You're the ones who CHOSE to have children

The BBQ Pit
81

At the risk of sleeping on the couch tonight, I’ll side against my wife on at least one issue–kids with suspected strep should be seen by a doctor before returning to school, and should be on anitbiotics for 24h before returning. Ear infections are a tougher call–I don’t think there’s a lot of danger of passing them around, but the kid does feel like ass.

I think we’re confusing a few issues here. I don’t fault parents for using their sick time to take care of their sick kids. That’s part of what sick time is for. I do think that parents of small children should make sure they work somewhere where it won’t be a huge burden if they have to duck out from time to time for reasons like that–if they can’t, they should find another job.

The problem is at the other extreme, when some parents feel entitled to take off whenever they like for whatever reason they like so long as it involves their kids. Some people do feel this way, and some employers let them get by with it without any attempt to balance the workload back out.

It’s often even less blatant. In a lot of workplaces, people who ask for time off or to leave early or whatever to do something with their kids are far more likely to get it than someone asking for time off to do something else.

To understand CrazyCatLady’s ire on this subject, you would have to have known the particular parent she is talking about. This person would leave work anytime she felt like it to do anything with her kid. Her son also had all sorts of emotional problems and feigned illness at school all the time, and she would always come pick him up. They also figured out later that many of the times she claimed her son was sick and she had to go get him, she was actually going off to do something else. This is a very, very extreme situation, but it is a very extreme example of a problem that does exist.

Dr. J

82

Sorry, slight hijack.

SBS, what kind of company do you work for that isn’t closed on holidays?

83

I so agree, I’m 40something, and had one only a few years ago.
Excrutiating agony!!! I was home for two days until the antibiotics starting abating the infection (and subsequent pain) somewhat.

I also had another question for the OP, where on earth do you live that the schools, and/or after schools programs schedule all these parent/child activities during “normal” work hours?

(sorry, ignorant Alaskan here again), But in our neck of the woods the coaches all have to work too, so most of our sports etc don’t get started until late afternoon or evening.

Same with plays/recitals etc.

So where are all these schools and activities taking place? And can’t the parents complain to the schools and/or activities coordinators?

84

To clarify: I do get paid for the overtime work, that isn’t the problem. It’s not being able to count on my scheduled ‘after work’ hours being in fact after work that is the problem. There are other things I want to accomplish and enjoy, that I really can’t do now that ‘emergencies’ that require me staying extra hours are cropping up so often.

One example: last fall hubby and I joined a local theater group. This was to be a fun activity for us to share in, and a way to make new friends and spend time with them. I had to miss three of the first five weeks, so we dropped out. It just wasn’t fair to the rest of the group not to be able to depend on our presence for rehearsals.

(I work for a psychiatric hospital, btw, which explains why we don’t run 9-5 hours or shut down for holidays . If anything, holidays are our busiest times.)

85

:smack: Duh! Medical (sorry I was trying to think what kind of business wouldn’t shut down on a holiday, and/or required people to do other people’s work, I’m not with it today).

Well, at any rate, in view of what you’ve said and in addition to Manda Jo’s excellent advice, a trip to your local labor department might be in your best interest. I am not up to date on “lower 48” rules and regs, but I know that that sort of thing wouldn’t be allowed in most decent sized businesses.

Good Luck.

From a single mommy who didn’t “play the system” and whose then 4 year old daughter once asked (when she went with me to pick up my paycheck) “Mommy? Is this where you live”?

(It was a job in a flight kitchen back before I had skills, education and training and the summer hours were heinous. My little girl occasionally (when grandma couldn’t pick her up) even slept on the girls locker room couch after the day care closed down at midnight because of the 16 hour days we often put in). FTR, she’s a lovely well-adjusted 23 year old now, so it doesn’t appear that my hard work ethic harmed her any.

For the parents where you work, my feeling is, if we (those of us who don’t make our co-workers suffer) can do it. So, can they. They need to either change shifts, make the other parent step up to the plate, or find another job if they can’t do that one and do the things they want to do (like plays and little league) as parents too.

86

Here some excerpts from a book on family leave that gives some statistics on who gets paid sick leave to care for parents, children, etc. However, it’s broken down by poor/non-poor.

I am grateful for my job’s leave policies. We also have a program where a home nurse will come stay with your child if you must be at work but your child can’t go to school/daycare. Parents pay for part of it, but it’s subsidized by the University.

87

Oh man, oh man, oh man… where to start?

Taking this one sentence at a time:

  1. Yes. They did. That is precisely what they did. Parents have ALWAYS had the option to put their 4-year old in day care, private pre-school or anything else. Now they have the option to do the same thing, but at someone else’s expense and at substantially increased rates than current market price.

  2. I share the belief. But it’s irrelevent to the discussion. The vote simply says who will pay for these services for the parents that choose to utilize them.

  3. It’s not for the children, it’s for the parents. If it was for the children it wouldn’t be voluntary. Once again – it was decided who would be required to pay for “general” and “voluntary” services that are already available in other forms.

  4. See 3.

  5. The U.S. has nothing to do with this. It’s STATE law.

  6. They’ve always had this option.
    Cranky, we’ve been on the same side of quite a few issues, but clearly we don’t see this one the same way. Maybe I’m just not presenting a very good case.
    kanbuckta

I read your comment as a reference to a “zero-sum game”. “No one gets full benefit, but it evens out” seems to be your message. And is in concert with my claims.

You’re quite right that enrolling your two children won’t increase the school’s operating cost by $12,000. It’s more like $180,000 for the first one and nearly nothing for the second one.

The cost calculation is as you suggest. Divide the cost by the number of students and you get the per-capita cost. And you’re right that adding one student doesn’t increase the overall expenditure by the per-capita cost.

But this is a new program. It will require new facilities, new teachers / babysitters, new infrastructure, etc. To provide this service for the first child in a school district costs about $180,000. Each additional student is nearly free, until the class fills up. Then another $180,000 is required to provide the second classroom followed by 30 more “almost nothings”.

Most schools in this state (and country) are full. Many are over-full. Implementing this policy will require new facilities and a new classroom costs the same whether it will be occupied by 4 year olds or 14 year olds.

My county is currently negotiating the contruction of a new elementary school. They recently completed a new high school at a cost of $160,000,000. Yep – 160 million dollars to house 2000 students. $80,000 upfront cost per student and not the first teacher has been employed yet, no light bill has been paid, no facilities repairs have been billed, etc.

You’re right. Adding your children to the program won’t cost anyone $12,000. If one of them is the FIRST child in the program it will be a whole lot more…
There’s probably an economics class starting soon at your local community college. They will support the basic cost model that I’ve described.

88

Sorry SouthernStyle, that my comments were worded in a confusing way. My fault. By saying “it’s voluntary” and “in the U.S.” in meant that unlike other countries, this is not mandatory and it’s not nationwide, in contrast to what I think might go on in some other countries. I was too fucking lazy to go look it up so I could be more specific with contrasting examples. Of course kids could always be put into such programs by parents, but the economics of that kind of care may prevent some parents from doing it. The question is, if it’s so damn good for kids, why isn’t it codified, sort of like school is? I dunno.

You are probably right that many of these programs/laws came about because voting parents pushed for them, but I believe they have the support they do because they make good sense from the standpoint of “What’s good for children.”

I know that some of the HSPH researchers have specifically mentioned leave policies in their “what to do with this research” follow-ups. This is trying to inform policy with facts. Maybe the HSPH researchers are parents and have a real self-interest, but I’m not so cynical as to believe that’s their only motivation for calling legislative attention to their findings.

89

Just because pre-k is voluntary doesn’t mean that it’s daycare or for the parents. Around here , kindergarten is voluntary for kids with birthdays between July and December (they can just start first grade the year they turn six) and my last year of high school was voluntary (I turned 17 before it started). I don’t think you’d call those two years day care or say they’re for the parents simply because they aren’t mandatory.

And as far as the cost goes, two things. The average cost per student is not the same as the cost per average student. It includes the higher expenses for special ed students, who may be entitled to those services feom the age of two or three years old whether the public schools have pre k or not. It also doesn’t account for the fact that since pre-k classes are usually a half day or less, the same classroom and teacher can be used for two sessions.

90

I have almost the opposite situation from the OP. My job involves presenting cases to an administrative law judge twice a week. Only on those two days would anyone have to cover for me, and only then if I have cases scheduled. If my kid has a play on one of my court days, either I arrange to have no cases scheduled or I don’t go to the play. If I have to make a doctor’s appointment during working hours, I make it on a day no one will have to cover for me. The people we generally end up having to cover for are those without actual children ( their sons and daughter are grown), who seem to have an amazing number of plumbing, car and oil burner problems, and whose elderly parents can’t see their doctor on any other day. I don’t think the OP’s coworkers are acting that way because they’re parents. Parenthood just gives them additional excuses. If they didn’t have kids or their kids were grown, they’d likely be just like my coworkers

91

I’ve actually applied for a job at a company where one of the perqs for working parents is a take-home dinner.

If I get this job, can I borrow one of your kids? :wink:

92

Umm, does everyone get a take-home dinner, or just those with kids? (Is giving it to just parents even legal? It sounds like a lawsuit in the making to me.)

If it helps, we have some pets with human names that I collectively call “the girls.” You could just sort of imply that they’re kids, if you wanted.

93

I think that’s cool. :cool: Companies are more and more including lots of benefits, at varying costs, that mean a lot to their employees.

Whether or not you get the job, how about posting the company’s name once the dust has settled. These guys deserve an “attaboy”.
SS

94

Hah! I have “The Girls”, too! Mine are a labbish mutt and a huskyish mutt. What are yours?

And to be fair, I’m not 100% sure how the take-home dinner thing works. I didn’t get the info from the company’s website, I ran across it on one of those websites that gives you the lowdown on various companies, while I was trying to do some salary research. On this website’s list of the company’s perqs was “a take home dinner package for working parents”, but no other detail was given, so perhaps it’s at a small cost to the parents or something, who knows . . .?

At any rate, I wonder if I could convince them that my SO counts as a kid. I mean, hell, if I should get home late one evening, he might burn the house down trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich! :stuck_out_tongue:

95

At the rate the application process is going, it could be a long, long time, but sure. And if I DO wind up with the job, hell–I’ll let you know what’s included in the dinner package! :wink:

96

I am the ONLY single and childless person in a medical office with 15 female employees. I must say, the women I work with never take advantage of the “child” situations , but I think this is due to the fact that their hubbies pitch in a lot.
An addtional comment-- I worked in a daycare-preschool for 8 years, and parents were always asking staff members to call them at work and tell the person who answered the phone that they needed to speak to the parent “right away” and that they were calling from the daycare. Get it? Then they would tell their bosses their child was ill, and go shopping or whatever. Happened ALL the time.

97

Damn, that’s low. I’m not the least bit surprised, sadly enough, but…damn!

Actually, we caught my aforementioned former cow-orker in a similar stunt. On 9/11, of course, her kid’s after-school stuff was cancelled and she had to go get him. It was a damn bad time to be down a tech (we’d been doing ortho surgeries since 8:30 and weren’t nearly done cutting yet, much less cleaned up and autoclaved out), but no one begrudged her the time. After she’d been gone a while, she called saying that LilDumplin’ was just so upset about the attacks, he wasn’t stable. Could she just take the rest of the afternoon off and take him home?

That didn’t fly, so she brought him back to work with her. The kid can be a real pain in the ass, but nobody really minded under the circumstances. LilDumplin’, oddly enough didn’t seem all that upset. LilDumplin’ was, in fact, dancing around and singing and keeping up his normal barrage of questions and smart-ass comments. Part of LilDumpin’s homework was to write about something interesting he’d done, and Mom suggested he write about coming to the clinic. So he did. Started with them leaving school and getting almost to her boyfriend’s house before calling and having to come back. Then he handed it to me and our other tech to proof read. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a woman’s face that pruned up before or since.

98

Especially if involves dinner AND friends. :smiley:

SS

99

Well, goodness, I didn’t think THAT was what they meant by “package”. :eek: :smiley:

100

I sometimes refer to my breasts as “the girls.” I’m not sure if I can somehow turn this into a way to leave work early, though.

“The girls haven’t been getting enough attention lately. I’d like to leave a little early on Friday.”