Seems to me like “those folks” know just how metaphorical they are. It’s you who’s having the difficulty.
So? They’ve determined how much they value their pets and how much they are willing to spend on said pets. Why is that any of your business?
My car has rack and pinion steering. My woman has a nice rack and lots of opinions.
I know some people whose children are animals… 
I understand that people with kids don’t care for it when other people equate their pets with children, and people with no children feel that people are degrading their feelings for their pets by saying that pets cannot equate in any way with a parent’s love for their child.
It appears to me that most people who have both children and pets (at least the ones who mention it) are in the kids =/= pets category, while people with no children make up the other.
My best friend is an animal lover almost as must as PETA alledgedly is. She loves animals, but her kids are her life. Personally, I like animals enough… enough to know that they’re better off in someone else’s care besides mine.
The people that I do have a problem with are the ones who treat their animals like children and, in the process, deny them their animal nature. Like the people who put a big coat on a dog because it’s cute, only to have him nearly collapse of heat exhaustion, or the people who keep their dogs locked up at home and never let them get out and be dogs. They’re being cruel to the animals, but they’re too ignorant to realize it.
I have no problem with someone saying their pet is “a member of the family,” but that’s different from saying “this is my child.” We know that the are well meaning, but the idea of “these are my children” is rather grating to hear.
I have some friends who were great to hang around with until they got a dog. They love being licked by the dog, and when the dog licks someone, they say “good dog, for giving kisses.” But I have a phobia about dog tongues. Dogs sample the world with their tongues. If they find a strange object in the lawn or see something coming out of the butt of another animal, their most important method of study is to see how salty it tastes. If they had a mentally handicapped live-in sibling who licked every person who entered their house, they would certainly try to put an end to it, but when the dog comes and licks someone, they think it’s great. I’ve even wondered if there is some kind of bad tasting lotion or something I could put on my hands to keep her from licking me (I’ve tried leaving soap residue on my hands to save me from the tongue-lashings, but it failed).
I don’t know if there is a real phobia about being licked, but there should be because I got it. It makes me kind of queasy to feel a saliva-drenched, warm tongue slide across my skin. Ugh. Lucy Van Pelt, I feel your pain. And it doesn’t help to hear “How cute, she’s giving kisses!”
Their cats are great, however. One of them is like a father to me.
We seem to be posting at cross purposes. I would NEVER say that your love for your animals means nothing. That is not at all what I meant.
My beef is that there is an assumption out there that all must want pets–you mentioned the same obnoxious attitude re kids. (as did I, but maybe you missed that).
My whole point is that JUST like you don’t want to have kids, I don’t want to have pets. Neither should look down on the other. I was venting some long held frustration on the idolatry of pets these days. And yes, I agree that there is something similiar to that going on with kids today as well.
I am aware that there are rude folks out there who think nothing of badgering couples about procreating. It’s horrible and they should be called on it and stopped. All I am asking is the same courtesy. And please don’t liken your animal to a child. YOUR individual animal may seem that way to you, but it should not be regarded as such in society’s eyes.
eleanorigby, I’m usually a fan of your posting. But you’ve gone far afield in this thread.
A shocking implication. Never heard it made though, nor seen it discussed. Anywhere. At all. Ever. Have you? I’ve heard people say “If you can’t tolerate a pet, you’re not emotionally open,” and “If you torture a pet, you’re messed up,” but I know plenty of animal-loving people who do not themselves own pets, and neither I nor anyone I know would say they have a problem because they don’t own any.
To echo another poster, say what?
I’d think that as a sensible adult, if you can step back from the thread for a moment, you’ll see how pointless it is to tell anyone else how to grieve and what constitutes “legitimate” sadness. That’s the kind of certainty I might expect from a teenager.
This comes across as a dismissive personal attack, like saying “I’m sorry you’re short and ugly” to someone when you’ve lost an argument.
Please forgive me for singling you out; it’s because I usually like your posting that I’ve taken exception this time. I look forward to reading better posts under your name another time.
Sailboat
My point exactly. There are just as many obnoxious/irresponsible parents out there as there are obnoxious/irresponsible pet owners. They fall into the same category, IMO.
Certainly, though, you can understand how frustrating it is when people constantly dismiss pets as being important parts of our lives. My pets mean nothing to you? Your kids mean nothing to me, either. One of the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me was in response to a comment about us not having kids. She said, “They don’t have kids, but they adopt pets that don’t have homes, and that’s very important.” It meant a lot to me, especially coming from this particular friend, who is a parent and who has lost a child.
Hence, my use of quotation marks. Fickle irony.
Whooosh…the point is that you have a piece of furniture designated for your dog or cat. Thank you for being so hospitable-so much so that you have given over whole pieces of furniture to be used as a dog bed.
Long time has it just about right.
And thank you, Chao --I have always known that my mother was crazy in this way–and since she was like this when I was a child, we could pycho-analyze me and say that my distaste for pets stems from this bizarre hiearchy. I freely admit to it. I do realize that not all (not even most) pet owners, no matter how doting, approach her insanity. (my sisters are the same way about dogs as mom is. Holidays are fun).
Bottom line: I won’t drag my kids to your cocktail parties/luncheon invites, you don’t bring your dog along to my house uninvited (or leave him in the car and make distressed noises throughout our socializing about how the dog is not used to being by himself and may chew on the carseats etc. That was my SIL at Thanksgiving. No, I didn’t let her bring her dog inside. I was already practicing zone defense on her 2yr old twins and 3 yr old). 
Seems simple enough.
?
Why does this cause such ire in you? Were you neglected as a child in favor of your parents’ pets?
I’ve never heard of anyone going into credit card debt, or putting their house in hock for a pet’s medical bills. However, as to the “waste of money” part of that, just economically speaking, how is this a “waste of money”?
This money is going back into the economy. Fluffy’s bill is going to pay vets and pet hospital workers and pharmacies (many of whom use it to benefit THER families and actual real life human kids). It’s not as if it goes into a black hole and NO one gets it.
There are a lot of stupid things to spend large amounts of money on, and people do it all the time. It’s idiotic to live like a hermit and spend all of your money buying gear and flying to bizarre locations to climb mountains JUST because they’re there. What a WASTE of money.
Oh wait, no it’s not. It’s what someone wants to do with their life. It seems nutty to me, but I’m not them, I don’t live their life, or have their emotions, feelings, or wants and desires regarding life as we know it.
I can understand your irritation on the anthromorphizing of animals, as a pet owner too, I think it’s hilarious when folks who don’t understand animals attribute human emotions to their activities.
Ohh he chewed up the door, he must be angry with me for going away. Noooo, he’s anxious, or bored. On the “animals don’t care about you” issue? I don’t agree that they don’t feel strong attachments to us. But since there is no scientific way to determine whether, (or how much) they “love” us. I’ll concede to your argument that they’re cold blooded beasts that would eat us if they could, and don’t care.
But your argument that people who spend money on their animals is stupid, is shortsighted and misguided. As I state above, there are a lot of things to spend money on. Only the person spending the money has the right to say whether it’s “right” or not.
Why? If the person in question doesn’t have children, why should that money go to some kid? The same could be said of any person that spends ANY of their money not needed for absolute survival on ANYTHING other than on other people.
If someone’s passion on a particular subject is so deep and loyal that they go into debt over it, so what? It’s not as if that money would have gone to kids, or charity, or whatever YOU deem an acceptable use for money anyway.
[nitpick]
“My car is like a woman” is a SIMILE not a METAPHOR.
“My animals are my kids” is a METAPHOR (assuming the person saying it does not actually believe they gave birth to the animals in question)
[/nitpick]
Actually, my animals are like my kids because I take care of them and in return get a sense of joy for doing so. Pretty much exactly what I’d get for the first two-three years of a human kid’s life, only my cats are never gonna wreck my car. =P
In all seriousness, I’m not a parent of fur-babies. My cats are definitely cats, even if they’re more emotionally complex and communcative than some non-cat-owners are prepared to appreciate. I just don’t understand why there’s such freakin’ vitriol for people who DO care about their pets to that level–as I said before, once you remove the species from the equation and consider it from a utilitarian point of view, I get more joy out of my pets than I get out of 99.99% of the people on the planet.
There’s nothing “inhospitable” about that. As I noted above, it would be inhospitable to refuse to let a guest sit on a pet’s favorite chair if that’s where the guest wants to sit. But how the pet owners choose to use their furniture when the guests aren’t there is none of the guests’ damn business.
Nor is it a “hospitality” issue. Proper hospitality only requires that you treat your guests politely, and don’t act as though your stuff is too good or too special for them to use (whether it’s because it’s darling Fido’s favorite chair, or for any other reason).
Hospitality does not require you to run your household to suit the preferences of guests when there aren’t any guests around.
My cats have their own suite (where my office is) converted from a two-car garage. Anyone is welcome to sit on the furniture, if they don’t mind leaving covered with cat hair. They will also immediately have a lapful of cat. They are also welcome to sit anywhere in the rest of the house, when we finish painting and the tarps come off the furniture.
My cats are not children. I have cats because I don’t like children and don’t want children. My cats stay indoors 24/7. I do not let them inflict damage on other people’s possessions or property. Can you say that about your children? I’m tired of picking paintballs out of my lawn from the children across the street.
At my hockey team’s latest jersey auction, one jersey sold for $1700, and several went for over $500. The cheapest went for $375. Is it all right to spend money on things like that, if they make you happy?
Fortunately, my cats are all healthy. They get the annual vaccinations and checkups. I honestly don’t know what I would do if one came down with a catostrophic illness. There are a lot of factors to consider.
I also call my cats my “furbabies”. And guess what? I really don’t care if it bothers you. No one is asking you to participate.
Yes-I have heard it–and something similiar is in this very thread. Don’t like animals? There is something sort of “off” about you, is a common assumption. For myself, my mother and sisters still don’t think my family is complete without a dog. Whatever–this is hot button with me, obviously. But also, think of the times in movies or books that it is said that the dog avoided so and so, which triggers distrust in the other characters. Or the obverse–the dogs seem drawn to whichever character and that makes that character trustworthy. Call me crazy, but the presumption is out there.
There is no argument or even discussion about torturing animals here–those people are truly sick. UNLESS people equate “torture” with refusal to pamper and infantilize their pets. I have come across this attitude at the Humane Society–which really wanted us to take two cats (for companionship she said, because I work 2 days a week and no-one is home those days, cat might get lonely). I almost said to her(but was afraid we wouldn’t get our cat, so I refrained):" look, we’re here to give a good home to ONE cat. Cope."
I just don’t understand this culture–dogs on Prozac, cats on life support–I don’t ascribe to it and tend to look askance at it. Are you free to do what you wish with your money and your pets? Of course. But why the need for universal approval and support? Go ahead and spend your money any way you want to. Not everyone shares your priorities–this is news?
I don’t understand this at all. I never told anyone how to grieve a damned thing. My sister lost one of her dogs. I was talking about this with another sister, who immediately jumped on me with that remark. And guess what–losing a human who is close to you (doesn’t even have to be a child) hurts much more than a pet. YMMV. I would hope that a beloved person would matter more than a pet.
There is no win or lose here–it’s a difference of opinion. I assume that one reason some (SOME) people have these blurring of the lines re pets is because they are indeed lonely and need an emotional outlet. Are not pets used as such?
Take a pet into a nursing home and see what I mean.
I am torn between being flattered and being exasperated from the patronizing tone of your last remark.
I am leaving this thread with a great big 
. It seems to me that there is room for more than two “sides” here.
A basic understanding of biology.
I tried to explain this to someone the other day, when one of the nurses ran out of here and tore out of the parking lot because her daughter had a fever of 104 (she’s alright). “She isn’t doing her kid any good driving like that. She isn’t going to get to her any faster.” she said. “You don’t understand. Her child is in danger. It’s a biological response.” She didn’t get it, and I didn’t push it, because she doesn’t have children and no matter how I explain, she WON’T get it. It isn’t a judgement against her, I wasn’t calling her dumb. Just pointing out a fact.
Nobody here is saying you (collective you) don’t love your pets, or even that you love your pets less that we love our children. The fact is, there is a biological tie that people have with their children that you will never have with your pets. Love them as much? Absolutely. I’m willing to concede that. But there is something in our DNA that inexplicably ties us to our children. Why the hell else would we saddle ourselves with a needy, crying, defenseless money pit that turns into a surly, rebellious, obnoxious sarcastic money pit for 18 years? Biological imperative. And no matter how much you insist it’s the same with your pets, it isn’t. Because that biological tie is not there. Unfortunately, if you never have kids, you will never see or understand the difference. And, NO, it damn well is NOT a judgement on you. At all. Nor is it an insult to your commitment to your pets. It’s a statement of fact.
No, not inhospitable. The fact that you are elevating (or not disciplining) your pet to the status of having a piece of human furniture devoted exclusively to your pet is the issue. It doesn’t matter if you’re home alone. The allowance by you of your pet creating territory out of things designed for people is the issue–not where you let your guests sit. Dog furniture is made these days, as is cat stuff. It has nothing to do with guests being present or not–it’s a culture of anthromorphizing animals.
I feel like I am speaking Martian.
But a good cigar is a smoke. 
Hee-hee! I haven’t heard that in years!
OH, thank you, Maureen–you said much of what I wanted to say so much better.
You are a very silly boy.
I’ve done both. Raised two AWESOME kids (the “real” human kind), and have “fur babies”. (I think of this saying as being funny and kind of tongue in cheek, rather than actually meaning someone thinks they’re some sort of surrogate baby).
Pets are not equivalent to kids. No one is saying pets are equivalent to kids. Not even the folks who are going into debt to pay for their ailing pet are saying that. What they are saying is “here is something in MY life, that is important enough to me to make this sacrifice for”. No one has the right to make a judgment on how someone else spends their money (unless you are a bank being asked to make a loan to them).
Liking, or loving pets is not equivalent to not liking or caring about kids. Liking, or loving children? Ditto. It’s not as if, if you do one, you can’t do the other.
Liking or loving anything enough to spend a great deal of money on, or even going into debt for? A second issue not inextricably linked to the issue of how much is too much to love a pet.
Pets, in some ways are superior to kids. You can leave them home while you work. They don’t ask 5 million questions on the way to the dog park when you have a migraine. They are specifically companions, not hormone ordered responsibilities that you created for yourself.
Pets are excellent companions and repositories for various human emotions because…
They are attentiive, cuddly, cute, entertaining, and whether or not they actually “love” humans or not, they give a damned good imitation of it. And whether or not they actually “love” us or not, with all of their good qualities, we humans can love them back whether or not they truly and scientifically proven fact, Love us.
The downside is the puppy training, occasional barf on the carpet (and WHY can they not puke on the linoleum???), and in my case, the psychosis of an aussie needing a job and needing it NOW.
And kids are, in some ways superior to pets. Unlike pets, kid’s aren’t compainions. They are primarily a responsibility and we have them, primarily, in answer to hormones driving us crazy. Pets we pick for the sheer joy and fun of companionship. Kids? Not so much, it’s the old bio-clock just TICKIN’ TICKIN’ TICKIN’ away. And that is NOT to say that they aren’t a blessing and a joy (sometimes) in one’s life.
And to whomever jumped all over Left Hand of Dorkness for his comment about “see:kids”.
Excuse me? Have you MET children? They are natures own concentrated form of ME-ism. They are selfish, self-absorbed little creatures. Not that there is anything wrong with that, that’s nature kicking in too, self preservation and all that. But it IS our job and our responsibility to guide them into growing up to be normal productive members of society, and learning about the outside world, and that it doesn’t revolve around them (parents who let their children scream, in public, at a decibal rate crushing that of the space shuttle launch??? I’m talking to YOU).
I have a feeling the adoptive parents who have already spoken up in this thread won’t be too happy to hear you say that. Because you’re implying that they can’t feel the same way about their children as you feel about your children because they’re not biological. That’s just wrong.