I so doubt it. They simply take the whole of the education costs and divide by the number of students to get that figure. But many education costs are fixed and won’t jump incrementally…i.e. my two kids being enrolled at the corner elementary will not automatically cause the school’s operating costs to increase by $12,000.
Not even close. Local Pre-K here is 2.5 hours a day, same as Kindergarten. It’s great, if you work 10 hours a week with no commute…
That’s not what I’m saying at all.
The implication is, “You get to go do shit for your kids; I should get to do shit for my friends and hubby.”
I’m saying a lot of the time parents don’t GET to do shit WITH their kids…they HAVE to do shit FOR their kids. You don’t schedule strep. You don’t schedule vomiting. You don’t schedule ear infections. For things like this, the parent doesn’t exactly have the option of saying, “Oh, I can stay for a couple more hours before I do that.” They can’t say, “Well damn…I’ll call Suzie and tell her I’ll be a little bit later than I thought picking her up from the school clinic.”
As a note: I don’t think anyone in this entire thread has said - EVEN ONCE - that parents should get to leave early for voluntary activities. I can’t recall having seen anyone argue for the parent’s right to get out of work for recitals, practices, or any of that. So…that is not remotely what I’m talking about.
When I said “for the children,” I didn’t mean “vaguely not-really-justified hyperbole for the purpose of strengthening gun control/TV programming laws/public decency statutes.” I meant “for the kid Mary in Accounting has puking all over the clinic’s only sink, and damn, either get your kid or send an exorcist, but she can’t stay here.”
Good point about the non-voluntary nature of a lot of parental leave. And kids do get sick a lot more often than adults do, as a general rule.
Overall, parents of whatever color, income or national income, perform a community service by raising the next generation of citizens. They may not be doing it for that reason, but there’s no doubt that it is good to have a next generation around to carry things on. This is the basis of some of the benefits that accrue to parents.
The real problem is that nowadays, with both spouses working in most families, daytime child care is hard to come by. I’ve yet to hear a proposed solution to this problme that made much in the way of sense.
What about the second spouse working to PAY for the day care?
Such guff.
I have never ever, ever, ever met anyone who decided to reproduce so that the human race would not become extinct.
Which parent here, apart from Evil Captor, is so philanthropic and altruistic and selfless as to have decided to become a parent for the future of mankind?
And by the way, StarvingButStrong, I agree with what has been said here, you are being taken for a ride. If you don’t like it; complain, rip the bosses off too, or leave the company.
HUGE standing ovation for CrazyCatLady!!!
I couldn’t agree more… if my mother had shown up at a tee-ball practice or band practice I would have wondered what the hell she was doing there… as in “can I have ONE hour of time when you’re not watching over me!” It certainly wouldn’t have made me think she was a better parent than all the others for doing that.
And if my dad had had to work on or around a holiday, sure I would have been sad, but I would have understood in the sense that I was very aware that dad worked very hard to keep the roof over my head and the food on my plate. It definitely wouldn’t have been the super-traumatic life-scarring event that some parents believe it would be. Kids are much more resiliant than we give them credit for, especially these days when it seems parents just subtract “have a life of my own” from their existance so they can hang out at tee-ball practice and be heroes to their 3 1/2 year old.
oh, for heaven’s sake. For the last time, NOBODY IN THIS THREAD IS SAYING YOU SHOULDN’T LEAVE FOR EMERGENCIES. Vomiting is an emergency, in the sense that you have to go pick the kid up right then. Nobody’s going to begrudge you the time to pick up a puking kid unless your kid pukes twice a week and you never make the time up. Strep and ear infections, however, should be seen by a doctor the next day but aren’t gotta-get-em-right-now situations (unless your ped. can work you in that afternoon.) Generally, you have at least a couple of hour’s notice before a doctor’s appointment, during which time you can start making arrangements to make that time up.
The situation the OP is talking about, however, doesn’t just include unexpected stuff like barfing at school or doctor’s appointments. She’s also talking about leaving for recitals and plays and never scheduling make-up time. And that is just horseshit. Leave for anything you want, if you can swing it, but make sure you find a better way to make sure your work is done without dumping on everyone else with no reciprocation.
I think SBS should get a Little Brother or a Little Sister. Or a dog.
Then she could engage in a little payback:
“I’ve got to leave work early because Skippy has a vet appointment.”
“My Little Bro/Sis is having a piano recital this afternoon, so I’ll be out of the office from 2-4. If it runs late, which it probably will, I won’t be back into the office until tomorrow.”
Or better yet … just pretend to get a Little Bro/Sis or dog … then skip out and go to the pool one afternoon a week or so!
Let me know how this works out … 
It’s that “just.” As I said - if you’ll go back and read - I don’t think anyone in this entire thread is arguing that parents leaving for recitals and practices and shit is a Good or Proper Idea. The OP did not just mention non-urgent work absences. The OP also mentioned:
THOSE are the points in the OP with which I - and every other voice of dissent in this thread - are taking issue.
I mean fuck, if you read more carefully, I think you might find that you and I are in agreement on several points. However, I think the people who are advising the OP to get a pet or lie for the purpose of spending an afternoon at the pool or the movies to “get back” at the parents who are leaving to take care of a sick child are in dire need of some lessons in compassion. Stunningly, no one’s calling them on it. Well, until now, I guess.
(As a side note, there are obviously far larger problems at work if you have to deal with a kid who has punched out another kid; notwithstanding, though, the school should not be expected to babysit the violent little schmuck for the rest of the day and then put him on the friggin’ bus.)
I don’t think parents, or anyone who has to leave work for a good reason, should have to “make the time up.” That’s the point of “leave.” They should get their work done, definitely. Who doesn’t do that? When I’m sick, I get sick leave, but I still find a way to complete my reports and pull my weight. I don’t do an hour-for-hour makeup session. The point of sick leave is that I can be trusted to do that without having to schedule additional hours in the office to make up for the time out. No one I know in a salaried position with paid leave makes time up for their paid vacation or sick leave.
As for sickness generally, the Harvard School of Public Health found that kids with both acute and minor illnesses get better faster when their parents are with them to them. You might think that parents should only stay home for vomiting, but research says otherwise. They also found that working parents who are allowed paid sick leave for child illness are 5 times more likely to stay home with their children. The best way to keep kids healthy is to (a) let their parents tend to them when ill and (b) make sure workplaces facilitate that practice for working parents.
Parents and management can and should work together to make sure that other employees don’t get fucked in the process. I wholeheartedly support that. But I don’t think we should let the disgruntlement of workers who think parental leave is “unfair” determine what leave policies should be. Good sense and informed decision-making should do that.
I’m not talking about taking sick days off, I’m talking about leaving to pick someone up. A kid pukes, the school tells you to come get them. No ifs, ands, or buts. Strep or ear infections, however, aren’t like that. The kid won’t feel all that great, but they probably didn’t feel all that great when they were bundled off to school that morning. Unless they’re spiking a dangerously high fever, an ear infection is not an emergency.
I’m also not talking about hour-for-hour make-up time. I’m talking about pulling your own weight. If you bloody well know that Katie has an appointment on Tuesday, you should already be planning to do some extra work at another time. If you can get that same amount of work done in less time, more power to you. Same thing for unexpected stuff. Go do what you need to do, but don’t leave everybody else in the lurch.
I’m also amenable to people using up their own sick time to stay home with their kids. It’s your sick time, do whatever you want with it. Stay home with a kid, play hooky, save it up and cash it in, whatever. But paid leave is a benefit, not a God-given right, and it’s unfair to give parents increased benefits for the same job, just because they’re parents. That’s why people get so pissed about this subject.
Well, in my situation (as a casual employee) if I take time-off for sick kids I DON’T GET PAID. I suspect that the numbers of people able to access paid leave is far outnumbered by those who bear the financial burden themselves.
Is anybody able to direct me to a source that can breakdown the numbers of parents who are able to get unlimited PAID leave?
I’m not sure about getting involved in the meat of this thread, I don’t know where to start. But I have to comment on this, hijack though it may be.
I respect that you work in the medical profession and therefore probably have wider experience in this than I. But. Speaking as someone who has gotten ear infections (and strep throat, for that matter) in the past couple of years, I have no clue how you expect a kid to stick it out for a day. I, at 20, could not stick it out for more than two hours without antibiotics when my ear infection got in full swing.
Originally posted by CrazyCatLady
Strep and ear infections, however, should be seen by a doctor the next day but aren’t gotta-get-em-right-now situations (unless your ped. can work you in that afternoon.)
Au contraire. My daycare will have you pick up your child up immediately, and they can’t come back until they’ve been on antibiotics for 24 hours. They cannot be in daycare running a fever (both strep and ear infections usually include a fever).
I realize my viewpoint is coming at this situation from a different angle, but where I work the childless people have a much easier time than I do.
We don’t have a specified sick-leave policy; if you’re sick, you take time off. If it gets to be excessive, you’ll be asked for doctor’s notes and stuff like that.
I rarely get sick. However, our 11-month-old has had a succession of ear infections for six months now. Each time, he begins to run a slight fever. The daycare won’t keep him if he has a fever (as has been noted earlier in the thread), so I have to go get him. I’ve had him in my office, sleeping in his carrier; I’ve taken him to the doctor; I’ve taken vacation time to be with him.
My boss, who in the previous three years I’ve been here didn’t say one word about my practice of arriving early and occasionally staying late to get work done, now feels the need to point out every single time I’m not in the office. “Decide to come to work for a little while today?” “Oh, are you here today?” “I haven’t seen you in so long, I’ve forgotten what you look like.”
Well, hell. I guess making sure all my work is done isn’t enough. I guess arriving early and/or staying late isn’t enough. I guess being out of the office briefly one day in a month is excessive. No, if I have to leave the office for an hour to go get my child, I’m somehow bringing Western civilization to its knees.
I have no vacation time left until June. I am afraid to take sick time when I am actually sick, for fear that I will be reprimanded. I have come to the office with a fever of 102 degrees rather than call in sick.
The kicker is that others in my office who don’t have children (or don’t have children who aren’t grown) are out sick more often than I, even factoring in my trips to get my child. A couple of people have been sick for nine work days straight. Now, I’m not faulting them for that – there has been a particularly nasty strain of the flu going around. But nothing negative is said to them. “Hey, Workerbee, good to have you back. We really missed you around here. Hope you’re feeling better.” It angers me.
Having said all that, the OP is clearly being taken advantage of. Voluntary parent-type activities should require the use of vacation time or personal leave or whatever. I would recommend talking with management about this.
[OT]
Sauron,
Tubes. My daughter was the same way. 6 ear infections in six months. We put tubes in her ears and - I can’t say she never had another ear infection, but it was much better (2 in the next year, then the tubes fell out, but she’d outgrown the constant ear infection).
Ear infections affect balance and hearing. Since at eleven months walking and talking tend to be big priorities for kids, we felt it was best for her, as well as our jobs.
[/OT]
Yeah, I’ve pushed tubes since October. The doctor, though, keeps saying that the little one isn’t a strong candidate for tubes – his ears clear up with the administration of antibiotics. He just tends to get colds a lot, and the drainage causes ear infections.
Parents who play the system make me sick. They can take off to take/pick up little Suzy to/from the after-school activity du jour, to watch their precious darling’s attempts to play a musical instrument*, or hover over their every breath because the widdle um has a widdle headache. Yet when I was in the hospital with a serious blood problem, my dad couldn’t take time off. He was able to take me to the hospital probably about six times over eight years because he had to work. It’s a good thing my mom became a SAHM because otherwise my treatments would have been more of a burden than they already were. Of course, this was coming out of the Horrible Overworked 80s, so he must have been a horrible parent (except he wasn’t). The pendulum, she is swinging too far in the other direction.
*Don’t jump all over me, I used to be one of those kids.
That’s nice to know FCM, thanks for the update, I HAD read this back in the late 80s and wasn’t sure if it was still up to date.
And to southern, sorry if I wasn’t clear, my post was mainly a semi silly attempt to make you feel a wee bit better about daycare tax.
SBS, I have a question. Do you get paid salary? The same amount no matter how many hours you work? And is it the same for the parents who get time off?
Even if you get paid overtime, if you are being “forced” into it due to unfair work practices, you may have recourse through your state labor dept.
If you can’t get some satisfaction from your bosses, you may want to check into your state labor laws. You might have some support there.