Political Compass #57: Gay couples should not be excluded from adoption.

Many political debates here have included references to The Political Compass, which uses a set of 61 questions to assess one’s political orientation in terms of economic left/right and social libertarianism/authoritarianism (rather like the “Libertarian diamond” popular in the US).

And so, every so often I will begin a thread in which the premise for debate is one of the 61 questions. I will give which answer I chose and provide my justification and reasoning. Others are, of course, invited to do the same including those who wish to “question the question”, as it were.

It would also be useful when posting in these threads to give your own “compass reading” in your first post, by convention giving the Economic value first. My own is
SentientMeat: Economic: -5.12, Social: -7.28, and so by the above convention my co-ordinates are (-5.12, -7.28). Please also indicate which option you ticked. I might suggest what I think is the “weighting” given to the various answers in terms of calculating the final orientation, but seeing for yourself what kind of answers are given by those with a certain score might be more useful than second-guessing the test’s scoring system.

Now, I appreciate that there is often dissent regarding whether the assessment the test provides is valid, notably by US conservative posters, either because it is “left-biased” (??) or because some propositions are clearly slanted, ambiguous or self-contradictory. The site itself provides answers to these and other Frequently Asked Questions, and there is also a separate thread: Does The Political Compass give an accurate reading? [size=2]Read these first and then, if you have an objection to the test in general, please post it there. If your objection is solely to the proposition in hand, post here. If your objection is to other propositions, please wait until I open a thread on them. (And for heaven’s sake, please don’t quote this entire Opening Post when replying like this sufferer of bandwidth diarrhea.)

The above will be pasted in every new thread in order to introduce it properly, and I’ll try to let each one exhaust itself of useful input before starting the next. Without wanting to “hog the idea”, I would be grateful if others could refrain from starting similar threads. Finally, I advise you to read the full proposition below, not just the thread title (which is necessarily abbreviated), and request that you debate my entire OP rather than simply respond, “IMHO”-like, to the proposition itself.

To date, the threads are:

Does The Political Compass give an accurate reading?
Political Compass #1: Globalisation, Humanity and OmniCorp.
#2: My country, right or wrong
#3: Pride in one’s country is foolish.
#4: Superior racial qualities.
#5: My enemy’s enemy is my friend.
#6: Justifying illegal military action.
#7: “Info-tainment” is a worrying trend.
#8: Class division vs. international division. (+ SentientMeat’s economic worldview)
#9: Inflation vs. unemployment.
#10: Corporate respect of the environment.
#11: From each according to his ability, to each according to need.
#12: Sad reflections in branded drinking water.
#13: Land should not be bought and sold.
#14: Many personal fortunes contribute nothing to society.
#15: Protectionism is sometimes necessary in trade.
#16: Shareholder profit is a company’s only responsibility.
#17: The rich are too highly taxed.
#18: Better healthcare for those who can pay for it.
#19: Penalising businesses which mislead the public.
#20: The freer the market, the freer the people.
#21: Abortion should be illegal.
#22: All authority must be questioned.
#23: An eye for an eye.
#24: Taxpayers should not prop up theatres or museums.
#25: Schools shouldn’t make attendance compulsory.
#26: Different kinds of people should keep to their own.
#27: Good parents sometimes have to spank their children.
#28: It’s natural for children to keep secrets.
#29: Marijuana should be legalised.
#30: School’s prime function is equipping kids to find jobs.
#31: Seriously disabled people should not reproduce.
#32: Learning discipline is the most important thing.
#33: ‘Savage peoples’ vs. ‘different culture’
#34: Society should not support those who refuse to work.
#35: Keep cheerfully busy when troubled.
#36: First generation immigrants can never be fully integrated.
#37: What’s good for corporations is always good for everyone.
#38: No broadcasting institution should receive public funding.
#39: Our civil rights are being excessively curbed re. terrorism.
#40: One party states avoid delays to progress.
#41: Only wrongdoers need worry about official surveillance.
#42: The death penalty should be an option for serious crimes.
#43: Society must have people above to be obeyed.
#44: Abstract art that doesn’t represent anything isn’t art at all.
#45: Punishment is more important than rehabilitation.
#46: It is a waste of time to try to rehabilitate some criminals.
#47: Businessmen are more important than writers and artists.
#48: A mother’s first duty is to be a homemaker.
#49: Companies exploit the Third World’s plant genetic resources.
#50: Mature people make peace with the establishment.
#51: Astrology accurately explains many things.
#52: You cannot be moral without being religious.
#53: Charity is better than social secuity.
#54: Some people are naturally unlucky
#55: Schools and religious values.
#56: Sex outside marriage is usually immoral.
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**Proposition #57: A same sex couple in a stable, loving relationship, should not be excluded from the possibility of child adoption.

SentientMeat** (-5.12, -7.28) ticks Strongly Agree.
“Only if they can prove that the child won’t be disadvantaged” cry the opponents, thus neatly shifting the burden of proof so awkwardly that it crushes those prospective, hopeful foster parents beneath its impossible weight. Such an argument came up when inter-racial marriage was still outlawed, I believe. It was absurd to blame parents of different ethnicities for difficulties faced by the children due to society’s (ie. other people’s) prejudices then, and it’s absurd to trot out the same argument for prospective parents having sexual orientations to which some people have a prejudice now.

Or, perhaps, the game of statistics might be entered into. Some measure such as the average longevity of a same-sex relationship might be compared with heterosexual marriages, and any deficit used to argue the inherent instability of same-sex relationships which would not be in the child’s interest. Even were such an argument not grounds for also excluding, say, divorcees, rich people or (again) multi-ethnic couples, it is in any case not comparing like with like: one would have to either look at comparisons of hetero- and homosexual marriage (and the latter only exists in a few countries worldwide) or at hetero- vs. homosexual relationships, which seem to be no more or less permanent. As for abuse, well, heterosexual step- and foster parents already have something of a corner on that market, especially those in demographic categories which one might choose just as arbitrarily. If research showed that abuse occurred less frequently under same-sex adoption, could we expect to see it being favoured over man-woman couple adoptions on this basis? Somehow, I think opponents would quietly shift to clutching at another straw instead. Indeed, in all of their spurious lines of argument, the scientific consensus helps them not one jot.

Adoption agencies do not simply hand over children on a first-served basis. Their vetting procedures require lengthy and rigorous tests for suitability involving numerous interviews, psychometric assessments, proof of income and occasional house-calls. For a couple to be automatically excluded from this process based solely on their gender is prejudice as simple as that directed towards mixed-race couples decades ago.

Whenever I open one of these threads, it turns out that SentientMeat has already said everything I wanted to say, so I’ll just tick Strongly Agree and offer up a bunch of extra cites, just in case:

http://www1.law.ucla.edu/~williamsproj/press/GayParents.html
http://www.colage.org/research/facts.html#facts
http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=19050
http://www.detnews.com/2001/editorial/0110/10/a09-312959.htm
http://www.narth.com/docs/does.html
http://content.gay.com/channels/news/heads/010427_gayparents.html
http://archive.aclu.org/issues/gay/parent.html

http://joeyrouth.tripod.com/colage/id10.html
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/1467-9450.00302/abs/
http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Resources/ResearchStudies/ERIC.html
http://www.apa.org/pi/l&gbib.html

Sage Rat (1, -1) Strongly Agree

Until such time as it is scientifically proven that people raised by same-sex parents and non are significantly more likely to commit crime, or that married (…as such) homosexual parents are significantly more likely to have sex with their child–I have no issue whatsoever and definitely would rather kids have adoptive parents than be raised by the state. And, so far as I am aware neither of these seems likely to be true and it is entirely possible that once there is a large enough sample of people raised by gay parents that we may find out that different-sex parents have worse statistics. Either way, The numbers would have to be quite impressively awful before I could outlaw two people from having a family just because they happened to fall in a certain category.

Strongly agree.

Any argument that the gay couple would screw the kid up is totally ignoring the millions and millions of people who were royally screwed up by their heterosexual parents. To hear these people tell it, anyone who grew up in a “normal” home is happy, well-adjusted, law-abiding, etc…

Strongly agree - SentientMeat puts the case just fine.

Strongly agree.

Strongly agree.

Anyone else surprised that NARTH published that? I gotta give em a little credit for posting the facts even when they most likely disagree with them.

Strongly disagree.

Relationships that are incapable of producing progeny by natural means should not seek out progeny in other forms.

And for those screaming “What about infertile heterosexual couples?”, the impossibility of bearing children in those circumstances is due to a genetic defect in one or both parties. In the case of gay couples, it is a physical, natural impossibility.

Why not?

You realize that this distinction makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?

Psycho Pirate , I thought the JLA captured you. What are you doing around here?

Also, why do you claim the inability (barring having your mate’s sister contribute a womb, or the brother contribute sperm) to have your mate bear your child have to do with anything?

Facinating. Tell me more.

– Dangerosa
infertile woman, adoptive mother, and surprise bio mom who didn’t know I had any genetic defect that caused infertility until this moment. And who is wondering how that genetic defect suddenly resolved for my daughter’s conception.

Agree

You don’t have to be a raving gay rights supporter to agree to this one. Note that it doesn’t say “gays should be able to adopt as easily as straights”. The proposition is only stating that they shouldn’t be excluded from the process.

I think a statement like this should be impossible to disagree with, tentative as it is in approaching the subject.

(-5.25, -2.46)

I’m far from a raving gay rights supporter. Nor do I necessarily think that gays tend to be ideal to adopt kids. However, a 100% blanket ban seems extreme to me.

I forgot to mention, last week’s episode of Penn and Teller’s Bullshit dealt with this issue to some extent. Well worth a watch.

On what basis do you judge gays to be less than ideal as parents?

It also stipulated same-sex couples in a “stable, loving relationship,” which is no less reasonable than asking the same for prospective hetero couples.

I’m at -4.63 x -7.13.

Strongly agree. And this:

…makes no sense at all. If a man can’t impregnate a woman because he can’t produce viable sperm, then conceveving a child is as much a “physical, natural impossibility” for him as it is for a gay couple to get pregnant (absent the aid of a third party, of course). I can’t think of any reason why this should be a bar to one couple adopting and not the other.

Are you prepared to debate this assertion, which is utterly absurd on its face? Are you saying that there should be no such thing as adoption?

Agree. A stable homosexual couple is preferable to an instable heterosexual one.

(-5.62, -5.49)

Strongly agree.

I see absolutely no difference between a committed gay couple and a committed straight couple.

Considering all of the thousands of children who desperately need a loving home, how can we allow prejudice and ignorance to keep them from one which is available? Anyone who thinks they’re better off in the foster care system than with a loving couple, be they gay or straight, is cold-hearted.