You, sir. Yes, you! Are a partisan asshole.

[Jonathan_Chance]

Hello everyone. I find myself frustrated at the moment. What frustration, you say? Frustrated with partisan assholery. Frustrated with people who only listen to their side of the argument. Frustrated with people who believe those who demonize the opposition.

I am a man of the middle, largely. I spent a great deal of time without a political party due to my position as a journalist. Nowadays, following a run for office, I find myself a democrat. A centrist one, to be sure, but still a democrat.

Still, I believe myself to be a reasonable man. In our current bipolar system there are things to be taken as wisdom from people on both sides of the spectrum. I believe this deeply. I also believe that a person truly seeking the best for the country and its citizens should consider arguments from both sides.

I don’t see that happening as much as I would like. And, as stated in the opening paragraph of this post…this frustrates me. To express this frustration I have started this thread wherein I hope to point out posters who are behaving, as I say, as partisan assholes. In short, they post something that sets off my frustration expressed in the first paragraph. I realize this may be a Herculean project but I have to start somewhere.

So, to begin.

Lonesome Polecat, you are a partisan asshole.

LP started this thread, Standard & Poor downgrades US credit: now AA+ not AAA. Certainly a worthy topic of discussion. One that should be on many thinking people’s minds at the moment (including the fact that S&P did so over a weekend to allow for the impact to mature for a day or two).

However, LP was not, apparently, content with a simple discussion of the issue of the effect of the downgrade and so forth. Instead, in his second paragraph of his OP, he delivers this gem:

From Lonesome Polecat Yet the Democrats and the left in general have fiercely resisted any meaningful cuts in federal spending as though there was not one cent (except maybe for military spending) that could be cut from the federal budget without causing national and global economic disaster.

He later goes on to state that both sides in Congress may be responsible for making the recent debt ceiling debate unworthy, for which I congratulate him. Sadly, he returns to his partisanship with his final 'graph.

From Lonesome Polecat I am not trying to be confrontational here. I’m not baiting you. But all too often it seems to me that the left thinks America has unlimited wealth which you may spend as you please without regard to practical consequences.

It’s back to what appears to me to be an ill-informed attack on the left as a whole. This saddens me.

The fact is, I believe Lonesome Polecat when he states that he is not trying to be confrontational in his OP. However, if that is not the case he shows a strong tendency to demonize as a whole the political party, as well as its adherents, fellow travellers, well-wishers and so forth, with a brush as broad as I have seen wielded in serious discourse. And I believe I have seen a great many wielded. I suggest Lonesome Polecat should get out more, read more, and experience a more varied world. It would be my hope that such would prevent later lapses into broad brushing, as it were.

For those of you who think I am just picking on a conservative, fear not, I feel certain members on the left will irritate me in the near future. I feel certain I’ll need to smack a fool down on the left as well. There are, after all, partisan assholes across the political spectrum. I suspect there are some that don’t even fit ON the spectrum.

Have a good day.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

He’s also kind of out of the loop on the facts.

CBO: Reid Plan Cuts Three Times As Much As Boehner Plan

[Lobohan]

Well, why do you think he’s lonesome? It’s not because of his intelligence or winning personality.

[Mosier]

What would you do in the hypothetical situation in which your political opponents actually ARE demons?

If a Republican is unknowingly driving off a cliff, and the Democrat yells at him to stop the fucking car before he kills himself, are you seriously going to berate the Democrat for not listening to both sides of the story?

[The_Hamster_King]

@Jonathan_Chance

In our current bipolar system there are things to be taken as wisdom from people on both sides of the spectrum.

Can you give us an example of wisdom coming from the Republicans right now?

To quote Dawkins: “When two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly half way between. It is possible for one side simply to be wrong.”

[Miller]

“Partisan asshole” is about the nicest thing you can say about Lonesome Polecat.

[curlcoat]

Heh, why did I know this was going to turn into a bash the Pubs thread right away. Good try OP.

[user_hostile]

I call this a “man-in-the-middle attack” thread.

[brazil84]

What annoys me is when PAs (partisan assholes) criticize behavior of one party which is regularly engaged in by both.

For example, some folks seem to feel that the Republicans are terrible for attaching conditions to a bill to raise the US debt ceiling; that this is an unprecedented low.

And yet a quick Google news archive search shows that this tactic has been in use by both sides for decades. The earliest reference I could find to this practice was in 1881, when President Hayes vetoed a bill to roll over funding of the national debt because it contained (in his view) an extraneous provision which limited bank competition.

[Starving_Artist]

I find it amusing that here on the Straight Dope, where posters such as Lobohan and elucidator regularly impugn the intelligence of anything and everything conservative, where posters such as Miller post statements to the effect that “Partisan asshole" is about the nicest thing you can say about Lonesome Polecat”, and where posters such as Kaylasdad99 state with complete conviction the belief that people have to be evil to begin with even to become Republican in the first place, that it’s Lonesome Polecat who gets targeted first for partisan assholery.

The fact is that on this board, 99% (at least) of all partisan political postings are made by liberal/Democrat posters. Thus, a conservative poster pretty much by necessity has to speak up strongly (read, assholey) in order to be heard above the din and to get his point across in the face of the virtually endless mischaracterizations, insults, and straw man arguments that meet virtually anything a conservative poster says.

So, given that the OP is a poster who even I think of as fair and even-handed, I think he is inadvertently, and probably unconsciously, exposing a stronger leftward bias than he is aware of by virtue of the fact that it is Lonesome Polecat whose partisanship has first and foremost gained his attention.

[SenorBeef]

What? People are mean to you, so you have to be a dumb asshole who makes bad arguments? That’s your excuse?

Look at Sam Stone. He often posts things that are quite contrary to the general leanings of this board, but he’s always polite about it, makes good arguments, and is well informed, so he gets a lot of respect. Compare that to the reception you get around here.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Starving_Artist

I find it amusing that here on the Straight Dope, where posters such as Lobohan and elucidator regularly impugn the intelligence of anything and everything conservative, where posters such as Miller post statements to the effect that “Partisan asshole" is about the nicest thing you can say about Lonesome Polecat”, and where posters such as Kaylasdad99 state with complete conviction the belief that people have to be evil to begin with even to become Republican in the first place, that it’s Lonesome Polecat who gets targeted first for partisan assholery.

The fact is that on this board, 99% (at least) of all partisan political postings are made by liberal/Democrat posters. Thus, a conservative poster pretty much by necessity has to speak up strongly (read, assholey) in order to be heard above the din and to get his point across in the face of the virtually endless mischaracterizations, insults, and straw man arguments that meet virtually anything a conservative poster says.

So, given that the OP is a poster who even I think of as fair and even-handed, I think he is inadvertently, and probably unconsciously, exposing a stronger leftward bias than he is aware of by virtue of the fact that it is Lonesome Polecat whose partisanship has first and foremost gained his attention.

Uh… Newsflash: bipartisanship should play second fiddle to being right.

[Implicit]

@Jonathan_Chance

It’s back to what appears to me to be an ill-informed attack on the left as a whole. This saddens me.

The fact is, I believe Lonesome Polecat when he states that he is not trying to be confrontational in his OP. However, if that is not the case he shows a strong tendency to demonize as a whole the political party, as well as its adherents, fellow travellers, well-wishers and so forth, with a brush as broad as I have seen wielded in serious discourse. And I believe I have seen a great many wielded. I suggest Lonesome Polecat should get out more, read more, and experience a more varied world. It would be my hope that such would prevent later lapses into broad brushing, as it were.

If that’s the best he can do when trying not to be confrontational, that really is sad. How is it even possible to fully understand an issue if you can’t see it from the other point of view? That isn’t blinders, it’s a blindfold.

[Starving_Artist]

@SenorBeef

What? People are mean to you, so you have to be a dumb asshole who makes bad arguments? That’s your excuse?

Look at Sam Stone. He often posts things that are quite contrary to the general leanings of this board, but he’s always polite about it, makes good arguments, and is well informed, so he gets a lot of respect. Compare that to the reception you get around here.

He gets insulted and called names and has his intelligence questioned just about as often as any of the board’s other conservatives do on a post-by-post basis. It just seems like less because he doesn’t post as often, and he generally doesn’t reflect back the abuse he gets from his opponents. But even so he still loses his temper occasionally due to the insults and intellectual dishonesty that his posts frequently get met with and tells his opponents in effect to stick it where the sun don’t shine.

But since we’re on the subject, I wonder why it is that the conservatives on this board are always expected to be on their best behavior but that same standard never seems to apply to the majority.

@Budget Player Cadet

Uh… Newsflash: bipartisanship should play second fiddle to being right.

That’s all well and good in theory. But in practice what’s “right” hardly sees the light of day if it’s coming from a conservative POV. Anything posted from a conservative viewpoint is immediately set upon by numerous posters spouting insults and straw man arguments so rapaciously that they’re almost impossible to keep up with and refute, and of course the result of that is that the phony accusations and the refutations become the focus of the argument rather than whatever was the original point to begin with.

[Miller]

I’d like to submit a minor edit to my previous post.

“The nicest thing you can say about Lonesome Polecat is that he’s not Starving Artist.”

Thank you.

[SenorBeef]

@Starving_Artist

He gets insulted and called names and has his intelligence questioned just about as often as any of the board’s other conservatives do on a post-by-post basis.

Really? So if we polled the board, and asked who has more or less credibility, who is more or less hated, you think he’d score the same as you?

That’s all well and good in theory. But in practice what’s “right” hardly sees the light of day if it’s coming from a conservative POV. Anything posted from a conservative viewpoint is immediately set upon by numerous posters spouting insults and straw man arguments so rapaciously that they’re almost impossible to keep up with and refute, and of course the result of that is that the phony accusations and the refutations become the focus of the argument rather than whatever was the original point to begin with.

You are bad at arguing. You are usually wrong. Rather than put up or shut up, you instead buy into this victim complex where you convince yourself that of course you’re right, it’s just that the entire world is against you and can’t see how right you are.

I mean - look at the argument you and I had on the “rich” thread and tell me with a straight face that I did anything other than wreck your bullshit. There were no straw men or nothing phony, just you dodging because you are not man enough to seriously evaluate your arguments.

[mhendo]

@SenorBeef

What? People are mean to you, so you have to be a dumb asshole who makes bad arguments? That’s your excuse?

Well, it does fit perfectly with his contributions.

@SenorBeef

Look at Sam Stone. He often posts things that are quite contrary to the general leanings of this board, but he’s always polite about it, makes good arguments, and is well informed, so he gets a lot of respect. Compare that to the reception you get around here.

What’s even more hilarious is that smart conservatives, who might agree with Starving Artist’s politics on particular issues, very rarely actually back him up in debates here, because they apparently recognize that he all noise, no signal.

[Budget_Player_Cadet]

@Starving_Artist

That’s all well and good in theory. But in practice what’s “right” hardly sees the light of day if it’s coming from a conservative POV. Anything posted from a conservative viewpoint is immediately set upon by numerous posters spouting insults and straw man arguments so rapaciously that they’re almost impossible to keep up with and refute, and of course the result of that is that the phony accusations and the refutations become the focus of the argument rather than whatever was the original point to begin with.

Here’s the thing though: people who have a good grasp of not only the facts but also reason and logic don’t tend to be conservative. :rolleyes: Furthermore, I haven’t been here very long, but I can say with some certainty that most of the conservatives I have met on other forums (The Escapist, for example) have been extremely out-of-touch with reality (look at this thread and posts by xpowderx and you’ll see exactly what I mean). That the main conservative news network constantly either gets it wrong or lies about issues, all to favor republican agendas, doesn’t help either. And from what I can tell, people have already gone over this with you-it’s not that everyone else is wrong; every once in a while, it’s you.

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Starving_Artist

He gets insulted and called names and has his intelligence questioned just about as often as any of the board’s other conservatives do on a post-by-post basis.

Well, I just quoted Sam Stone in a thread and said he had some good points. You on the other hand, have never been correct about anything here, ever.

[Starving_Artist]

@Miller

I’d like to submit a minor edit to my previous post.

“The nicest thing you can say about Lonesome Polecat is that he’s not Starving Artist.”

Thank you.

And thank you, Miller, for illustrating yet again the substance of my post. Why should we on the right behave in a less partisan way when we’re constantly subject to sniping of the sort you engage in? I can’t remember the last time you’ve taken pot shots like that at any of the board’s innumerable left-wing posters.

@mhendo

What’s even more hilarious is that smart conservatives, who might agree with Starving Artist’s politics on particular issues, very rarely actually back him up in debates here

Ah, another long-time adversary pops in to issue gratuitous insults aimed at a right-wing poster.

The fact is, and I’ve pointed this out numerous times before - perhaps even to you - but none of the board’s conservative posters that I’m aware of generally make a practice of coming to each other’s aid. Part of that is due to the well-known conservative belief in self-reliance and that people should be able to take care of themselves, and part of it is due to the fact that conservatives - or at least those who populate this board - simply have an aversion based upon the quality of their character that prevents them from engaging in the type of tag-teaming and dogpiling that so many of the board’s left-wing posters love to engage in.