Hockey Monkey:
There were 19 to start with and 5 scum. There are 4 scum left.
Gah! I forgot Santo! :smack:
Let’s see if I can count right this time.
19 to start.
14 town
5 scum
6 are dead, only 1 scum.
13 of us left…4 scum.
It’s worse than I feared. Only 9 of us are town and only 2 have to be misguided this time for a no lynch. 
Well, count me as one of the “misguided”. I can’t pull the trigger on brewha though because I know his day 1 attack on me makes no sense if he were scum. Unfortunately, my alignment isn’t verified, so my reasoning only works for me (but put yourselves in my position if you are town… he would know I had no reason to lie so he would know his reasoning probably would not hold up).
Although I think sachertorte is a better choice, I’m willing to start up the faithfool train again.
unvote: sachertorte
vote: faithfool
OK, wait a minute. Am I missing something? The Day ends on Wednesday, right? Not, like, in seventeen minutes. There is an awfully intense push in this thread to get people to vote as a bloc - and, implicitly, to vote for brewha, because we don’t want a no-lynch, and some people haven’t voted, and HURRY UP AND VOTE FOR BREWHA AREN’T YOU A LOYAL TOWNIE WHAT DO YOU WANT A NO LYNCH?
We have 48 hours. This is time enough for people to vote based on reasoning. This is time enough for existing votes to change if a compelling case is made. It is too far from the deadline for panicky insistence that everyone vote along party lines to ensure a lynch.
For my part, I am not going to vote in response to this sort of pressure. It’s a waste, and there’s no reason to put brewha, or anyone, even close to on-the-clock status with this much time remaining.
Now, I do have a vote. It’s going to be for Freudian Slit, if anyone is interested. Unfortunately, I don’t have time to make my case right now. I’m opening another show this Friday, and I just got home from a technical rehearsal (it’s about midnight); I could stay up another hour to write it all out, but I’m too tired to do that. It’ll happen tomorrow, though.
In the meanwhile, I’ll start with this: I remain fairly suspicious of Diomedes, of course, and to a lesser extent of brewha and sachertorte. But one of the things I’ve noticed watching other games is that there are times that everyone who is part of the dominant “storylines” early in the game turns out to be non-scum. So I did a complete re-read. I actually re-read assuming that I was wrong about nearly everything (I’m pretty confident about Hal being non-scum, and moderately confident about faithfool, so I didn’t change those assumptions). Rereading with that in mind was eye-opening.
I found that Freudian Slit has been what I’d term a bit disingenuous, pushing toward well-worn avenues, stifling novel discussion in favor of redundant conversation, making pronouncements of trust in other players without much evidence or reason. Imagining that everyone involved was town made her behavior pattern look more noticeable. All to be documented on the morrow, but for now:
vote Freudian Slit
You’re voting for ME? Of all people?
Seriously, the only reason I’m so keen for a vote is because of Hockey Monkey’s insistence that it is important to vote. And considering how town is dropping like flies, we pretty much have no choice here.
Come on, story… you haven’t noticed that this isn’t the most active group of players, ever? I got accused of killing a day short, when I only did so after 24 FUCKING HOURS of inactivity!
I’m glad to see you’re trying to create a case for someone new, and I’ll go back and look at Zoggie just to see what I think about it. I do,however, think that impetus has a huge part to do with this particular game’s lynchings.
For now, I’ll unvote, trusting myself to check back Wednesday mornign at the latest.
unvote: brewdog
(because everyone deserves a misnomer on their votes from me)
Here’s another thought on brewha:
I’ve decided that I’m not voting for him because his day 1 attack on me, whereby he wronly accuses me of lying about my dossier, makes no sense to me (town), because brewha as scum would know I had no reason to lie, and would have to know his “evidence” (can’t find my dossier items in one thread) was flawed and would likely be exposed as wrong (which it was).
For the benefit of the rest of the town that does not know my affiliation, brewha’s actions don’t even make sense if we’re both scum. First you’d have to assume that brewhascum would attack zumascum on day 1 with reasoning he still knew would not hold up… and to what end? If scum launch an elaborate gambit (which is stupid and unlikely on day 1), it has to follow through with one sacrificing himself for the others’ benefit (which it didn’t). But on day 1? Come on. It has to make sense and it does not either way.
(and yes, I realize it would make sense if I’m scum and brewha were town, but it also makes sense if we’re both town. I know I am and I now suspect brewha is as well, more than most people here, after thinking about his day 1 attack some more).
I’m not saying hurry up and vote brewha. **Brewha ** just happens to be the person I’m voting for. Yes the Day ends Wednesday. That’s no reason for us to rest on our laurels and do nothing for the next two days. If there are other cases, I want to hear them. Convince me that I shouldn’t vote the way I am. Make a compelling case for someone else. But come Wednesday, every Townie needs to be voting the same way. Whoever that’s for. If you can’t see that, then there isn’t much more I can do.
I maintain my stance on brewha. If he were town, the scum would have lynched him yesterDay. All that was needed was one vote. Easy enough to be the hammer in that case. You just say you didn’t want a no-lynch. No one wanted to to that. What reason would the scum have for not doing that? **Brewha’s ** scum!
zuma, do scum always make well reasoned, well thought out attacks? A little WIFOM for you. You can’t say scum will or won’t do something, based on your alignment. Maybe he’s scum who saw an opportunity to smudge you, even though he had to backtrack later under the guise of confused townie.
storyteller, I’m almost fully convinced now that you are scum as well. I’ll use what remains of this day to make my case (just in case I get killed toNight.)
This is some great thinking. Really - no sarcasm here. I think you are really on to something.
But, you need to rethink your primary assumption. Let’s take your question of why I wasn’t lynched, but assume I’m town - not scum.
The only way my lynch doesn’t happen is if all the scum were already voting for me. What’s the accepted count? 4 scum left? At the end of yesterday, Sach, Hockey Monkey, Frued, Rysto, Hal, and Pleo all voted for me.
For now, I’m assuming you, Hockey Monkey are not scum. If you were, you would know why I wasn’t lynched and it would be silly of you to point out that all scum were already voting for me. That leaves - Sach, Frued, Rysto, Hal, Pleo. Five votes, four scum - and one town. The only other problem I see is that HazelNutCoffee didn’t vote and seemed to be oblivious to the game. So, she could be scum and one of the other four isn’t. Or more likely she is just an absent minded town. My reasoning is that if I were to have a more exciting role - like a scum role - I’d be less likely to just forget about it.
I’m not voting yet, since we still have more than a day. But let’s talk about this theory. If, I am indeed town, why wouldn’t the scum have offed me yesterday? What other possibilities are there?
What do you think is important to scum? Town lynching town or anonymity?
It could be argued that the scum saw that the only two possible outcomes of yesterday were a town lynching or a no lynch. If there was a silent pig that hadn’t voted for me, would they want to come forward and make that last vote? When my death scene showed that I am town, I’m not so sure that scum would want to be the last vote counted. Sure it would be easy enough to be the hammer in that case – but wouldn’t we notice who the hammer is?
The possibility of scum being called out as scum is probably far worse of an outcome for scum than a no lynch.
This really muddies things up. If you can believe that I am town, then I wasn’t lynched either because all the scum had already voted for me or that the scum decided to stay in the shadows and anonymously kill a town once night fell.
When they could have had 2 kills for the price of one? Nah. In a game setup like this one, where you don’t get a lynch if there is no majority, it is much easier for the hammer to claim that they were just doing the town a favor and ensuring a lynch. It’s part of the dynamic. So no, I don’t think the scum would have let the opportunity pass. In a previous game, **Santo ** was a scum hammer 3 times in a row!
I hadn’t thought of the possibility that all of the scum were already voting for you. I think it’s very very remote that it happened that way. Scum rarely will put all their votes in the same pot. While I have to give some weight to the possibility, I think the more likely scenario is that they didn’t bus you.
I need to do some rereading, but in the interest of further discussion here is how I currently see things. For the record, my reasoning is going towards meta-gaming and dossier rationales. Partially because it is the way I think, but also since I have never talked to anyone in this game before it is hard for me to notice personality shifts, since I don’t know what personalities are usually like.
People I’m currently willing to vote for
Brewha
Brewha is right in that it might very well be town versus town and there were just some major misunderstandings. I still though think the case against him is strongest and I am going to leave my vote there unless it is needed elsewhere.
Faithfool
I do believe she voted for herself, because she was overwhelmed and I do think Mtgman sent her a link to that other website. However, I find the 2nd confirm to be suspicious and her first defense seemed a little bit too well thought out for my tastes. Additionally, she does not really seem to be coming up with new ideas, which are necessary in order to find where the scum are hiding.
People I have suspicions of.
**
Hal Briston**
I go back and forth on him. On the one hand, his ability makes much more sense as a scum then as a town member. On the other hand, why tell us of the ability if he is a scum? On the other other hand, perhaps he was lying in order to hide was the true scum secret ability is. On the fourth hand, maybe him having that ability is to notify the town that the scum have it too, and are using it to lie about dossiers. At this point I’m leaning towards believing he is town based on the fact that 14-5 plus first kill is pretty favorably scum numbers, (Right?) so I don’t think the scum have extra powers. In conclusion, I need more hands.
Sach
I think the case against him has merits and I shall do further analysis upon it.
Pleomedes
My reasoning on him is almost entirely his actions are so anti-scum that he must be scum. Am I paranoid enough yet?
Diomedes
Like with Pleo, I think the scum scattered their dossier revealed and my gut says one of the first two revealed was scum. I do not find the rest of the case against Diomedes particularly compelling.
People I have no read on. (This actually might be where scum lurk)
Freduian Slit
Zuma
Rysto
Person I thought wasn’t scum, but I am a bit less sure of now.
Storyteller
I’m kind of surprised he is still alive. I’m interested to see what Hockey has the say on the subject.
People I believe are town
Hockey Monkey
I understand scum can be helpful, but I don’t believe they would be quite as helpful as Hockey Monkey has been.
**Hazelnutcoffee. **
I don’t think you forget about the game if you are scum.
My largest suspicions are directed at Pleonast and Diomedes for their continued disbelief over my role. Hockey Monkey pings me as well, but as others have mentioned, she’s been very helpful. That doesn’t necessarily exonerate her, but it keeps her off my personal chopping block for now.
I don’t particularly want to see brewha swing, but I recognize that someone has to be lynched toDay – I have a feeling he’s town, but could very well be mistaken.
To sum up: vote Diomedes, but if need be I’ll grudgingly switch tomorrow.
Who likes vote counts?
5 - brewha (HM, Freudian, hawk, sach, faithfool)
2 - Dio (HNC, Hal)
2 - faithfool (zuma, Pleo)
1 - Freudian Slit (story)
10 out of a possible 13 votes have been cast. It takes 7 votes on a single player to cause a lynch. 9 votes on one player will end the Day.
You have about 25 hours left to make a decision.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘they didn’t bus you’. But, I’m guessing it means something along the lines of say that I’m scum and that my fellow scummies decided not to vote for me.
That makes sense that given the chance, the scum would throw in their vote to ensure a town lynch. If we can agree on that, there’s only two possibilities here.
-
I’m scum and the other scum delayed voting or played other shadow games to ensure a no lynch.
-
I’m town and all the scum had voted for me.
We have to options here.
Option 1. We kill me off to prove that I’m town. Then we kill every person that voted for me yesterday.
Option 2. We believe that I am town and just kill off everyone that voted for me.
If there are only 3 scum left, either option will work. Worst case scenario we lynch me and the two innocent people that voted for me. We can still have 3 mislynches and win.
If there are 4 scum left, and we lynch me today, we only have one more mislynch to burn. If we can believe that because Hockey Monkey brought up this question of why I wasn’t lynched yesterday, she is town, then we are still guarenteed a win.
Of course this is all based on the assumption that all the scum did indeed vote for me. If one of them were just not paying attention at the end of the day, my theory is shot.
EBWOP:
My logic is messed up. It doesn’t matter how my scum there are left.
6 people voted for me. If there’s 3 scum, 3 town voted for me and we get 3 mislynches.
If there’s 4 scum, 2 townies voted for me and we get 2 mislynches.
Either way, I’d rather we didn’t waste one of them on me since the only thing I do know is that I’m not scum. If we do have to waste the first one on me to prove I’m town, I would hold off on killing Hockey Monkey since, IMO, she is the least likely out of those who voted for me to be scum.
Thank you for this. I much prefer understanding why people disagree with my assessments rather than to be flatly told I’m wrong. I understand your perspective and I have to admit, that going after you the way brewha does seems out of character for scum to do on Day One, but you could be scum too and who knows what scum might have planned on Night Zero. With the number advantage given to scum, I can see scum taking a calculated risk and scummy brewha going after scummy zuma (even townie zuma for that matter). I look at brewha’s behavior and see that it doesn’t make sense for Town to behave that way. I’ll try to take another look at brewha and other candidates, but the Day 3 close-but-not enough near lynch has me thinking scum protecting scum.
Hockey Monkey, I wonder if you are seeing the same thing I’m seeing.
brewha, seven people voted for you Yesterday. We needed 8 to lynch Yesterday, but due to Kat’s death, we need 7 to lynch Today.
Here’s a thought: scum killed Kat, who did not vote for brewha. If brewha were scum, wouldn’t it make more sense to kill off someone who was voting for brewha to better protect him?
Besides some arguable analysis of the game setup, what evidence is there that you’re telling the truth about your role? Your claim is not self-confirming. Lack of a counter-claim is not convincing when the game setup implies no power roles at all. So I am skeptical of your claim.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I’m keeping my vote on faith for now. I’m willing to switch to brewha before the end, though.
It’s much too long to repost here so I made you a google doc. It includes post numbers and quotes for context. I’m delving in now.