Yeah, it’s pretty obvious who I am.
I apologize for my flippant statement. In fact, while you were typing I was recalling the stupidly tragic wars of the 80s and 90s, generally started or executed as public relations gambits. We had our share.
For me it’s more like how he doesn’t realize just how little football (the soccer one) means to most Americans, the majority of people on this board, and how silly we find his excessive enthusiasm.
It’s a different point.
You need to give me your assessment of how many so-called football fans there are in England in relation to the number of football fans.
I would say that there are far more of the latter. Therefore less people than you infer would be inclined to view any player breaking Batistuta’s foot as a National Hero.
A Question: If an Irish player broke Batistuta’s foot 2 months before Ireland were to play Argentina in the World Cup, would that player be regarded as a national hero in Ireland?
It is absolutely irrelevant to the point whether there are more “fans” or more “so-called fans”. The only issue is whether there are sufficient numbers of the latter to make viewing of the foot-breaker as a National Hero as widespread in England as you seem to feel it is in Argentina. Now considering that there are clearly enough “so-called fans” in England to embarrass the genuine fans in several other respects (Stand up if you won the war!), it strikes me as severe head-in-sandism to deny that they would do so in this case as well.
Probably not - if only because the Irish wouldn’t consider their players skilled enough to intentionally inflict such a fortuitous injury on an opposition player! Even those happy about the injury - and there would admittedly be more than a few - would be inclined to view it as nothing more than a lucky accident, and not deserving of hero status.
Ya know, I thank god that Ireland have qualified this year, if for no other reason than the hope that maybe the hype from the Irish media might drown out the inevitable overflow of hype from the English media. At least we can justify our media bullshit by protesting “But sure, we’re meant to be shite, who knows when we’ll qualify again, better make the most of this one”.
I didn’t say that. The Buenos Aires Sports Daily Ole wrote it. I was asking why it should be.
I didn’t say the so-called fans wouldn’t embarrass the genuine fans. But exactly what proportion of a country’s citizens need to view someone as a national hero before that person becomes a national hero?
The vast majority of the English would feel exactly the same as the vast majority of the Irish. Happy about the injury but viewing it as nothing more than a lucky accident. And not deserving of hero status.
This is because the vast majority of English people are decent human beings.
I don’t think there are very many of those “so-called fans” in the UK. When we play Argentina we want to play the absolute best team they can put out.
And we want to match that team against the absolute best team England can put out. I think you are misunderstanding the whole point of sport, ruadh. Sport isn’t about winning at any cost. It’s about beating your opponent fairly, when both of you are at your best.
I loved watching Maradona in action against England, I would have been disappointed if he hadn’t played in that World Cup game. Argentina were the better side in that game and deserved to win (regardless of the Hand of God). Truely great players often do bend the rules a little, George Best used to do it all the time.
The “stand up if you won the war” stuff is just banter, the same as when we play Germany. The fans who chant that sort of stuff are reprehensible of course, but those kind of people are usually “true” football fans as well in my experience ie they would prefer to watch a full strength opposition (rather than a weakened one due to injury).
It makes for a better spectacle, which is the whole point right?
Ah, shit.
I clicked on that fully expecting a hand to come reaching out of my monitor with a freshly-pulled Guinness.
Whew. I was scared for my own safety when I clicked on this thread…
Hmmmmm… Do I demonstrate my Americentric contempt for soccer by attempting a hijack and asking HerMajestyLorna how Charlottesville is, or do I demonstrate it by saying, extraordinarily accurately, that an American soccer player who purposely broke the foot of an opposing player would only get mentioned on the news show if it were a very slow news day and then only as comic relief?
Decisions, decisions…
Go for the Charlottesville one.
Damn! For such a dinky town there sure are a bunch y’all! Are you at UVA or something?
I am, she’s not, and I think we’re the only ones.
I’m misunderstanding? Excuse me, when did I ever say I feel that way? I’m talking about the fact that a whole shitload of (people who claim to be) England fans feel that way. Now, they may well be outnumbered by the (people who really are) England fans who don’t, but there certainly are more than a handful of them. Why do you think England fans have such a horrible reputation internationally? Serious question.
Dropzone I warned every one in advance that this was meant for the english, so if you are not interested… Who cares?
Nostradamus I think you have a misconception about argentinians. I started this thread because of the childishish attitude of the English media. An argentinian player injures Beckham and they start complaining about a conspiracy. Then someone, I think you, quoted a sport newspaper “Ole” and claimed that “in certain places Duscher was cheered as a national heroe” are you really surprised that there are a lot of idiots who lives in Argentina? There are, the proportion of
argentinian idots are roughly the same as english ones (unfortunately I don’t have a cite for that). Besides I live in argentina and the only thing that the media have reflected form the incident is the english attitude, Manchester United coach said that Ramsays was right when he said argentinians were animals. What an idiot!!!
This is the first football thread I ever opened it will probably be the last one. I was discussing football and the answers ranged form Malvinas (Falklands) War to the contributions of argentina to the world. Every time I give my opinion on this board there is always an idiot who only heard of my country in regards to that war that answers somethin like “Hey you invaded the flaklands som your opinion on the subject is not valid”. How about I start doing the same?
Again this thread was of football, nothing else. And 2/3 of the poster answered about anything but football. I’ll tell you about Argentina´s contribution to the world I won’t speak about our poets, writers, musics, scientists. The comment that hurt me the most was the one Sailor made, about my country terrible economic situation and the fact that thousands are lined in Europeans Embassies trying to get a better future somewhere else. The fact is that they would be even more, the people that are waiting for a chance abroad are all grandons of Europeans who were welcomed here when the situation was reversed. They were poor and we were rich. We received them all, they were escaping from worse than economic problems and we did not hesitate. Now that the situation is different Europe has forgotten what I told you. And because of the tough inmigration policy it applies, not many of us are leaving.
That’s worth remembering. Also, know that the papers that print articles saying that Duscher broke Beckham’s foot on purpose are papers written for a mainly idiot audience.
We have special newspapers for idiots here. You Americans wouldn’t understand 
PS: I went and fucked myself just like you told me to - it was GOOD!
Estilicon, I like Argentina and am familiar with some of its contributions to the world, though not all, and am especially saddened that a country such as yours, fabulously wealthy in the endowments of both nature and people, would find itself going through such undeserved political and economic straits as the people of Argentina have endured for too many decades.
I just don’t like what football does to people. Or sports in general. They are fun to play. They are often fun to watch. But the partisanship that turns each match into a quasi war and the macho posturing by fans who identify too strongly with the home team make laughing at such people nearly impossible to resist.
As for that regretable war, the line between sorrow and satire blurs as ones helplessness increases. As an individual in an uninvolved country I could do nothing to stop the inevitable tragedy forced by a few tin pot politicians waving their swords and getting the children of their countries killed over a few square miles of rock.
It is bad that the only thing most people in the US or Great Britain know about Argentina is the Malvinas war. Prior to that it was Juan Peron and Evita or the hiding of Nazi war criminals or the tango. What little I can say in our defense is that overly simplified views of other countries and peoples are not the sole province of the USA.
I refer you to the New York Post as a daily. Our national weekly supermarket tabloids are every bit as idiotic as the worst of yours.
See, you’re confusing two completely different issues. Allow me to clarify the point for you:
Issue 1 - the number of England fans who would be pleased if Batistuta broke his foot and was therefore out of the World Cup
Issue 2 - the reputation of England fans abroad
As regards Batistuta, I still maintain that very few England fans would want to see him out of the World Cup. Even the mindless ones who cause trouble usually also like to watch the best game of football possible (before they go on their drunken rampage).
As regards why a minority of fans cause trouble, this is a complicated question. It’s probably due to a combination of factors including:
-
the working class roots of football
-
the fact that some young males seem to actually enjoy fighting each other
-
the nature of team sports which creates a kind of “us v them” mentality
-
the ubiquitous presence of alcohol
People can be very sheep-like. They tend to herd together with people who they consider to be “their people”. This is true of religions, countries, towns and football teams. So if you’ve got (for eg) Leeds playing a London team. The Leeds fans consider themselves as part of one clan and the London fans consider themselves as part of another clan. This effect is multiplied when you have England playing another country.
England’s reputation may be worse than other countries but then football has a different history in England than it has in other countries (maybe in other countries the working class connection isn’t so strong) so it’s hard to make any meaningful comparisons. I would say football is the opium of the people, not religion (fuck you, Marx).
Personally, I don’t really care about the World Cup. Being a United fan, I’m more pissed off at the fact that Beckham is out of the United team for the rest of the European games. But then it’s lucky we’ve got Veron to take over.
Now, where does Veron come from again…?
Wouldn’t we? We have cable TV “news” channels and radio talk shows especially for idiots, as well as the entire Rupert Murdoch newspaper chain. He’s over here now, ya know, doing for us what he did for you poor blighters. He even took out US citizenship (specially expedited) so he could legally buy Fox.
I’m enjoying this thread - mindless partisanship and whining are part of what makes sports fandom so much fun !