BTW, I liked what Polycarp suggested.
** The second link works just fine for me. I don’t know what your problem is.
** It’s virtually impossible to reach such a conclusion about individuals. That’s why statisticians study groups, not individuals. Statistically, professional painters have much higher rates of alcoholism. It’s not a stereotype, it’s an occupational hazard.
Okay, I see the problem now. You’re an idiot.
Go back and read my original post. Look carefully. Where in that post did I actually insult painters? Where did I state, suggest, or imply that they’re all worthless drunks (which I can only presume you think I’m claiming)?
I was gently mocking the OPoster for being so annoyed about the toxic fumes from welding while being in a job known for significant chemical exposure. Welding nowadays damages the lungs instead of the brain, but painting damages the nervous system itself.
May I deduce from your posts that you do a lot of painting in small, poorly-ventilated areas?
Take the chip off your shoulder, disengage your cranium from whatever orifice it’s lodged in, and go take your medication. You’ll feel a lot better.
And how is this NOT meant to be be taken as insulting?
And, if you would actually read my previous posts (I used very small and easily understood words for you), you would see that I don’t inhale toxic fumes. I use the proper precautions, as any intelligent, well informed person would.
You, however, are not well informed about painters. That shows up in your thick headedness and generally boorish behavior.
Now, go ask your mommy why you have no friends. Go on!
I live in a college town. Quite a few students take jobs painting professionally. Guess how many of them wear protection that actually blocks the solvents used in paints?
Guess how many painters I’ve ever seen wearing masks that did more than screen out dust and particulate matter?
Guess how much your posts have demonstrated my point that quite a few painters have some screws loose?
Chemists have more health problems, higher rates of cancer and reproductive problems, and die earlier. Painters are unusually likely to become alcoholics, die earlier, and some show signs of cognitive impairment due to their exposure.
It’s reality. Deal with it.
[twip]
Well, I got to hand it to you, you don’t back down.
But, you still haven’t proven your point.
Guess how many of your posts underscore my already low opinion of you?
As for what you’ve seen about masks and not respirators, maybe that’s true where you live. (Or more likely in the small number of sadly ill-informed temp jobbers that you happen to have seen.) But, it isn’t the industry standard. How do I know? I’m in the industry. Deal with that.
However, I will not succumb to my desire to denigrate you any longer. I tire easily of such sportless combat. 
The link works for me, but the part where it says that many painters, hairstylists, etc. become alcoholics doesn’t - unlike just about all the other statements on the page - have any cites to back it up. So, not terribly useful.
Try looking for information on “Chronic Painter’s Syndrome”.
This site has a brief discussion of it: PDF discussion of white-matter damage
In all fairness, it should be admitted that it’s difficult to establish a precise link between occupational exposure and brain damage, although similar relationships between occupational exposure and spontaneous abortion / infertility in women have been found.
It’s not difficult to find information showing that solvent fumes act in a manner similar to alcohol and that abuse of solvents is related to alcoholism.
Question: if everyone at this work site is wearing protective gear because of the solvent fumes, why should the welding fumes be of concern?
As I mentioned in an earlier post, we’re using a latex product which does not excrete toxic fumes, so no Personal Protective Equipment would be necessary if not for the welders (who, incidentally, use no PPE whatsover to protect themselves, aside from their welding masks, so they don’t understand why we’re so cranky).
That said, I’m with NCB in agreeing that I’ve not seen alcohol problems in my 10 years in the painting industry. I did, however, meet some messed up people in both the asbestos abatement industry and the roofing industry. So your cites, which have no definitive evidence anyway, are bullshit. Perhaps you should stick to commenting on subjects on which you are better versed, muttonhead.
TVAA, I wouldn’t say it’s fairly common knowledge. I’m pretty knowledgeable about a wide variety of things (due to a voracious appetite for the printed word), and I’ve never heard of it. I knew that painters often get burned out on solvents, and become very sensitized to them, but I didn’t know that they became alcoholics.
Looking up a site for toxic encephelopathy (chronic painter’s syndrome), it seems that memory loss and possibly even diabetes can be attributed to long-term solvent exposure, but alcoholism and stupidity were not. The doctors weren’t even all on board with the brain damage theory.
News Update: Just got home from a short day at work because the bastard welders did nothing on the weekend to catch up and next to nothing today. As a result we painters, as well as the electricians and plumbers, have run out of things to do and the contractor is screaming for the heads of the welding crew on silver platters. We won’t be back tomorrow, and probably not Wednesday either, so those slack-asses might be costing me two day’s pay, should my boss not be able to find another job site that needs extra men.
Piss me off.
Toxic encephelopathy is extremely similar to the conditions triggered by long-term alcohol abuse.
Ever hear of Korsakoff’s Syndrome?
There are similar conditions that were once found among doctors and nurses who worked in areas laced with anesthetic gases.
Try looking up the neurocognitive effects of solvent abuse – they’re similar to many of the effects of alcohol abuse.
Toxic encephelopathy being very similar to long-term alcohol abuse does not make all painters alcoholics. Diabetics suffering from low blood glucose , stroke victims, and Huntington’s Chorea sufferers may all resemble alcoholics at times, but no one in their right mind would associate any of these conditions with the sufferers being alcoholics.
I’m still not getting what you’re trying to say - are you simply saying that chronic painter’s syndrome may mimic alcoholism, or are you still insisting that painters are virtually interchangeable with alcoholics?
No, not exactly.
First approximation: I was pointing out that there are a number of negative effects associated with long-term exposure to organic solvents such as those used in paint. The general effects of these chemicals (when used as inhalants) are similar to those of alcohol. There’s a long-standing suspicion that the higher-than-normal rates of alcoholism among professional painters is due to solvent exposure. The subtle cognitive impairments that some research suggests occur more frequently among painters may be due to the same thing.
Full approximation: I was making fun of the OPer for being so concerned about the toxic fumes from the welding while he was in a job characterized by toxic fumes.
I’ve never insisted that painters are virtually interchangeable with alcoholics. Check my first post to this thread.
(It may also help if you consider where the phrase “Good news, everyone!” is from.)
Sounds like misused humor to me, especially given the real circumstances. Anyone else?
Yup, pretty much, Joe K. The painters in this thread didn’t seem to find it particularly funny.
See, first you said
Then, when called on it
But you eventually say this
So you go from many painters are to there is a suspicion of higher than normal rates (which you still have no cites for).
I suspect that your mother walks on all fours and shits outdoors, but that doesn’t make it true.
Hey, I just realized that the title of this thread could apply to TVAA too! How’s that for serendipity?
** Oh, there certainly are exceptionally high rates of alcoholism among painters. The problem is that some people contest the idea that it’s due to solvent exposure.
It could be that people who become painters are more likely to be drunks – but wouldn’t that be even more insulting to the painters in this thread?
Bravo, featherlou! I see the other shoe finally dropped! You are a true master of the obvious.
[sigh]
(Well, this is about what I expected from a Pit thread…)
Yeah, well, it’s better than being master of the baiters.
News for Tuesday: Still using toxic-fumes-free latex paint today on an exterior job that my boss dredged up for us. Going back to the basement tomorrow (the welders apparently did some actual work today, so we’ve got something to do again). Still not an alcoholic, after ten years of painting as a career.