Plus which, the kid is not Obese – calling him Obese puts a medical jargon veneer on his condition.
He’s a Fat Fuck. Get that straight.
I’m curious about one thing, though, Welby. Where’s his dad in all of this?
Another small addition:
For the record, the required physical activity is defined as:
Any activity that produces physical movement and activity. Examples are walking, bike riding, roller blading, swimming, intramural sports, or sports practice. Students who, in their daily activities, walk dogs or walk to and from school may include these activities as part of thier total.
The italics are mine. Basically, the instructor is asking that the kid get something resembling, however remotely, exercise for four hours a week. It’s not in addition to whatever they usually do, it’s in spite of it in many cases.
I agree with the rule, and rarely disagree with anything on general principle. I think it’s sad that the school system is at the point of saying to parents “Hey, make your kids play!”
I agree with it because children need to be out in fresh air and exercising, it helps thier developing bodies and minds. Video games, computers, and television are fine for limited amount, but many children spend all day in front of them, developing flabby muscles, pot bellies, poor eyesight, and few social skills.
In addition, the majority of the kids I’ve seen don’t even develop a sense of accomplishment or pride in thier video game playing. For the longest time, my kid refused to play a video game without the cheat codes. In effect, he wasn’t even playing the game, he was just going thorugh the motions.
I dont’ want my kids to grow up going through the motions, I want them to experience life and learn that it’s a pretty cool thing if you ever get the hang of it.
Welby
doreen thought I posted the example of ‘idiotic stuff school wanted and I didn’t bother w/’. And if people agree w/ me, fine, don’t agree, fine, I don’t care. School required specific permission for student to take medication. Ok, fine by me. My son was prescribed an attomizer for some breathing problems. He was to carry it w/him in case he needed it. The attomizer was a prescription, and the prescription clearly identified the doctor and my son’s name. In order for him to carry it w/him in school, the school required that in addition, I get a slip of paper signed by the doctor identifying it and the need and releasing his medical records. I crossed off the ‘release medical records’ part (with a specific “NO, not allowed”) and wrote my doctor’s name, told the doctor’s office I did so. I thought it was idiotic requirement. Still do. The doctor had ordered it as necessary (hence the prescription), I, as his guardian/parent gave my permission for him to have it/use it as the doctor prescribed. Nothing else should have been necessary, IMHO.
welby et al - why am I so pissed? well, in the first place, despite your later comments about how much info you ‘know’ (again, please reference my comments above, that unless you’ve actually seen the fucking records, you don’t know. She may not be telling you the truth ya know. ditto her comments about fast food - people have been known to exaggerate “gosh all my son will eat is potato chips” ), you don’t know. You assume, but you don’t know. and again, bottom line, her son’s eating habits and health issues are her concern, not yours.
Here, you’re assuring us that you’ll make her cry, call her all sorts of names, and all that venom above, because, in your all knowing eyes, she’s ‘too lenient’.
yet in this thread, in reference to a woman who, in your eyes was too harsh
this is what your plan is
So, if you think some one is too lenient, you’ll call them names, make them cry and read them the riot act whenever they cross your path. When you think they’re too harsh, you’ll break their bones etc. Yes, I understand that there’s middle of the road available between being too lenient and child abuse. OTOH, it appears that, that your over the top responses don’t have a middle of the road (like perhaps, noting that “gee, I wouldn’t make those decisions” re your neighbor, but refraining from sharing in great detail what a waste of oxygen you think she and her demon son are, or for the other woman “let’s hope that the proper authorities examine and investigate this situation and take appropriate steps”, which generally do not include physical torture)
I based my comments here on your OP and your post in the other thread.
As a parent, I’m pretty fucking tired of absolutely everybody in the universe standing by, looking at me and/or my son and assesing my parenting abilities, my relationship w/my son etc., feeling that it’s perfectly reasonable for them to not only judge, but comment on it to me. and don’t bother with the ‘oh, I don’t mean the good parents’, even the very best of parents at any specific moment in time can be harshly judged by the likes of the OP. Context, continuity, total information is better when making such an assesment, not a casual encounter(s).
In addition to the examples I’ve already posted:
when my son was age 15, we were grocery shopping, he was riding one of the handicap carts. we got dirty looks, cause of course, a 15 year old, 6 foot tall, 170 pound kid w/all of his limbs couldn’t possible need a cart. Of course, not that it’s any of your business, he’d just gotten out of the ICU and wanted to pick out his own juices, but didn’t have the strength to walk more than a few feet on his own.
Example - my parents were told they were ‘spoiling’ my sister and that they were being ridiculous in not feeding her peanut butter & jelly sandwiches. Of course, not that it was anybody’s business, but she couldn’t digest peanut butter, and in fact didn’t live to see her 5th birthday.
example - my son threw a hellacious temper tantrum in the grocery store at age 6, We got all sorts of disapproving stares, and I’m sure people felt perfectly fine judging my apparent lack of parenting skills. Of course, there were some serious issues that he was dealing with at the time (involving his dad and frankly no one’s business here or otherwise) and the theapist that I was taking him to (to deal with these issues) told me that it was a good thing that he could safely vent w/me in that way, that I shouldn’t discourage it - we couldn’t ‘just leave the store’, 'cause I didn’t have food in the house (he’d gone for the weekend, but bailed out after the first night).
etc. etc etc.
I find you judgemental in the very extreme, and the depth of the venom you’ve expressed towards these other people is frightening to me.
You give additional reasons to dislike these folks now, but your rant was based on him interupting you. So, with the additional greivences, can I assume that you’ll raise your ‘suitable punishment’, too?
Yes, people can have opinions, and I agree that when behavior crosses a line and becomes dangerous to the child, there’s other issues. And when there was the thread about kids not being buckled in the car, I was on the side of “hey, you stop doing that, there’s no excuse”, because there was an immediate, clear and present threat of danger to the child.
You focused a lot of your original venom on this kid and his eating habits and weight. I’ve heard nothing from your subsequent comments that place it anywhere other than the “totally not your fucking business” category.
you don’t like her or her kid. got it. Put me on the list of folks not interested in your assesment of my family relationships, OK?
wring, I’m pretty sure welby didn’t say jack about your family relationships. He was speaking about a family that he knows. He was ranting. I’ve seen people suggest oral sex with moving chainsaws in rants - generally I assume they are exaggerating for the sake of poetic license.
You’ve had busy bodies but into your personal life. Shitty. However, your reaction to this seems bizarre. Had this child broken into your house and stole items, or screamed in your ear (he’s 14 fer crying out loud), and ruined the party for you and your children, perhaps you would feel differently.
wring, I think it’s to your credit that you try to look for the good in people and that in this specific case it’s also to your credit that you’re trying to reserve judgement. Obviously you’re upset at welby1 and perceive his response to be way out of proportion to the situation. I agree that welby1’s verbiage is extreme in some cases (especially that older quote you posted however irrelevant it is with regard to the subjects of the this thread). Your position is understandable to an extent… every half-way intelligent parent knows that there are moments when their parenting skills look less than capable.
However, this doesn’t sound like such a case. Where welby1 interacts with the mother and son frequently it doesn’t seem likely that he is only catching them during isolated bad moments. There seems to be a pattern of irresponsibility and bad behavior being exhibited. Now, of course, I’m probably never going to meet these people. That being the case I know that I’m ignorant of a million contextual details which welby1, the mother, and the son are privy to and that I am not. Any judgement I make on the matter must rely on welby1’s perception of the events. Is welby1 a little harsh in his language? Perhaps. Was his behavior out of line (i.e. telling the son not to interrupt him)? I don’t think so. Do these neighbors have some bad characteristics? It seems likely. But that’s just what I think. We already know what you think of welby1 in this case. What I would like to know is what do you think of the mother and son in question? What is your perception of them based on the events described by welby1?
Grim
Wring, get a fucking grip. It’s been pointed out many times by many posters that the rant was directed primarily at the mother. Yet you still continue to zero in on one small portion of the rant, and ignore the rest of it. Either you’re much stupider than I’d ever thought, or you’re being deliberately obtuse. Feel free to pick the option you consider more accurate.
We get the point, already. Nobody has the right to malign a whiny, disobedient, obnoxious 300 lb 14 year old, because he just might possibly have a medical problem, even though he and his mother both say he doesn’t. Nobody has the right to criticize the way this woman raises her child, even though she’s enabling his overeating. And when this kid has a massive coronary at the age of 20, it won’t be anybody’s fault at all.
I hate to break this to you, dearie, but letting a 14 year old kid live like that is KILLING him. This is every bit as much child endangerment as not buckling a toddler in, and welby has every right in the world to be angry and upset with this woman.
It’s a damn shame other people have felt the need to butt into your life, but that’s no reason to go off the deep end.
Grim thank you for your comments. What do I think about her/her son per the OP? I wouldn’t hire her as a parenting teacher. It sounds as if there are some issues. But here’s the thing. I’ve got friends, neighbors, relatives, casual aquaintences etc. There’s been some where I thought they were making some choices that I wouldn’t re: their child. In cases where I thought the child was at risk, I called CPS (frankly didn’t get very far w/ them but that’s another rant, they apparently thought there was nothing wrong w/a toddler sitting alone in a city park, dirty, dressed inappropriately for over an hour). In cases where the child wasn’t at risk and the parent didn’t specifically say “what do you think I should do?”, I held my tongue.
I don’t generally find it necessary to share w/them my opinions on their child rearing. And when they give me their unsolicited advice, I make some non commital response and ignore it (or in the case of the stranger, just ignore it), yes, even in the case where they found it necessary to comment on my childrearing, while I thought they were deficient.
and the OP is assuring us that his intentions are exactly to spell out in infinate detail what all she should be doing and the (in his eyes) consequences of her failure, while indicating that he thinks she’s raising a monster etc. Yep, that’s helpful, productive behavior.
alice - it’s an old stand by tactic to suggest ‘well, if it was your house blah blah blah’. Nice try though.
I’m constantly amazed at these sorts of things. What do you anticipate will be the result of the conversation? “Oh, thank you welby, were it not for your insight, I would have continued my poor parenting ways, bless you and may you continue to do good works!”.
I worked a correction center for years. We’d always ask (on intake) what gave people a sense of success, that they were most proud of. Damn near all of the ones who were parents said “their relationship w/their kids”. And they all thought they had this parenting thing down pat. From the woman who knew she was a good parent 'cause she’d make sure her kids had breakfast before she went out to cop (drugs) and hook (to have the $$ for same), to the woman who bragged that her son, at age 6 would get up and get himself ready for school, packing his lunch, etc all on his own, allowing her to sleep in till noon.
They thought they were being good parents. So does this woman. IME, to effect any sort of change w/folks of this nature, it takes quite a bit of finnesse, and often courts need to get involved.
When folks like the OP do what he promises he will, the person gets further entrenched w/their behavior, feeling (quite realistically) that they’re being attacked.
It will not help the situation. at all. And what he’s promising to do is fucking rude in the extreme. Ironic as hell since his original complaint was folks being rude.
and Crazy? congrats - I didn’t realize that you’d been awarded your medical degree, and had been treating the young man in the OP. Of course, most doctors would want to actually see the case before making a diagnosis and prognosis, but hell, you must be really special.
Yea, I got it that he didn’t think mommy was a good mommy. I’ve addressed that ad infinitum.
You think I’m the one going off the deep end, when the OP has posted :
calling him a ‘social monster’ and a ‘social fucking mistake’ and
-as well as the venom I quoted from the other thread. I suggest that you need to get a clue yourself.
Does anyone else picture Eric Cartman while reading this thread?
[Eric Cartman’s mother] More cheesy poofs, dear?[/Eric Cartman’s mother]
The exact same comment can and should apply to you. You seemed convinced that the kid has a medical condition. What is your proof of it? You have gone so far overboard that you are displaying the traits that you want others to stop (making a WAG at the kids condition).
The kid is either a fat, lazy fuck or he has a medical problem - neither of which should excuse his rudeness or tantrums.
adam bullshit. I’m saying and have said over and over “we don’t know” if he has or doesn’t have a medical condition. and as for the b/s that crazy et all posted about ‘this child will die’, let me ask you - you see people smoking. Do you go running up and tell them that they’re going to die from that? do you feel it’s your mission/duty to tell the parent who smokes, ‘your child will die and it’ll be your fault?’
aren’t there all sorts of rants here about fundementalists telling gays ‘you’re going to hell’, and witnessing etc? They certainly believe that they’re right and you’re in mortal danger. But I see folks yelling back at the fundementalists - ‘hey, leave me the fuck alone, who asked you for your opinion?’
Okay, so now grip=clue. Interesting theory, wring. As for being a doctor, we all know I’m not. You don’t have to be doctor to know that carrying around that much extra weight exacts a terrible toll on the body, especially one that’s still trying to develop. The morbidly obese are horrifically prone to heart disease, arthritis, and breathing problems, regardless of the root cause of the obesity.
As for whether welby’s going off the deep end, he’s venting about a situation he’s been dealing with for some time that finally came to a head. The venom you’ve been spewing, however, is far more disturbing because it’s about something you have no reason to be emotionally involved in. You can’t even claim a momentary flare of irrational anger at your first reading of the OP. It’s the next day, and you’re still remarkably pissy about the situation. What’s more, you’re dragging in a response from a thread where others talked about what they wish would happen to a woman who beat the hell out of her kid and then went on the lam.
You keep posting and posting, but you never make any new points. Why do you suppose that is? Please leave the dead horse alone and go away.
you ask me a question, I respond, and then you say ‘why are you bothering?’ INteresting.
Where have I posted “venom” ? Irrational? I’m suggesting that he minds his own business and not take the step of getting into this woman’s face about what he feels are inappropriate parenting decisions. and I"m the bad guy?
If you would bother to read the OP carefully, you’d notice that welby isn’t planning to run up to this woman on the street and give her an earful. He’s just not going to be as polite about these people’s rudeness the next time he gets into this sort of situation with them.
For someone who doesn’t think we should make any assumptions about someone’s health or parenting skills, you sure make an awful lot about welby’s motives and plans.
Oh, by the way, could you please show me where I asked you a question? I’m just not seeing it.
As for venom, it applies to tone as much as vocabulary. In addition to your intimations that the OP is a horrible, judgmental, violent person, there is, of course, this little gem of courtesy and restraint:
that’s venom??? that’s the worst you can find of my posting in this thread? and that deserved to be called ‘venom’??? bwhwhahahahah. well, then, maybe what we’ve got is a [Gleason voice on] failure to communicate[/Gleason voice off]
Last time re: the medical crap. THe OP made certain specific claims “He doesn’t have any medical condition”. I asked, repeatedly how he knew that, he finally came back and said he got his info from the mom. My point has been over and over again. unless you know from the medical files, you cannot make assumptions about medical conditions. It’s pretty damn simple. He made the assertions and claims. I’ve not asserted one thing about the kids’ health except that the posters here have insufficient info to make assertions , including the OP, since at best, he’s relying on the info from the mom (who may or may not decided to disclose things to him). Clear?
re;welby I suggest that you do indeed go back and re-read the OP, specifically the phrase I quoted several times about what he promises to do in the future.
you asking question perhaps not, but you certainly addressed comments to me directly, I submit to you that it’s pretty odd to address me specifically then chide me for responding.
You were one of the ones making assertions about the kids health and potential health. I got sarcastic w/you, (after you swore at me IIRC), and that’s what you now call ‘venon’. And others have sworn at me, you yourself in your post called my intelligence into question etc., the OP called the woman names, and her child a monster and worse.
The worst I’ve done is suggested that the OP in my opinion was judgemental and not doing any good, and a sarcastic reference to you not being a doctor, either.
and you want to call **my ** manners into question? (would a reference to Judith Martin be out of line here?)
I think wring gets today’s prize for completely missing the point of every post in the thread.
welby didn’t say he was going to talk to the woman, he said he was venting about her annoying neighbour, and suddenly you have him interfering in people’s lives - specifically YOUR life (have you even met this man IRL?), being a busy body, and generally ruining things for his whole neighbourhood.
The kid sounds like Dudley from the Harry Potter books - I imagine that he’s quite annoying to be around. Welby was talking about that, nothing else - as far as I can see.
You seem to be taking this personally, when it’s not even directed at you, assuming you’re not the neighbour.
Wring, I just don’t know what to say. On the one hand I could simply ignore your prattling about a situation that you know very little about and let you go your way, or I could explain it all in detail and hope you get it all in one fell swoop.
But first, a few very simple rules.
-
Stop attempting to put words into my mouth. I said nothing about her being too lenient, and nothing about the other woman being to harsh. Those are your words.
-
With the link you posted you point out my words and use them as an excuse to berate me in this post. Granted it was an attempt to contrast two very different subects, but it failed rather miserably and is a little insulting. Please expect the same from me, and see below.
And now your explanation:
To clarify the child’s medical condition, I called his father. I told him I was expaining the situation to a friend and that the friend thought I was in the wrong and wondered if perhaps my friend was right, that his son had some unexplained medical condition. No, I’m right, he’s healthy. Well, as healthy as he can be, considering his weight. His father, a friend of mine, knew about the problem at the house, and apologized for his child and his ex-wife’s behavior. I told him that no apology was necessary (from him) and to forget it. Is this acceptable, or should I try and break into the doctor’s office to get the records?
As for my relationship with the mother/child/father I have known them since before the child was born. I know the father better than the wife, but still have many years of acquiantance with them both. When they got divorced, I stayed in contact with both of them. When I moved back to this area I went to see them both. I have happened to see the wife more often since I’ve been back because we both tend to move in the same social circles. The fact that I’ve known her for a long time doesn’t change my opinion.
You have indicated that much of my venom was directed towards the child’s weight. That is not true. My orginal post consisted of 17 paragraphs, only two of which stressed his weight. In fact of those two, only one sentence in each discussed his weight. The rest of the venom was directed at mom. I thought I would have a lot to quote out about this, but it’s a pretty standard argument that you’ve relied on again and again and I don’t have all day to type this. But you can go ahead and give up on it now, because it’s not true. I railed about mom, and the kid’s laziness, but not strictly about his weight.
Apparently you are unable to recognize extreme rudeness when you see it. My kids came to the backyard and interrupted the conversation several times - politely, as an adult would do. My kids are the same age as the child in question. It has nothing to do with him being a kid and me being an adult. It has everything to do with him ignoring the fact that other people were in the middle of a sentence when he chose to be so intrusively rude on a repeated basis. Furthermore, if either of my children had been rebuffed for being so repeatedly rude, they most certainly would not have thrown a temper tantrum that included screaming and crying. In fact, my kids are encouraged to participate in discussion with the adults, if they feel they want to contribute. They run about 50/50 on participation or not.
I do know. Apparently, you failed to read the addition to my post, in which she explained that her child eats nothing but junk food, I offered up the solution that my wife and I found, and she indicated that he would starve himself. That’s okay, at this point I’m pretty sure you simply don’t want to admit you’re wrong. I can be the same way.
Furthermore, I find it interesting that you’re angry with me, and with other posters to the point of being rude, over a situation that you have nothing to do with. More on this later.
I going to take issue with this, because you clearly were simply looking for a way to justify your skewed sense of direction. I will address this with a quote of my own from the same thread.
I hardly think that hitting a child in the head repeatedly, whether with open OR closed fist, can be considered spanking. I do admit that my post was possibly a bit harsh, though I’ve seen the video and certainly am angered by it. I’ve raised two kids, in very stressful circumstances, including being mere days away from homelessness, but I’ve NEVER hit them in the head, face, or any other part of thier body repeatedly. I have never shaken them. Have I swatted my kids? Certainly, a good swat is occasionally needed to reinforce the point with a small child. But I have never struck my children repeatedly for nearly half a minute. Wring, if you want my true opinions on those who abuse children, whether it’s once or repeatedly, I invite you to look URL=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=124033]here .
Oh, but you’ve been there. I find it interesting that you were more concerned about my welfare comment than the safety of the child. I find it inexplicable that you would pass up such a wealth of evidence to use against me. For instance, in that thread I threaten to “simply beat the shit out of you with a crowbar and left you for dead in a ditch. I would have made you scream for mercy until you died and shown you none.”
Perhaps you’re not as even minded as you think. You certainly had no problem with my venom concerning a woman who was very obviously abusive toward her children, so why take offense now? I think the argument could be made that the target of my OP here is just as certainly abusing her child as the one who left her child in the car. Death by fist or death by chocolate, the end result is the same.
As I said before, most certainly she can expect me to correct her child if that child continues to act like he did. In addition, should she defend him the way she did orginally, insulting me and calling me names, she can expect to be treated in kind. I will not be a punching bag for an overgrown 2 year old or his mother. I will not be called names for expressing, politely, a concern about her child’s behavior. Granted, it may sound a little harsh, but again, I was venting. If venting scares you, hang out in Cafe Society.
This one comes in two parts. First all of the “b/s” that crazy cat lady posted was terribly accurate. Heart disease is a killer, and the child falls under a couple of different risk factors.
Now, considering the high risk associated with his condition, do you still feel that Crazy Cat Lady has posted B/S? I’m sorry I don’t have a medical degree to back those up, but then neither do you. Once again, death by beating, death by chocolate, the end result is the same.
And secondly, perhaps I did the woman a disservice wring, because as I explained to you, she did ask my opinion of these things, and I did not give it honestly. Had I done so, perhaps you would be justified in being so concerned about my apparently terrifying behavior. Instead, I chose to disagree politely and not tell the woman the bald truth as I saw it. If I had done so when she asked me to, perhaps it would have changed her life in some deep, defining way. Perhaps we’ll get the opportunity to find out. Nor am I planning to “run up to her” to express these opinions. But make no mistake, if I am presented with I situation like the last one, I will most certainly take the opportunity to do to her as she did to me.
I’m sorry, wring, but I think you picked the wrong argument to drag out again and again. You’re wrong.
And last but not least, wring let’s get to your personal issues. You state:
While I can understand your concern, I’ll also point out that a lot of your apparent hostility is wound up in things that have happened to you in the past. That’s fine, perhaps you have a right to be angry, but perhaps you should post your own rant about it instead of using my OP as a method of exacting revenge on those who so insulted you. Prior to the paragraphs below, I have nothing about your parenting skills and really can’t understand your very obvious angry tone.
Granted, you didn’t ask for this, but I didn’t ask for your opinion either, so we’re even. I do have one thing to say concerning your son and the atomizer.
Are you really so petty that you would not release your son’s records to the school because you had to get an extra note? The school requests records so that they have a reference if your child is injured seriously at school. Children with prescription medication that they take on a regular basis should most certainly have parent who care enough to forward thier medical records to the school. If your child was injured, an accurate record of the medication, dosage, and health could mean the difference between life and death.
I find this behavior a little irresponsible. What if your doctor wasn’t available? Or you? For the sake of a note that is required as a standard part of your school policy you would risk your child’s life? Wow.
Alice. . .my god, could it be possible? Is she? Hey wring, did I yell at your kid?
If so, I still stand by it all.
And thanks for the comments everyone, I had no idea this would turn into such a big debate.
welby I’m on my way out for the rest of the night. and out of this thread.
I saw you as over the top judgemental in both threads, which is why I quoted your other comments. You don’t like that characterization. So be it. You don’t know me, or my child. For that I am grateful.
RE: medical crap, please refer to other post to CCL, my medical claim is that you (and other posters here) have insufficient info re: the kids health, diagnosis/prognosis. Further quizzing of the parents doesn’t change that. You have what they choose to tell you.
And as for venom, rudeness etc.
is the most vile despicable crap I’ve ever had spewn forth in my direction. You don’t know me, or my son. and for that I will be eternally grateful. I don’t care if you mean this, don’t, apologize, whatever.
You are not worth my time or energy.
Based on welby’s further elaboration of the situation, I shall now make a prediction, much like the title of this thread:
Fat little fucker’s going to get into some serious shit one day and land his ass in jail. I hope it’s soon.
Is it just me, or does anybody else think it’s extremely self-righteous when people whine “I hate it when people judge my parenting by my children.” What the hell else are we supposed to base it on? It’s not like people have to have a certificate to have children (although the Lady knows they should based on some of the kids I’ve taught). If your kid’s a little fuck to me and you don’t reprimand the brat or ask that it apologize sincerely, I’m going to think you’re an asshole too. I’m not saying it’s a foolproof way to judge a person’s character, but it’s led me right far more often than it’s led me wrong.
I wish more people would think before having kids before they actually do it. It’d save me a lot of hassle.