Tithes: Net or Gross?

[Pleonast]

In another thread, this came up:

All tithing is off the top. You earned the gross. You give God a portion. The IRS does its thing independent of God and the earner.

Not wanting to hijack that thread, I've started a new one.

Let me summarize the issue. Christians have a duty to give charitable donations. A traditional amount is a tithe, i.e. 10%. The question then arises, 10% of what? The two obvious choices are 10% of total earnings (the gross), or 10% of actual profit (the net).

A related issue is whether all charitable donations (workplace paycheck donations, old clothing donations, community volunteering, etc) in addition to direct-to-church offerings should count toward fulfulling a tithe.

My own opinion is that the specific amount isn't particularly important. I try to give as much as I feel financially comfortable giving. So I guess I lean towards net rather than gross. And I count all charitable givings, not just what goes to a church.

(I started this thinking in Christian terms, but I know Jews and Musliims have similar customs. Their perspectives would be interesting as well.)

[Pleonast]

And this should be in Great Debates...

Can I have a Mod move it please?

[Baker]

If one is giving away what one no longer wants or needs,(clothing, furniture, etc) it counts for the IRS, but, IMHO, not for a tithe. If one buys those same items with the idea to give them to an organization that distributes them to those who need them, then I feel it would count towards the tithe.

And tithe, to me, means, 10% of the gross. I count all donations as part of that 10%, not just what I give to my church.

I'm not required by my church to tithe, but I'm glad I can.

[Shodan]

I have been asked this question as head of my stewardship committee at church. The correct answer is "whatever the Lord leads you to do".

I tithe on my net, on the theory that taxes and so forth get taken out of my check before I get it, and thus I never get control over that amount. I do receive the net, so I am "rendering unto Caesar" as well as to God. Plus a good deal of government spending goes to semi-charitable stuff anyway.

And I also like to remind people that tithing time is as valid as money - sometimes more so.

Just keep in mind the story of the widow's mite.

Tithing is a good thing. "Well done, you good and faithful servant! You have been faithful over little; I will make you steward over much. Come and share in your master's happiness!" - Matthew 25:21

Regards,
Shodan

[MEBuckner]

Moderator's Note: Sure, I'll move it... For a small fee, of course, say 10%....


Moving thread from Cafe Society to Great Debates.

[Taran]

<Reverend Lovejoy, paraphrased>
Donations were sparse, so we're going to be passing the collection plate around a second time. Remember, tithe is ten percent of gross, not net. Don't force us to audit!
</RL,p>

Seriously though, while IANAMormon I've always tithed 10% of gross income.

[Cardinal]

When I was young and stuck up, I was sure it was on the gross. I remember being pretty scornful of the idea of tithing on the net.

I have no idea what I was thinking. Literally. I can not remember my scintillating argument for tithing on the net being a dodge. That shows how powerful an arguement it was, I guess.

I think Shodan's answer is the most correct. Personally, I've decided that the Lord didn't increase my wealth with the amount taken in taxes. That's no a failing on His part, it's just a fact. I feel pretty comfortable with that decision.

[AbbySthrnAccent]

Originally Posted by Pleonast

The question then arises, 10% of what?

For LDS members, that is determined by the individual member for him or herself. Church policy specifically states that no one in the Church has any authority to interpret this revelation for another person. It is up to the individual to declare whether they are paying a full tithe or not.

The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ‘one tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this. (First Presidency letter, 19 March 1970.)

[dangermom]

As Abby says, for Mormons it's a personal issue. AFAIK, some pay gross, some pay net, and it's really nobody else's business what someone decides to do. It's between you and the Lord, same as a bunch of other stuff.

[Abbie Carmichael]

Technically Christians are supposed to give as the Spirit tells them to give, there's no rule that says we to "tithe." I daresay it's harder for most Christians to actually be led by the Spirit with their giving, and it's easier to give a flat 10%. The Spirit will challenge you, surprise you, ask you for offerings that hurt your flesh. 10% of your gross with every paycheck is a constant and not as difficult.

But since we're talking about the tithe, the book makes it clear it's the gross.

6 "A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?" says the LORD Almighty. "It is you, O priests, who show contempt for my name.
"But you ask, 'How have we shown contempt for your name?'
7 "You place defiled food on my altar.
"But you ask, 'How have we defiled you?'
"By saying that the LORD's table is contemptible. 8 When you bring blind animals for sacrifice, is that not wrong? When you sacrifice crippled or diseased animals, is that not wrong? Try offering them to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you?" says the LORD Almighty.(Malachi 1:6-8)

In other words, you'll pay the government whatever they TELL you to pay them, and you'll do it by April 15th, and chances are you're overall giving a good 20 or 30% of your income. But now when it comes to giving to God, you want to cut a deal and give Him what you want Him to have, not what He's asked for. Your gross income is what you report when you go to get a car loan, buy a house, do your taxes, etc., and yet people get "confused" when it comes to giving God His share. Which is funny to me because Uncle Sam wastes your money. God promises to give it back pressed down, shaken together and running over and bless your descendants to the 4th generation, all for the low low price of 10%. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

He wants 10%, all of it, thus why He said "bring the whole tithe." Not half, not 10% of whatever you had left over after you reverenced the government, your bank, your 401k, etc.

Some people just flat don't know this, and so if they haven't been taught I don't think God holds it against them. But if you are going to commit to tithing regularly, hell or high water, it's 10% of the gross.

[FriarTed]

I tithe at least on the net absent some emergency expenditures (there is a Biblical principle that exempts "what the worms & locusts have eaten" from tithes- I don't think a necessary emergency car or house repair is far from that). I have the goal of tithing on the gross. Sometimes I make it *S*

One rather pithy answer to the OP- "depends on if you want God to give you a net or gross blessing."

[Northern Piper]

I like Friar Ted's "worms and locusts" approach to taxes, but I have a question for those who tithe on the net - if you get a tax refund, do you tithe from it as well?

[Cardinal]

if you get a tax refund, do you tithe from it as well?

That's a decent point, and to be consistent, you would have to tithe from the refund too.

In other words, you'll pay the government whatever they TELL you to pay them, and you'll do it by April 15th, and chances are you're overall giving a good 20 or 30% of your income. But now when it comes to giving to God, you want to cut a deal and give Him what you want Him to have, not what He's asked for.

I still don't see where he's made a definitive statement on this. Mind you, I'm not being snotty, and I'm all for clear thinking, but I also have a problem with people putting words in God's mouth. I don't see that your Bible quote shows the argument for the gross. The quoted passage is about giving the Lord something that's worth less than its purported value. The question of taxes isn't brought up.

Your gross income is what you report when you go to get a car loan, buy a house, do your taxes, etc., and yet people get "confused" when it comes to giving God His share. Which is funny to me because Uncle Sam wastes your money.

Well, I wouldn't say I'm confused. I can easily see people being led to tithe on the gross. I can also see very easily the argument that my taxes never even got in my hand. Not only did I have to pay them, they were never paid to me in any real sense at all, but got directly withheld by the government.

God promises to give it back pressed down, shaken together and running over and bless your descendants to the 4th generation, all for the low low price of 10%. Pretty good deal if you ask me.

Yes, but that argument could then be extended to saying that any greater amount is more Godly than any lesser amount. Now, I've read stories of people being led to do any manner of crazy things, and I'm on record as being down with the Lord being able to tell anyone to do pretty much anything. I mean, read Ezekiel sometime. That was some wack stuff.

He wants 10%, all of it, thus why He said "bring the whole tithe." Not half, not 10% of whatever you had left over after you reverenced the government, your bank, your 401k, etc.

I didn't put in any of the investments you mentioned. I'm just looking for an admission that it is very arguable that your house was not increased by the amount held out for taxes.

Some people just flat don't know this, and so if they haven't been taught I don't think God holds it against them. But if you are going to commit to tithing regularly, hell or high water, it's 10% of the gross.

Well, that's the kind of dogmatic statemtent I expect to see backed up by something rock solid from the Bible. I haven't seen it yet. I mean, even abortion has a lot more solid quotes and principals behind it than this one.

(And if anyone wants to go off on abortion, start a new thread)

[Abbie Carmichael]

I can also see very easily the argument that my taxes never even got in my hand. Not only did I have to pay them, they were never paid to me in any real sense at all, but got directly withheld by the government.

I see your side of it, because I thought the same thing for years.

Those who actually pay taxes here in the US have a hard time doing it (at least some of them). Instead of getting slammed every April, they have their employer withhold the most taxes possible from their paycheck year-round. The result is they have a more manageable fee to pay on tax day than they otherwise would.

They never "see" the taxes withheld, true, but that doesn't mean they didn't *earn* that money.

If I hire you and pay you $10 an hour to make widgets, you're gonna make $400 a week at my factory. Let's pretend you only SEE $300 of that, though, after taxes.

Does that mean you're actually getting paid $7.50 an hour? No. You're getting paid $10 an hour, so why would you want to tithe off of leftovers?

I have to go for now but later I'll try to post where the book says 10%. (The word "tithe" means "tenth" so I'm not sure why I have to do this, but I'll look it up anyway.)

[Mangetout]

My church teaches tithing on the gross; dunno how many people actually do that though. In the UK, registered charities can reclaim the income tax on donations, so the giver may only need to tithe net.

[kellner]

Here it is 9% of your income tax (which is higher than in the US) with certain deductions per child, but it is a real tax. Nobody will ask you and it is automatically collected from all members of certain denominations, without exceptions.

As a consequence the collect is mostly symbolic.

(I'm a Roman Catholic)

[Pleonast]

When I served on the Stewardship Committee of my church, we side-stepped the whole gross or net issue, by encouraging people to pledge to give 10% more than what they gave last year. The pledge drive worked quite well.

One family I know, instead of tithing on their income, tithe on their consumption. They keep receipts of everything they spend, and at the end of each month make donations equal to 10% of their outgo. An interesting variation.

[Pleonast]

Re-reading likely chapters (Lev 27, Num 18, Deut 12,14, Mal 3), I can see no obvious biblical support for either tithing the net or the gross. No mention of how taxes or other external obligations affect tithing. There seems to be an implicit assumption that no other taxes are being paid at all. (That's just my interpretation, since it seems like the tithes are the taxes.)

[theR]

What happens if you don't tithe? What happens if you aren't happy with the way the church is spending your money? For instance, they are spending too much on remodeling the church instead of charitable acts towards the community?

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by kellner

Here it is 9% of your income tax (which is higher than in the US) with certain deductions per child, but it is a real tax. Nobody will ask you and it is automatically collected from all members of certain denominations, without exceptions.

As a consequence the collect is mostly symbolic.

(I'm a Roman Catholic)

Could you explain this a bit more? It sounds like you're saying the government collects your religious tithe along with your income tax, which sounds sort of - I must be reading it wrong.

[kellner]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Could you explain this a bit more? It sounds like you're saying the government collects your religious tithe along with your income tax, which sounds sort of - I must be reading it wrong.

Yes, they do. Here all citizens is registered in their current municipality. Along with your name, marital status and current address you give your (self-identified) denomination. If this this is one that collects church taxes - basically the big two in Germany: Roman Catholics and Lutherans - those are collected with your other taxes. The state keeps a certain percentage for their expenses, but obviously this saves the churches a lot of money. They don't need their own infrastructure and payment morality is perfect.
Of course you are not forced into any denomination. Whenever you feel like it, you can - and many do - go to your city hall and change your status to "no denomination". You don't have to pay anything any longer, but this is reported to your church. From their point of view, when you publicly renounce your faith, you are out (you may be invited to come back, but that's a different story) and they treat you that way. e.g. It wasn't easy to have me, son of one Catholic and one church-leaving heretic, baptized.

[delphica]

Originally Posted by Abbie Carmichael

[b]

They never "see" the taxes withheld, true, but that doesn't mean they didn't *earn* that money.

If I hire you and pay you $10 an hour to make widgets, you're gonna make $400 a week at my factory. Let's pretend you only SEE $300 of that, though, after taxes.

By this logic, should I calculate the cost of my benefits, and tithe 10% of that? Granted, I'm not SEEING that money, but it's part of my compensation package, so I'm earning it. There are several different ways to break down what I "earn" at work -- including my salary in which I pay taxes, what's in my paycheck, as well as assorted benefits that have a monetary value. I'm still of the mind that scripture doesn't speak directly in favor of any one of these interpretations over the others.

On the issue of what makes up the actual tithe, my parish (Roman Catholic), recommends half of the tithe to the church directly, and half to charitable causes. The preference would be for charitable causes related to the mission of the church.

[emarkp]

Originally Posted by Northern Piper

if you get a tax refund, do you tithe from it as well?

Yes.

(LDS tithepayer here.)

This is one of the topics that comes up again and again in the newsgroup soc.religion.mormon (a moderated newsgroup) and alt.religion.mormon (an unmoderated newsgroup that was around for years before the moderated group was created).

First, no one has defined "gross" or "net", but it appears most are talking about before and after taxes.

Abbie what do you say to the small businessman who has revenue of $500,000 per year, but only has $25,000 after expenses? Does he have to pay $50,000 in tithing and thus be in the hole for $25,000?

What about investments like a 401(k)? A reasonable thing is to not tithe when you pay in, but tithe on the whole thing when you take it out. Otherwise you'd tithe on your income, then pay into your 401(k), and then when you cash it out figure out your increase and then tithe that.

As soon as you get into any non-trivial paycheck, you run into issues like these. Personally, I feel that the Lord is more concerned with my honest offering than in my going through the headaches and hassle of getting the numbers correct to the penny.

I've put a lot of thought and prayer into this over the years, and have tried paying pre-tax vs. post-tax (including refunds), prayed about it etc. I'm comfortable with paying post-tax, and I think the Lord accepts my offering as complete. We LDS also have other funds managed by the church that we contribute to, including fast offerings (typically used to help the needy of the church or even non-members in local ares), humanitarian aid, etc.

A new fund we (dangermom & I) like a lot is the Perpetual Education Fund. It creates an endowment from which low-interest loans for education are given to church members around the world, with the intent that they can then raise their income levels and help their local areas. The idea was based on the Perpetual Immigration Fund back in pioneer days in which LDS would give money for people to migrate to Utah, expecting that new immigrants would then give the money back into the fund to help more people immigrate.

[Steve MB]

Originally Posted by Northern Piper

I like Friar Ted's "worms and locusts" approach to taxes, but I have a question for those who tithe on the net - if you get a tax refund, do you tithe from it as well?

If you're tithing on net income, yes -- the tax refund is part of your final net income.

If you're tithing on gross income, no -- you've already tithed on the money that was being withheld from your paycheck, including the part that turned out to be an overpayment that is being refunded to you.

[yoyodyne]

I thank my God that he/she/it has no need for money.

[Abbie Carmichael]

What happens if you don't tithe? What happens if you aren't happy with the way the church is spending your money?

Then you switch churches. If we're expected to sow into good ground, and our church isn't good ground, then it would follow that you should find a church that handles the tithes properly.

For instance, they are spending too much on remodeling the church instead of charitable acts towards the community?

I'm not sure that the tithes SHOULD be spent on the community.

The purpose of the tithe is to run the church and further the Gospel. If that's running a soup kitchen or something like that, sure, I can see using the tithes for that.

My grandmother's church, however, recently made a rather large donation to the annual Run for Life (cancer org, I think). This is a smallish church, not wealthy but not poor either. I'm sure the RFL is great and all, but since church tithes were used, I think she's right in being pissed.

If members wanted to get together and make a special donation, that's cool. But I can't see giving tithes to charitable organizations that have no spiritual purpose whatsoever.

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by yoyodyne

I thank my God that he/she/it has no need for money.

No, He doesn't, but His church and His people do. Someone has to pay so we can worship and run the food shelf and the daycare center and so forth.

Originally Posted by theR

What happens if you don't tithe? What happens if you aren't happy with the way the church is spending your money?

Nothing happens if you don't tithe, at least in my church. I have served on the stewardship committee, and we make a strong effort not to know how much everyone gives. Only the treasurer (on whom may God rain down blessings for her patience) and the person who inputs the information into our database know, and this is considered very confidential.

At my church, if you don't like how the money is spent, you can join a committee and get it changed, or bring it up at our congregational meeting.

Originally Posted by Northern Piper

I like Friar Ted's "worms and locusts" approach to taxes, but I have a question for those who tithe on the net - if you get a tax refund, do you tithe from it as well?

Yes, and from other kinds of income as well. For instance, a relative recently died and I inherited some money from her. We tithed from that because we felt God was leading us to do so. As a result, some unexpected bills at our church got paid, and we were able to make payroll and keep the mortgage current. We didn't know the bills were coming, but God did.

Originally Posted by delphica

By this logic, should I calculate the cost of my benefits, and tithe 10% of that?

In theory. I don't, because it is too hard to calculate non-monetary benefits like this. I cover this with my donations of time.

"The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." I try not to get hung up in "tithing mint and dill and cumin", because it tends to distract me from why I give.

YMM, as ever.

Regards,
Shodan

[you with the face]

It's my feeling that this concern about net versus gross, or even 10% versus another amount, misses the point of giving in the first place. We are talking about God here, not a beauracy. I believe God wants us to give with our hearts; if you have to run figures through a calculator to compute the amount that you are obligated to give, then you are not giving with your heart, now are you?
You are simply being taxed by your conscience.

A multi-billionaire could give a lot more than 10% of his income and still be comfortable. Even if he tithes gross, he's still living extremely fat. If he sticks to giving 10% of the gross because that's what is in the bible, is he demonstrating a offering that is truly of the heart?

Someone with financial burdens who gives less than the Biblically-mandated 10% should not be made to feel as if they are shirking their duty. If they are giving from their heart, then what is the problem?

All this focus on minimum tithing requirements is like focusing on the lowest score one can get on a test and still get a passing grade out of the class. Um, you're supposed to learn from the class, not just pass it.

by Abbie Carmichael

I'm not sure that the tithes SHOULD be spent on the community.

The purpose of the tithe is to run the church and further the Gospel.

I find it hard to believe that Jesus would object to tithes being spent on clothing and food for poor people who happen to be non-Christian and who happen to not want to be converted in exchange for help. I recently donated money to the Sudanese refugees and I consider that money as God's money, just because it is intended to help others obtain the basic necessities of life as they desperately fight for survival in a way I can hardly fathom. Would a loving God have a problem with me spending "His" money on that?

Let's get real!

[Pleonast]

Actually, there is scriptural support for tithes to be given to the community.

Originally Posted by Deuteronomy 14:28-29

²⁸At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns, ²⁹so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

[delphica]

Originally Posted by you with the face

It's my feeling that this concern about net versus gross, or even 10% versus another amount, misses the point of giving in the first place. We are talking about God here, not a beauracy. I believe God wants us to give with our hearts; if you have to run figures through a calculator to compute the amount that you are obligated to give, then you are not giving with your heart, now are you?
You are simply being taxed by your conscience.

I definitely agree with you that too much of the discussion of tithing as a numbers game makes it seem like, well, a racket. But in defense of tithing, I'd like to mention that my parish makes many of the same points that you do when talking about the tithe. It's not supposed to be about making people with less money feel badly, or scoring brownie points with God. These are things the members of my church are reminded of often.

I also once heard a priest talk about the 10% being a good guideline to keep people from giving too much more (granted, he added this wasn't usually the problem), and pointed out the dangers of people feeling competitive about giving, or taking "giving 'til it hurts" to an extreme. You don't want people giving so much that it jeopardizes their family finances. A church is a community, and you don't want members of your community giving away so much of their income that their children are lacking warm clothes and good food. I realize this is an extreme example, but for some people, the giving (and the attention it garners if not done anonymously) can become like an addiction, and no decent church (IMHO) would want to benefit from such a situation.

Personally, I like it when someone gives me a number. Have you ever been in an unfamiliar situation where you didn't know how much to tip? The first year I lived in an apartment building with a doorman, I knew one was supposed to tip him for Christmas, but no one would tell me how much! I asked about a million people, and it was very frustrating when they would say "oh, whatever you think is right." Maddening! By getting an actual number, or in this case, a percentage, at least I know what the general community standard amount is, and can then figure out if my circumstances are so flush that I can afford to give a bit more, or, if things are rough, a little less. There is a Biblical allowance for famine and plague, I believe, which could cover things like unforeseen medical expenses or sudden loss of income.

(Just to be clear, I'm Roman Catholic. The OP addressed the LDS tithe in particular, but also welcomed views from other religions.)

[you with the face]

by delphica

Personally, I like it when someone gives me a number. Have you ever been in an unfamiliar situation where you didn't know how much to tip? The first year I lived in an apartment building with a doorman, I knew one was supposed to tip him for Christmas, but no one would tell me how much! I asked about a million people, and it was very frustrating when they would say "oh, whatever you think is right."

I think tipping a doorman or waitress is not comparable to giving to God. A guideline may take some of the stress out of tithing because you have a set percentage to go by, but it seems to me when it comes to matters of giving there shouldn't be set values. Because when you start trying to make things formulaic, the purpose behind the giving is forgotten.

And what is the purpose for giving? I think my understanding of that is different than a lot of Christians, who see it as an investment for future blessings. I see it as a way to contribute to Good, which is what God wants. I'm not concerned about earning blessings. But everyone is different, right?

[Abbie Carmichael]

Originally Posted by you with the face

I find it hard to believe that Jesus would object to tithes being spent on clothing and food for poor people who happen to be non-Christian and who happen to not want to be converted in exchange for help.

Did you actually READ what I said?

Feeding/clothing the poor, etc. is furthering the Gospel, which is exactly what I said in the quote that you conveniently edited.

Donating a chunk of money to a medical charity is not, which is what I was talking about in my post. People give their tithes thinking it will be used for either the church or church-related stuff. When I hit the ATM on Sunday morning before church, I am not taking out the money just so my church can turn around and give it to, say, the American Heart Association or the United Way.

Personally, I feel that the Lord is more concerned with my honest offering than in my going through the headaches and hassle of getting the numbers correct to the penny.

Oh, I agree. I'd rather see someone REGULARLY tithe off of the net, every time they get paid, then someone who tithes off of the gross just when they feel like it.

As far as the businessman question and the health benefits question, I don't know. Technically everything we have comes from God, but I can see where it would be really hard to tithe an intangible.

[amarinth]

Originally Posted by theR

What happens if you don't tithe?

Well, Acts 5 is a warning if you lie about your tithing.... but other than that, I think my church does good things with the money, and even though I give only a tiny fraction of the budget, that's still something that won't get done because I didn't give.
Also, I think it makes me mindful of how important money should be to me, it makes me a better steward of what has been given to me in all areas (not just money). But, no, I'm not worried about being struck by lightning.

What happens if you aren't happy with the way the church is spending your money? For instance, they are spending too much on remodeling the church instead of charitable acts towards the community?

Well, I'm protestant, so I'd change churches... but, other than that - try and change the way the church is spending money, or give the tithe to somewhere that I felt God's work was being done.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by kellner

Yes, they do. Here all citizens is registered in their current municipality. Along with your name, marital status and current address you give your (self-identified) denomination. If this this is one that collects church taxes - basically the big two in Germany: Roman Catholics and Lutherans - those are collected with your other taxes. The state keeps a certain percentage for their expenses, but obviously this saves the churches a lot of money. They don't need their own infrastructure and payment morality is perfect.
Of course you are not forced into any denomination. Whenever you feel like it, you can - and many do - go to your city hall and change your status to "no denomination". You don't have to pay anything any longer, but this is reported to your church. From their point of view, when you publicly renounce your faith, you are out (you may be invited to come back, but that's a different story) and they treat you that way. e.g. It wasn't easy to have me, son of one Catholic and one church-leaving heretic, baptized.

Thanks for that, and let me just say then.

What about other denominations such as Methodist, Baptist etc? Are they frowned upon or simply ignored?

[kellner]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

What about other denominations such as Methodist, Baptist etc? Are they frowned upon or simply ignored?

It depends on their legal status. A denomination has the right to collect "church taxes" if it is recognized as a so called "corporate body under public law" a status with several privileges. Unfortunately the exact criteria seem a little bit obscure. Besides the big two, those that I can remember right now are Judaism, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Baptists. These and several others have the right to have "church taxes" collected, but don't neccessarily do so. A prominent example of a denomination that doesn't have this status are Jehovah's Witnesses.

I didn't mention the other denomination because they are very small here. The biggest non-Lutheran protestant denomination are the Baptists with 85000 members (of 80 million Germans.)