Let’s say it’s wartime and you’re in the service on active duty. Moreover, you happen to be in the possession of highly sensitive information. If the enemy learns what you know, at a minimum they will be able to kill a lot more of your buddies than they would otherwise, and quite possibly they’ll be able to win the war. And the information isn’t something that your side will be able to neutralize once your being imprisoned is known; it’s something like, “This is the weakness of the cloaking tech we use to hide our submarines.”
Knowing all this, you somehow find yourself in a situation in which you’re captured anyway. It’s commonly believed that the enemy tortures its captives; it’s also known that they’ll simply try to bribe people into turning traitor, and honor the terms of said bribery. You have a final friend–that is, a suicide pill, a posion to which there is no known antidote and which will kill you in less than two minutes after ingestion. Your captors don’t know about–yet. And your hands are free enough so that you can get to it.
Do you
Off yourself immediately
Gamble that you’ll be find an opportunity to escape, or be rescued, and hold the final friend in reserve;
Gamble thatyou’ll be able to resist the torture, as you are nearly as tough as Chuck Norris?
Say, "Hey, I happen to know how to defeat our subs’ cloaking tech, and in exchange for several million dollars, a small villa staffed by horny blondes (or blonds), and of course no electrodes being applied to my genitals, I’ll be happy to share it; (aka, the “Treason” option); or
Something else I didn’t think of because I was distracted by silly, silly work?
Why do you choose as you do?
ETA: Mr. Excellent responded before I could at the bit about treason in number 4.
It depends. I’d be likely to accept the bribe if I figured the opposite side wasn’t all that bad. A lot of wars aren’t against a state that is comprised of monsters. If they were committing genocide or otherwise were Really Quite Bad, I’d like to think I’d have the stones to off myself. I know I’d give it a go to withstand torture if I couldn’t, but I figure it’s pretty likely I’d give in sooner or later.
I’d take option #1, possibly #2. #3 is a non issue to me; no one resists torture. The problem with #4 is that by engaging in torture they prove themselves to be evil; I’d be more likely to turn traitor if they didn’t torture. Especially if MY side DID torture and their didn’t. Assuming that I’d even regard it as being treason, and not loyalty to a higher cause than nationalism - I’m perfectly willing to see my country lose a war if we are the one in the wrong.
My motive, by the way is to avoid suffering and not to avoid giving up the secret, since it’s unlikely that they’ll be able to figure out the real secret from the flood of false information torture will give them, from me and others.
Stones? Stones? And I have a quick and easy pill? Puh-lease. I thought you were going to ask about razor blades or chugging Drano. The mentally normal are such wusses.
Then again, I’ve had kidney stones, which are supposed to be the worst pain there is, and I didn’t think it was all that bad. I might just say, “Ha! I laugh at Room 101!”
(bolding mine)
I must admit that I’m surprised to see you in this thread, Der Trihs, as I had thought you would look at it and say, “I’m never serving in the military, so the whole premise doesn’t apply to me.” That said, I see a contradiction between the two clauses I bolded. The practical (as opposed to ethical) problem with torture is that persons subjected to extreme pain will do virtually anything to escape from it. If they have genuine information, they’ll give it up; if they lack genuine information, they’ll make up lies, if only to stop the torture for a brief time. Since you KNOW you have genuinely useful and sensitive information, it is illogical to think that you won’t give up useful info to your captives, if they torture you. Assuming you’ll have the will and presence of mind to initially give false and unuseful info after they’ve broken your thumbs or whatnot is to say that torture may not, in fact, work.
I started to add an addendum saying “what if your only option was to cut your throat with a jagged rock you found on the floor of the transport truck,” then decided that was silly.
I don’t killing yourself would be an example of having stones. It might be the sensible option, but it’s no braver than any of the others. It’s a way of avoiding pain for yourself and possibly pain for others - nothing wrong with making that decision, but I wouldn’t call it brave.
As to what I’d do - probably option 2. It would take quite a lot to persuade me that this really was it and there was no other option. No way could I resist torture indefinitely - though, whether I’d give useful information would be another matter. (I’m reminded of Chunk in the Goonies. :D) However, I’m certain I could resist some pain or other horribleness. When the pain, or whatever, became too much, then that suicide pill is there to get me out of it.
Course, this presumes that my captors won’t find the suicide pill and take option 2 off me, which is a pretty big assumption really.
I could in theory be drafted. Besides, this is all hypothetical.
“True” is not the same as “useful”. If they are torturing hundred or thousands of captured soldiers, they’ll have thousands or millions of torture induced lies to sift though to find the one true confession. As I’ve pointed out in other torture threads, professional interrogators long ago gave up on torture as an interrogation technique, simple because it’s an awful technique. An interrogator who DIDN’T use torture would be far more likely to get the secret than a legion of those who do.
You will say whatever you think will make the torture stop, which may or may not true. Especially if they keep torturing you after they get the true information and don’t believe it.
Suicide pill. If they torture, they’re not the kind of people I want winning the war against my people. I probably would spill if I stayed captive too long (I’m a very trusting person), and I could never live with myself if I took the bribe.
Reminds me of that scene in Team America where Spottswoode says something like “… and if you get captured, you know what to do.” And then hands him a hammer. :o
In the sequel to Papillon, Henri charriere describes South American indigenous prisoners opening up the arteries in their wrists with their own teeth, now that’s stones.
Easy, the pill, right away. But I’m a depressive. A cowardly one, but it is only two minutes of pain that I can’t back out of once swallowed it would be really easy, not against the law and I could be assured that my family would remember me as a hero, rather than the rather pedestrian jack ass that I am. Now if I had to strangle myself by hanging, I might not be able to do it.
The pill, or treason depending on my captors. If the US finally pisses off Germany and France enough that they gang us with Australia, Britain, and Canada, I’m not going to mind giving up the Secret Cloaking technology, but if it’s Russia, China, or pretty much any Middle Eastern country, then no way.
If your hands are that free then they are free enough to put around the throat of an enemy. I call this the 'Death by cop option". At least pave your way into Valhalla properly.
There is a problem with the poison pill. If the enemy hasn’t found your poison pill, then if means that anyone else who was caught before you hasn’t used their pill. Also, if you use it then every other person captured after you will have theirs taken away immediately. Is protecting the information you know worth more than those who come after?
More importantly, what are you doing wandering around where the enemy can capture you with such important information (sub cloaking technology) in the first place?
Unless the poison pill is a false tooth or somesuch. Then they can’t see you use it.
Anyway, it’s generally assumed that you’ll have a moment or two to use the pill before you get captured. I doubt any evil captors would miss something like that in a search.
