Your experience with Parent Effectiveness Training?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’ve been reading Thomas Gordon’s Parent Effectiveness Training book. The premise seems to be twofold: a) you use a lot of I-messages telling the kid what you honestly feel and (presumably) training the kid to understand that things she does may have a negative impact on you and so she should modify her behavior accordingly, and b) you and the kid try to come up with solutions to problems together instead of in a power/dominance relationship or using punishment.

(I’m using the feminine pronoun because my particular kid is female.)

Has anyone here tried this? Does it work? How do you do it with toddlers? (There was very little in the book about that.) I also don’t understand how it works with getting kids to understand long-term effects. Like let’s say I want my kid to eat her vegetables: do I say “It makes me feel worried that you will have a greater chance of getting sick when you’re forty if you don’t learn to eat your vegetables”? That sounds ridiculous and I wouldn’t blame a kid for ignoring that, but it is a true statement of what I feel.

2

All I remember from my parents’ doing it was the weight of GUILT added. Oh no, I’m making Mommy/Daddy worried/angry/upset again! It’s all my fault! Although I admit for me, that actually was a deterrent, so maybe it worked.

I’m not a parent, but don’t toddlers need more structure and boundaries than reasoning? Might be a bit much to expect that long-term thinking has any chance at that age. Maybe a parent with experience can chime in.

3

Yeah, it made my kid (and me) feel terribly guilty, and that was about it. He’d still act out, only I was making my emotional state his problem, in addition to whatever the natural consequence of his action was. No win all around.

Parenting With Love and Logic has a similar premise to #2, minus the guilt trips. You can work with your kid to solve problems, but with the clear understanding that solving the problem, and therefore the ultimate decision of how to try do that, is up to them. Let the natural consequences (short of health or life threatening ones) be the “punishment”, and leave yourself open to love and sympathize with your kid, while using “thinking words” which are most decidedly not guilt trips. There’s more to it than that, of course, but that’s the basic premise. I highly recommend it; best parenting book I’ve read out of dozens.

Oh, and about the vegetables? Don’t worry about it. Keep serving them, in different ways (raw, steamed, mashed, etc.) and different ones, and if she sees you eating them, she’ll follow suit sooner or later. In the meantime, as long as the rest of your options are healthy, she’ll be eating healthy food anyway. And if she doesn’t want to eat anything? That’s okay, too. There will be another meal at breakfast time, and she can eat then. Unless she’s diabetic, she can miss a meal without ill effects. Will she be hungry? Sure will. Will she whine about it? Yep. And you tell her, with absolute love and honesty, that you know how she feels, because when you skip a meal, you’re hungry too, and you really really look forward to your next one. And then she eats a good breakfast because she’s really hungry. And she won’t be so quick to turn up her nose at her dinner next time because it will be her experience teaching her the lesson, not you being a nag.

4

My mother convinced my father to go to the classes for this back in the 70s and my father hated it and would use the I statements condescendingly. If it was any worse he would have used air quotes. He was a disaster at it. We (as in my brother and I) did the same thing back to him. Good times. Mom was actually serious about it and it wasn’t nearly as annoying. Plus she was just better at guilt.

5

Wow, I wasn’t expecting a 100% negative response! That’s really interesting. You guys rock - I’m glad I asked (and before I started trying this out on my kid)!

WhyNot, I will check out that book right away. The whole “natural consequences” thing sounds much better to me, as it covers a lot of situations in a way that to me seems more understandable to a kid. I’ll also keep that in mind about the vegetables :slight_smile:

6

[quote=“WhyNot, post:3, topic:559490”]

Yeah, it made my kid (and me) feel terribly guilty, and that was about it. He’d still act out, only I was making my emotional state his problem, in addition to whatever the natural consequence of his action was. No win all around.

Parenting With Love and Logic has a similar premise to #2, minus the guilt trips. You can work with your kid to solve problems, but with the clear understanding that solving the problem, and therefore the ultimate decision of how to try do that, is up to them. Let the natural consequences (short of health or life threatening ones) be the “punishment”, and leave yourself open to love and sympathize with your kid, while using “thinking words” which are most decidedly not guilt trips. There’s more to it than that, of course, but that’s the basic premise. I highly recommend it; best parenting book I’ve read out of dozens.

[QUOTE]

I love the Foster-Cline approach to these type problems.

With regard to the vegatable eating, something they might say is: “Dessert is available to those who eat their greens.”

It’s pretty much Grandma’s rule.

7

I do hope you like it. I should warn you that it was written in part by a minister, so it’s a little Christianey, but I, as a non-Christian, was perfectly happy to read the Bible bits as metaphor and advice, I don’t think you need to be a Christian to accept the system. It’s an easy, quick read, too; you can read it in a weekend and put the tools to work right away (unlike PET, which I don’t think I ever managed to finish completely.)

The L&L parent of a three year old might say something like, “I feel really good when I eat my vegetables. They give me energy and make my poop nice and soft so it doesn’t hurt. Did you know carrots help people see better? I can’t wait to have carrots with my dinner tonight!”

See what’s *not *in there? “Should” or “have to”, or even “you”. We don’t tell our kids what *they *should do, we tell them why *we *like to do things, and expect that they’re smart enough to figure out that if they do what we do, they’ll get the same benefits we do.

8

Hmmm, I never saw any guilt at play with PET (I’m very familiar with it, since my first degree and career were in Child Development).

Of course it could be used to instill guilt, but basically I found/find it helpful as a way to train MYSELF in ways of speaking which DON’T imply anything is the child’s “fault”. (or the other adult, FTM)

Saying “I feel angry/frustrated/whatever when you leave a big mess for me to clean up!” is a lot different from saying, as we are conditioned more, imo, to do, “You are such a pig! You make me so mad!” One is a statement of MY feelings and the situation and the other is a personal attack which automatically tends to elicit defensiveness, anger and, with kids, even self-loathing. One differentiates between the person and the action while the other labels the person based on the action.

The latter statement places all the blame/guilt on the other person and also serves as an absolution of responsibility on the part of the speaker; THEY aren’t responsible for their own feelings…they are MADE to feel a certain way. :rolleyes:

Active Listening is another way of training ourselves (and our kids) to communicate more effectively and without guilt. You essentially just acknowledge their feelings and comments, reflecting them back instead of offering advice or trying to “fix” the problem. Who hasn’t been irritated by someone trying to fix their problem when all they are seeking is a supportive ear to help them vent, clarify and/or resolve their OWN problem?

Both techniques can sound absolutely fake and ridiculous, but they don’t have to…both are about a basic approach and putting things into your own words and being sincere.

Even with toddlers, these approaches can work wonders, though it is usually neccessary to still have different boundries than you would with a teenager, say. (duh!)

Both empower the child to solve their own problems and take responsibility for their feelings and actions. Not that it will happen overnight, but it will gradually become second nature and pay off long-term in my experience.

9

Darn phone rang and I missed the edit window…want to add that logical consequences ROCK! Even toddlers can learn cause and effect and to take responsibility for their actions this way…just be sure they are actual logical consequences and not just arbitrarily imposed ones (punishment).

Now of course, that doesn’t mean that you can’t impose rules and consequences based on them (“I need to see all these toys put away before we can leave for the park” or “wow, I see you used your markers to decorate the wall…let me go get a soapy sponge so you can clean it off.”)

I’m not really down with trying to force or manipulate kids (or anyone!) into eating when they don’t want to or something they don’t want to. Has the potential to set up some HUGE and destructive power struggles (and takes the responsibility and power away from the child instead of helping them learn to regulate their own hunger and taste and recognize their own internal cues instead of going by external ones…can also set the stage for eating disorders from anorexia to over-eating).

Kids won’t starve and they will, believe it or not, eat a fairly well balanced diet over time. A classic study was done on this, allowing kids to choose freely from a wide variety of foods over a week. Even if they ate only fruit one day, meat and a few veggies the next, and only bread and candy the next, over the course of a week they all consumed enough of everything to support their health and growth.

Just offer healthy options on a regular basis (including limiting the unhealthy ones…toddlers don’t buy the groceries;)) and leave it alone. toddlers are all about POWER over themselves and their environment and the BEST way to ensure they will dig in and refuse to eat their veggies is to push them to. :slight_smile:

10

(Bangs head on table. Then bangs low-blood-sugar-but-refusing-to-eat-breakfast diabetic toddler’s head on table)

That’s something we’re struggling with, although I know it’s not a problem with most kids. If Gnat gets insulin he needs to eat, and if he refuses to eat he risks serious blood sugar lows unless we give him something he likes.

Sorry for griping.

(Bangs head again)

11

No, no, not at all. You’re dealing with an entirely different situation there, and that one truly sucks. Please don’t think I’m holding out the same advice for you as for parents of non-diabetic kids. See? I even put it in my first bit of advice: “Unless she’s diabetic, she can miss a meal without ill effects.”

I have absolutely zero idea how to handle food pickiness with a diabetic kid. None at all. You’re right, he’s got to get food into him if he’s taken his insulin, and it’s perfect breeding ground for control battles because he knows you’re desperate.

However, I did just find out (thanks, Google!) that Foster Cline, half of the Love and Logic duo, has cowritten another book called Parenting Children With Health Issues: Essential Tools, Tips, and Tactics for Raising Kids With Chronic Illness, Medical Conditions, and Special Healthcare Needs

From the press release:

http://www.parentingchildrenwithhealthissues.com/MediaKitPressReleases.html
I haven’t read it, so I can’t recommend it other than by my favorable impressions of Cline’s other books. Might be worth picking up at the library, though.

12

[quote=“Kelby, post:6, topic:559490”]

I could see my mother with that approach…

13

I can’t image any parent in my day (I’m 46) saying anything like that.

My mother would give me a disgusted look, point to the mess and say “Do I look like Hazel the maid, to you.”

And you better not have had a smart ass answer to that question 'cause then, in additon to picking up the mess, you’d be cleaing the garage as well.

I’m not saying that technique wouldn’t work, it’s just something we would not have used in my day

14

I’ll be looking for both books, I think. We’re in the last stretch of the Terrible Twos, and mealtime is merry hell sometimes. “Mommy doesn’t want to give you any more juice, kid, but Mommy also doesn’t want to go to Emergency with you” is… irritating.