I think you may have misread my post - I’ve bolded the pivotal word. If this bond can develop between mother or father and a child that has no biological connection, why is it so difficult to imagine similar bonds with another animal?
I don’t know. Why do some women not feel a need to reproduce at all? Genetic mutations* and hormonal differentiations exist on so many levels and exhibit themselves in so many different ways, it’s impossible to predict anything with 100% certainty.
Mutation does not mean freak. It means change different from the norm.
Okay. Then I’d say she was suffering an hysterical pregnancy and request a psych consult.
[QUOTE=Maureen]
It seems people are trying to go to great extremes with the “what ifs” in order to prove that people with pets have the same kind of relationship with those pets as parents have with children. … QUOTE]
The “what ifs” are our way of trying to discover the edges of an argument we’re having difficulty with. Please bear with us.
She’s brain-damaged. She can think her cat is President Hoover.
She has the right, but that doesn’t make it so. And no, she fucking well DOESN’T have more right to call her cat her kid than an adoptive mother, because no matter how brain-damaged she is, she can’t deduct the cat on her taxes, she doesn’t have to teach her cat how to be a decent human being, and when it dies she’s not required by law to tell the government.
As much as I HATE to agree with Maureen, this is fucking ridiculous.
Oh… and she’ll never be bitched at by a catless person for taking her cat into a nice restaurant. :rolleyes:
That’s fine. So you’re disagreeing with Maureen in that the right to parentage is equal to capacity to love. Instead, it’s a government thing? Is that about right?
Similar? Yes, that I can accept. The same kind of bond as with a human child? No. I think people who convince themselves that their pets are on a par with human children and treat them as such (not pet owners who love their pets, but people who take it to the extreme of treating those pets as “human”) are compensating for the lack of a child. Why else would you treat an animal like a child, complete from trying to interpret their barks and meows as “human speech”…and by human speech, I mean trying to find actual human words in those barks and meows… to taking the animal to sit on Santa’s lap. I don’t care what you say. That isn’t for them. It’s for you.
Um, no, I’m thinking she’s saying a cat isn’t a human, and wishing doesn’t make it so.
That’s our issue exactly with “Mojo’s Chair.” It’s old, it’s broken, and it’s the most damned uncomfortable thing I’ve ever sat on. He loves it so we keep it. We also warn people that it’s old, broken and damned uncomfortable, but the dog unaccountably finds it to be his favorite place to sit around and shed, so we keep it. But it’s not like we run shrieking at the guest screaming, “DON’T SIT ON THAT! IT’S THE DOG’S!” We just explain and point them to the seats that are fit for humans, so they know we’re looking out for their comfort, too. And some brave souls have tried it out anyway. It’s almost like a reverse “Princess and the Pea” test - what does it say about you if you can tolerate the dog chair?
And to the rest, I’ll think and talk about my dogs anyway I damn well please, thankyewverymuch.
Isn’t your whole “sorry you’re lonely” line basically the same thing that you’re complaining about getting from the other side? I know you said in a later post that you meant no offense, but it seems just as wrong to me to assume that dog owners must have gotten their pet because they lack enough human companionship. Why did you get a cat?
Frankly, I agree that some people are a little whacko when it comes to their pets. But before I get accused of trolling, let me say that I’m less interested in the conclusions here than the logic behind them. I think some people are a little whacko when it comes to attributing mystical forces to humans in order to separate us from other animals. That’s why this discussion is valuable.
No, I don’t think you’re trolling at all. I don’t invoke God or apply mystical forces in order to separate us from other animals, in fact the reason I think anaamika is wrong about homo sapiens having instincts is because we’re animals. We’re higher up on the evolutionary chain. Our brains are more developed, we’re capable of manipulating our surroundings to fit our needs to a more sophisticated extent, we’re capable of reasoning, we’re self aware. That’s where I make the distinction.
re: Santa Claus. I know that some shelters (our own included) have a fundraiser wherein folks bring their pets for pictures with Santa Claus. Most folks doing it know that it’s silly, but it’s for a good cause, and a lot (by no means all) of the folks who spoil their pets rotten have a sense of humor about it.
Daniel
I got a cat because I think that children should grow up taking care of an animal and I didn’t want a dog. It wasn’t for companionship. He is company, if you like diva-type company. Plus, the aloofness of cats appealed to me. The last thing I want is someone or something following me around the house all day.
This has turned into a wreck of a thread. Perhaps pets are the new religion or politics? (dont’ discuss in company). I think that pet owners should love their pets, please. Take care of them, please. Be responsible with them etc. I feel the same about parents. But one is an owner and one is parent. It’s just not the same. Not the same does not mean inferior or bad or wrong or less than. It’s just different. It’s apples and oranges in a way.
I agree. I have no problem with this, as long as you stipulate that your making allowances is not required by all pet owners or by those who either don’t have pets, don’t like pets or don’t want pets.
Pets can add a great deal to the quality of life–if they are desired and welcome. Just like kids.
I hope this post gets thru-I ahd this long one all set to go and my puter crashed. All I am saying thru this very odd thread is that I don’t like the blurring of lines that has occurred re kids and pets. If you refer to your dog as your furbaby in my presence, I won’t correct you-that would be rude. I will react to your dog just like I would a rude child, if the dog is not under control, though.
And I can’t believe this needs to be said, but the word “kid” is slang for human offspring. It has been taken by pet owners to refer to their pets. Enough with the denotation of “kid” already.
Sorry, Ya Wanna --I dont’ mean to sound like I am laying conditions etc. That should read, but I would stipulate, not you stipulate…
So is the mechanism that bonds a never-been-pregnant human with a non-biological child physiological or a learned behaviour? If it’s physiological what is it and why doesn’t it work with pets? If it’s learned, why can’t it be learned with a pet?
Yeah I have to agree Eleanor, I have never heard anyone press someone hard about having a pet. However, my husband and I get the question CONSTANTLY about children.
Because in order for the same kind of bond to form with a pet, the person in question would have to convince themselves that their pet is human and assign the same kind of expectations to that pet that a parent would to a child. IOW, delude themselves. And we have pills that can help with that now. Joking. Sort of.
Children develop at a certain rate and then continue to develop even after they leave their parents’ home. A pet will not do that. Beyond a certain point, they will stop developing. They will not continue to grow and learn and adapt the way a human child does. You cannot look forward to your cat’s bat mitzvah, or graduation from college, or their first apartment, job, etc., all milestones you look forward to with a human child which reinforce what you have taught them as a parent.
Not only that, Mo --the purpose of parenting is to develop an independently functioning individual. The same is not said of a pet. We don’t have our kids “put to sleep” when they are sick with a terminal illness.
IMO, the names “baby” and “kid” have been misappropriated by pet owners. I don’t know why. There is no disrespect in saying “this is my dog, Woof”.
Some of the pet owners I respect most are the sheep herders and their dogs. Those dogs are invaluable–and the bond between dog and master is quite deep.
I doubt those shepards call their dogs “furbaby”–but does that lessen their commitment? no-so why the insistence on the title?
As for instincts–yes, we do have them. Someone mentioned rooting, another is fight or flight when danger looms. Another is keeping a clear airway–put a bag over your head and tighten it; soon you will struggle to get it off (barring mental illness).
If a woman is so brain damaged to imprint her cat as a baby, the whole analogy falls apart–she is beyond normal human behavior at that point.