I really don’t get how claiming you are putting Yah first means you can then ignore the things the prophets said. Putting Yah first would mean obeying when he gives you a warning.
Putting Yah first means taking seriously what He asks us not to do. Time and time again we see that Yah does not like mixtures of religion. Putting Yah first means no mixture, even when you claim the pagan aprts are “second.” Yah first means zero pagan practices.
Deuteronomy 13 strikes me as a specific commentary on Commandment 1, IMHO.
David42, how about responding to post #175?
You can listen or not listen. I make no claims as to being “sent from Yah” or whatever it is you want me to say. Listen if it makes sense, I will repeat what was said before. It’s up to you to decide whether another person has credibility or not. What good would it do if I claimed I was a prophet, anyway? Is there a single person here who would respect that, if I made the claim? I don’t think so.
Christmas trees are a pagan practice. It does not matter that they are not being worshipped. Jeremiah condemned the practice; he didn’t say, “but it’s ok if you don’t directly worship the tree.”
In acts 15 we see that converts were abjured to stay away from “the pollutions of idols.” These means not just idols, but the things associated with idols. Even if christmas trees are not themselves idols or directly worshipped, they are associated with idolatry, and therefore should be shunned by anyone who takes seriously the injunction against mixed religion.
You do realize that the Hebrews who went into captivity for this transgression would have had all their rationalizations about why it was ok, too, don’t you? They’d have made their excuses too, its human nature. Still off they went into captivity, regardless.
You’re rambling and not answering my questions. No one I linked to claimed to have been sent by God either. You called the folks from the links I posted false prophets. How is what you’re doing any different than them and aren’t you by your own definition also a prophet?
He didn’t condemn the practice as Christmas trees didn’t exist at the time. He was talking about worshiping idols. People don’t worship Christmas trees.
You’re stretching here. Christmas trees aren’t “associated” with idols any more than churches are or anything related to Christianity.
OK Got ya.
I ask what is the penalty for the violation that the death of Jesus has not covered paid in full?
My answer is the relationship is between God and the person, and really between Father and son (or daughter). This is why Jesus took all the penalties away so there is nothing, no man, between man and God.
In Christ I can do all things. Jesus spent time with Sumerians, the demon possessed, prostitutes and sinners and we are asked to do the same.
In my own walk I have found that where God sends you you go (you can use Jonah to counter any arguments not to), once you are on Christ you have protection to travel anywhere He sends you and you will also see miracles by doing this work. If you trow up religious reasons for not going God can’t use you, you won’t see such wonders, but you will learn that if He haws made things clean you can’t use the excuse. It is a transition from a heartless written code to a loving relationship. Without Christ you don’;t have the protection and better follow the instructions of the prophets, though you can’t follow them exactly anyway, so will get in trouble, need a savior because you can’t save yourself.
The best modern day example I can think of is 2 persons in a troubled marriage or similar relationship. One is trying to please the other and asks what they can do. The person says something like would do this and that and not do this or that. But the real answer is there are no hard and fast rules but a connection of the hearts in love. The first is the OT system the second is the way that Jesus preached, to know that intimately that you act to please Him and Him you as He teaches you His way.
Yeah most of my questions don’t get answered either. I have given you an answer: draw your own conclusion. You cannot trick me into boasting, nor can you force me to agree with others on the grounds that I won’t boast. I will tell you what the scripture says, though. You’re asking me to appeal to my own authority, which is fallacy, and I’m not playing that game. The authority here is the scripture, not me.
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. " Isaiah 8:20
And they’re not worshipping Yah or Yehushua if they ignore him. Yah doesn’t want mere lip service, He wants you to comply with his commandments.
It’s a semantic game to say it wasn’t a Christmas tree because no-one had Christmas yet. They changed the name of Saturnalia so that a claim could be made its not pagan, but instead in honor of Christ, the man who remarked:
Matthew 15:9 “But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.” Doctrines like “it’s ok to have a bunch of pagan stuff mixed in so long as you put God first,” maybe?
Jeremiah 10:2-4 “Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”
So you see, it doesn’t matter what name we call the tree; it is the activity that is vain and of the pagans; Jeremiah didn’t condemn a “saturnalia” tree or “winter solstice tree” he condemned the practice without a name attached to it.
You brought this up before, but what is the violation?
As I pointed out above the Psalms claim we are all sons of the most high, if Jesus is Son of the most high, and Jesus calls God His Father, He is not worshiping any other god but the exact one specified in scriptures.
So I do ask again what is the law He violated?
Grace is not a license to sin but you have obviously bought into the antinomian teaching and believe that it is. We’re supposed to try to mimic Christ, not mock Him.
Why is it that no unclean thing will be allowed into the holy city? I mean, since unclean doesn’t mean anything anymore. What purpose do you have in defiling yourself with the things of idolatry? Did Yah also send you on a mission to reach someone and tell you to do this?
You argue as though you were pardoned from a prison sentence (which you deserved) under grace, and then said, ah, I am free to murder again, rather than appreciating someone else taking the lethal injection for you. If someone does that for you for no reason than love for you, and you go free, don’t you make his sacrifice in vain when you take this to mean you are free to murder again because you received grace?
If someone pays your fine for you, do you conclude, Ah-ha! I knew it wasn’t illegal to speed?
Grace is NOT permission to sin.
I’m pretty sure David42 is a Witness, x-ray vision, and taking his cues fromThe Watchtower, Awake, and The New World Translation(1961), a version of the Bible which can vary radically from the King James and other familiar translations of the Bible. He is arguing from the authority of the Governing Body and the elder’s latest spin on the Bible rather than any commonly accepted tenets. Homogenizing the population of Witnesses practically requires the rejection of all cultural traditions (all over the world) in favor of conforming to temple directives. So no birthdays, no Halloween, no Veteran’s Day, and no Christmas or Easter despite the association with historical Christian events.
If you poke around the Watchtower and Awake for awhile, you’ll find that with each new cultural tradition and advances in technology, a Witness somewhere will plow through the NWT and whip out some ancient, cryptic verse which supports the argument. It’s kind of a cool kind of reverse engineering. Instead of “What could this cryptic verse mean?” Temple elders and the Governing Body asks “Hmm…texting; that’s a new one. Let’s make a rule against it, then poke around until we find a verse that somehow seems to support our new rule.” So at some point, Charles Taze Russell, Rutherford, or some other elder said "Christmas trees??? nah. And this is why: “…blah, blah, blah false idols, not really Jesus’ birthday, etc” (ETA: see post 147)
Waldo’s point isn’t whether the charge was true or not. He’s asking what statute the pharisees FALSELY accused him under. Which both you and I have answered, “it doesn’t say for sure.” Remember, Pilate found that the charge was not true, that Yehushua had done no wrong, remember?
Waldo’s not trying to convict him here, he’s asking what authority the pharisees claimed. (I think, not to speak for Waldo)
But being “pretty sure” leads one into many mistakes. Everything in this post is wrong as it relates to me, except that I do not observe Christmas or Easter. I am most certainly NOT a Jehovah’s Witness. You must have missed my post about Yahweh’s name. I am not “arguing from the authority” of the Witness’ governing bodies. I still do birthday celebrations, as no one has yet proven to me this is a pagan religious custom mixed in with true worship. Veteran’s day has nothing to do with religion, and I have no problem honoring vets.
Do you want me to speak for you, and see how badly I miss the mark concerning your beliefs?
Now, I am a witness, in the ordinary meaning of the words, as in I have seen some things.
Oh, okay. So that justifies you not answering mine. Makes sense.
That’s a bullshit answer.
I didn’t attempt to trick or force you into anything.
But when others do it they’re false prophets? So you do think you’re the real deal!
No, I didn’t.
No, Matthew 15:9 is about following the traditions of the OT. You’re wrong when you say you’ll tell us what scripture says.
We went over this already. Those weren’t anything similar to Christmas trees. They were carved and worshiped as idols. Christmas trees aren’t worshiped.
I’d also add that just because Jehovah’s witnesses are wrong in some or even many things doen’t mean they are wrong in all things. Finding any similarity in what I say and what they say is merely because they also look to see what scripture says, so criticize the scripture if you’re going to criticize.
Grace is not a license to sin, because grace actually makes sin impossible. Yes you can be disciplined by God but only for your good, not to harm (and disciple comes from the same root and discipline I believe). The responsibility for your upbringing is not in the child’s hands but in the father’s. Is in not us that are responsible but Him. That is the deal, we get God as our Father and we are the child. It is God’s responsibility to work all, for the good, so nothing is sin.
Trying to reach the people, what Christ did, is what I try to do. I don’t let rules or laws get in my way and would have no excuse to let them as I have been rescued by angels more then once.
Yes, i know this very well, and this is the basis for many marriages breaking up as one can enter and the other can not. But don’t call anything unclean that God has made clean.
I am free to act in Love.
This is also what Jesus died for, yes it’s true there is no speed limit in the Kingdom, it is a worldly law that the Lord can set you above.
Troppus claims that you may be a Jehovah’s Witness, is this true?
He also said “do not cast your pearls before swine.” Which I take to mean don’t go on and on arguing with someone who doesn’t listen.
Think as you will.
My apologies, David42. Your claims come pretty close to those made by Witnesses. And you are more than welcome to guess at my beliefs, speak for me, or ask direct questions. I’m an open book. So what is the denomination you subscribe to, and from which translation do you draw your conclusions? It would certainly clear things up if we were referring to the same version.
Well, that’s a toughie. Because the NWT was revised fairly recently by a non-scholar, and some of the newly translated verses are quite different from commonly accepted scholarly translations. So I suppose I could eye with suspicion both the NWT version as well as those who subscribe to it wholesale without researching other translations or questioning the changes. But I’d rather just have some idea what text you are supporting.
But criticizing wasn’t my intent; I merely want to be on the same page as the person I’m discussing this with. That would be easier if you would be open and honest about your sources. If you don’t mind, what version of the Bible do you draw your conclusions from, and from what practice?
I asked you questions that you refused to answer you and said your answer to me was “draw your own conclusion.” Your pearls don’t look any more like pearls than Christmas trees look like idols.
This is actually what I was exactly getting at, what is your personal witness?