly reasonable regardless of what their complaint is, short of “not enough murder booths” or “too many clothes on the clerks”.

Yup. I’m not sure we ever did have a disagreement, actually.

[Walter_Windchill]

@MsRobyn

In fact, I and several Jewish friends have a semi-boycott going of stores that do play religious music during the holiday season; many of them are smaller businesses and we let them know that their music preferences are costing them business.

Aha! There it is! Though not exactly as I remember it, but it’s all there.

[Bricker]

@MsRobyn

Look. If you want to hear that music, knock yourself out. I choose not to, and that is my privilege. To tell me that “millions” have heard it without feeling coerced or insulted is meaningless. I am not one of those millions. I am one person who does feel unwelcome and unwanted, if not outright insulted. So I take my money and walk, as I am entitled to do.

Of course you are thus entitled.

And heaven forfend (not the literal heaven, of course, but an expression only, lest you be offended that I was suggesting that heaven was involved in any meaningful way with you) otherwise.

I wonder, though, if your actions will produce an actual, measurable result. Because I suspect that stores, radio stations, malls, and gas stations for that matter will keep playing that music, because relatively few people feel as you do, and these are entities that are guided by the money.

[Catamount]

@Sarahfeena

I don’t want to speak for Walter, but I think his point is that the world would be a better place if we ALL tried to appreciate each other’s cultures and not get upset when the predominant culture doesn’t match our own.

@Ensign Edison

This is simply unfathomable to me.

And there you see the last three pages of the thread summed up in two sentences. You’re welcome.

[Caridwen]

@Bricker

Of course you are thus entitled.

And heaven forfend (not the literal heaven, of course, but an expression only, lest you be offended that I was suggesting that heaven was involved in any meaningful way with you) otherwise.

Why would she be offended by the word heaven? Why do people continue to read more into what she said than she actually did?

I wonder, though, if your actions will produce an actual, measurable result. Because I suspect that stores, radio stations, malls, and gas stations for that matter will keep playing that music, because relatively few people feel as you do, and these are entities that are guided by the money.

Possibly they would. Years ago I worked at a country club that had lots of holiday parties. We’d decorate the banquet rooms with Christmas trees, etc.

A particular group objected to the Christmas tree in the room and wanted it removed. Instead of getting angry, the feeling of the staff was one of embarrassment. Everyone was so caught up in decorating, it never actually occurred to anyone that someone would object, and we really felt bad about it.

After that the trees were put on casters, and we asked the person planning the party if they wanted the tree in the room instead of assuming incorrectly that everyone did.

In this case it correct to speak up. Everyone isn’t oblivious to other people’s feelings.

[Walter_Windchill]

Not so long ago I went to see a good friend and his husband. They are much more religious than I am. He asked, as I came in, if I minded Christmas music. I told them it was fine. Well, there are people who feel their marriage is threatened because these guys love each other and live together; and there are those who feel put upon because they play Christmas music. Neither would be able to show actual evidence that they’ve been harmed, of course, but who am I to deny them their victimhood? Live and let live, I say.

[Ensign_Edison]

I’m getting out of this country as soon as I can.

[Walter_Windchill]

Don’t let the border hit your ass on the way out.

[athelas]

@MsRobyn

If I hear Christmas religious hymns played in a store, I feel unwelcome and unwanted as a customer. If the store feels it can do without my business, then they don’t get my business.

Aww, how sad! You feel unwanted? How sad, how tragic. I’m sure they’ll survive catering to those who are not thin-skinned leftists.

@Cisco

We get Jesus stuffed down our throats almost constantly here

Cite?

[FriarTed]

I can’t believe this is still going on & that I came back to look in on it. That said…
“What then to do about this Jesus-mania?
How do we deal with the Carpenter-King?
Where do we start with a man who is bigger
Than John was when John did
His Baptizing thing?”

[Caridwen]

@athelas

Aww, how sad! You feel unwanted? How sad, how tragic. I’m sure they’ll survive catering to those who are not thin-skinned leftists.

What an incredibly stupid thing to say unless you just enjoy taking shots at people. Did you actually read her posts? This is what she said-

@MsRobyn

I’d like to point out that most of the people in the thread are or were Christians. Christmas (and Easter) are part of your culture, so you come to expect music and all that, and you can’t really understand life without it.

I, OTOH, am not Christian, have never been Christian, and don’t want to be Christian. Christmas never really even registered with me until I moved from a mostly-Jewish place to a mostly-Christian one. I felt (and still feel) like a fish out of water, as it were, and I know I get defensive this time of year about it. But it’s the defensiveness of being different in a way a lot of people don’t really understand. I know that’s the case, and I basically turn into a hermit from Thanksgiving to New Year’s.

I am also not against Christianity. Heck, I’m married to one, and since we’ve been married, I attend his family’s Christmas and Easter celebrations. To be fair, he has also attended Passover and Hanukkah celebrations with me.

But the issue with religious Christmas music (or really, any religious music) in a public place is that it makes me acutely aware that I am not One of Us. I understand that it is my own discomfort, so I choose to avoid it in the first place, or bring my iPod with me and listen to that instead. (FTR, I do have four songs that could, theoretically, count as Christmasy: “A Lonely Jew”, “Do They Know It’s Christmas?” and two pieces from The Nutcracker.)

I also never said that Christmas music shouldn’t be played at all. If you like it, hell, knock yourself out. But please recognize that not everyone is as enamored of it as you are, and that others have the right NOT to listen. For me, this means just not being where it is. I’m okay with that. It’s a shame some of you aren’t.

Robin