Please let him be dead, he is after all, DEAD!

[Man With a Cat]

So there's this guy I knew. Let's call him John. He married his HS sweetie, 20 odd years ago. We'll call her John's Wife. They had 4 kids.

John was a great guy, almost universally loved. Coached the Jr. High team, all the guys he coached grew up into Fine Young Men. One of his sons narrowly missed winning a state championship at the family sport.

About 3 years ago, John got a diagnosis of all kinds of cancers and was told to make his affairs orderly, because he had mere months. A bit over two years later, John finally passed away, in his own home surrounded by friends and family. While it was incredibly painful for him, it was actually a wonderful peaceful death. John's incredible spirit, openness and humor made it an easy thing for people to be around him right til the end.

Weeks before he died, John was on the sidelines while his 2nd son DID win the state championship in the family sport. Very touching moment that was written up in the local papers.

The funeral was immense. Never have I seen so many kids from 13, up to their early 20's stand and bawl uncontrollably.

Now, I am not unsympathetic, nor am I hardhearted, but here's my issue....

His wife refuses to let the poor man die. It's been 15 months since he died, and life in her home is as if he might walk in at any moment. Her kids have accepted life without dad.

But mom? Well, next Wednesday, she's having a birthday party for him. As she did last year, only a couple months after his funeral. When I say birthday, I mean balloons, cake, singing Happy Birthday, etc

The new home they bought right before he was diagnosed is still wearing the Contractor White paint. Know why? Well, John never decided what colors to do the rooms in, so we haven't painted yet. Perhaps he'll give us a clue at the party, eh?

His ashes were divided up amongst his kids, his wife and a few close friends, who have been told to bring them to the party, so that all the various containers might sit together on the mantle for the singing of happy birthday. No shit.

It goes on.

You talk to her and if John comes up, it's not in the past tense. "John says...." or "John always does...."

I told mutual friends I wouldn't make the birthday party. I'd do anything for her and the family at the drop of a hat, and have. But that just seems....I don't know, a bit skeevy to play along with. Besides, what if he blows out the candles?

[Anaamika]

I'm with you, Mr. Bus Guy. This is pretty creepy. I'm all for expressing grief in the manner that one needs, but there's also moving on, particularly since she has kids who need her. And a birthday party is a bit much!

[Man With a Cat]

Minor correction I just caught - just over ONE year ago he died, after TWO years of fighting.

[tomndebb]

Besides, what if he blows out the candles?

Admit it. This is what is really bothering you.

[Hung Mung]

Really. There's an awful, awful prank in that somewhere.

But I'm with you, man. That's terribly creepy. I really feel sorry for this poor woman, but someone may want to suggest grief counseling or something. She needs help getting on with her life with her kids.

[MagicEyes]

Originally Posted by mr bus guy

Besides, what if he blows out the candles?

Now, that would be really cool! I'd go to a dead guy's party to see that. But seriously, this is creepy. John's wife seems to be having a little trouble letting go. I wonder if anyone else will go to the "party."

Birthday party for a dead guy.

[Shirley Ujest]

The woman is so lost in her greif and probably the past, that she is afraid to move on. She probably does not know how to move on. She's probably never made a decision in her life and now that your friend is gone, doesn't even comprehend this is an option.

She needs grief counseling. For the good of her children to see that life goes on.

[Podkayne]

Gah! The kids are supposed to bring the ashes are invited to the birthday party!?

I've told my loved ones many at time that I'd prefer to be cremated, but if I thought for even a second that my cremains^TM would be part of a posthumous birthday celebration, I'd quickly change my tune.

Pine box. Find me a shady plot somewheres. Bring me some nice flowers or something once in a while. Yep. But NO BIRTHDAY PARTIES.

[tomndebb]

More seriously, Shirley is right: the lady needs grief counseling--not well-intended friends telling her to move on (not that I would accuse the OP of that), but genuine professional support. If the kids are pretty much grown and out of the house, they should suggest it. If the suggestion does not work, they might even consider going witjh their mom to a few sessions, just so it does not look like they are treating her as nuts.

[Phlosphr]

Come on folks. At least the family is not ingesting the ashes every year.


I agree with the counseling charge.

[David Simmons]

Originally Posted by Podkayne

Gah! The kids are supposed to bring the ashes are invited to the birthday party!?

I've told my loved ones many at time that I'd prefer to be cremated, but if I thought for even a second that my cremains^TM would be part of a posthumous birthday celebration, I'd quickly change my tune.

Pine box. Find me a shady plot somewheres. Bring me some nice flowers or something once in a while. Yep. But NO BIRTHDAY PARTIES.

I select cremation too. And let the mortician dispose of the ashes as he sees fit. If the mortician refuses, take the damned stufr and throw it in the river, or alongside the road, or in a flower bed.

I'm with writer H. Allen Smith whose instructions were that he be cremated and the ashes shot from the 'guns' used to make Puffed Wheat.

[Revtim]

Aren't there stages of grief, and acceptance is one of them? She hasn't hit that stage yet.

The Simpsons writers didn't make those stages up, did they?

[Man With a Cat]

I agree with all the calls for professional counseling - that's kind of what prompted me to write this. Someone's planning to have that talk with her soon.

The kids are 22, 19, 16 and 14. The youngest is the girl, who is the one we all fear for. She's adopted the attitude that mom doesn't even notice her around the house, consequently on any given night, she's at one of 2 or 3 different friend's homes for the night. Fortunately, the friends are all good friends of the family and the daughter is watched like a hawk, plus she's a good kid - not likely to run off and do anything dumb.

Of her brothers, only the oldest is any good with her, the other two treat her like second class because she wasn't a 'rassler.

[twickster]

Remember that Olympic beach volleyball player who had her mother's ashes mixed in with the sand at the pit?

This is significantly weirder than that.

Seriously -- the woman clearly needs some help with moving on. Are you close enough to anyone in the family to make that suggestion?

[NE Texan]

In addition to the professional counseling: If you are close enough to make the suggestion, could you suggest that instead of a "birthday party", making it more of a "John Memorial"? A time to meet, go through old pictures, share memories of the person and talk about good times, but not so much a cake and candles? That could be a way to still acknowledge the grief and loss she feels without making it something creepy where she's still acting like he's there.

Of course, she may completely not go for the suggestion.

[Man With a Cat]

I'm close to the family, but another friend who's closer and I were talking about this last night because he's pretty concerned too. He's going to sit her down and have the "now seriously....." talk.

This week she held a golf outing to raise money for a scholarship she's establishing in his name. A great thought, well attended and everyone there was a friend of his and was there for the cause. OK, and the golf, but still.....

That's the kind of thing we want to get through to her would be a better avenue for her grief, something to celebrate John without getting creepy about it. And yeah, there at the lunch following golf was a whole display of pictures that a lot of us stood around and remembered him by.

Then during her speech, she brought up the party and invited everyone. Ever see 80 golfers sober up instantly?

[Athena]

Everyone mourns differently.

My mother made birthday cakes for my sister's birthday for years after she died. The urn with her ashes sat on top of the TV for at least a decade. My mother was comforted by keeping her memory close. Even now - 22 years after she was killed in a car wreck - my mother has rituals and memories she does on her birthday and the day she died.

Of course, it's miserably hard on the rest of us. But hey, who are we to say how she mourns?

[Amazon Floozy Goddess]

Everyone has their own methods of handling grief. Some cry a lot, some want to be isolated, some get angry. Not everyone goes through all the stages. She is definitely in denial, and probably still in shock, too. It might be an unconscious psychological defense mechanism to keep her from losing her mind or having a breakdown. I agree she really needs to talk to a counsellor - she probably realizes it deep down, but doesn't want to bring it up b/c she's afraid the pain might be too much for her to handle.

[Anaamika]

Originally Posted by Athena

Of course, it's miserably hard on the rest of us. But hey, who are we to say how she mourns?

Of course....but there is a 14 YO daughter I worry about. And I remember how vulnerable 14 is - it's the year I found out I was adopted.

[ioioio]

It must be incredibly painful to lose a spouse in a truly good marriage – I’m talking about a marriage of soulmates, where two people together make something better than the sum of them separately.

In the past couple of years, I’ve seen two widows just give up and die within a year of the death of their husbands. Both were strong women with wonderful marriages. I think the loss was just too much for them, that they realized it was unlikely they would ever again have a love that was the center of their being, and life seemed impossibly empty without it.

Another woman (“Betty”) lost her beloved husband of many years, and she’s hung on only because her eight grown children have made sure she did. One of her daughters (and grandchildren) lives right down the street from her; the daughter’s kind of a mess, so Betty not only always has someone close, but she knows she’s needed. The other children call and visit a LOT. Betty and her husband loved to travel, and since his death, the children take Betty along on every vacation; she probably gets to take four or five nice vacations every year. But when you’re with her, all she talks about is her deceased husband.

It’s possible that John’s wife would not be doing even as well as she is if she weren’t hanging on for the sake of her youngest child.

Grief is a way of holding on to the person you’ve lost. The decision to start letting go of the grief can feel like a betrayal of the loved one. A year is not much time to grieve over the loss of the center of your life (I’ve spent longer than that pining over a failed love affair). But there is a child involved here, one who needs her mother desperately right now. I hope that John’s wife can be persuaded to get counselling so that she can find the strength to take care of her daughter.

Also, I recommend this book How to Go on Living When Someone You Love Dies

[Nawth Chucka]

Seriously, am I the only one to have Oingo Boingo in my head after reading the OP??

My grampa put my gramma's ashes in a smallish wooden box on the dresser in the guest bedroom. My mom opened it up thinking it was a knick knack box she could throw her jewelry, etc in while staying over...good thing she put her hand in first to make sure nothing was in there. *yike*

[Batsinma Belfry]

That's pretty creepy, but it's not like she's been doing it for several years. And hopefully, she won't. I just hope the children are old enough to understand. That behavior could be damaging to very young kids.

[Mangetout]

I think if we're honest about this, John Travolta is to blame.

[Man With a Cat]

Acchhhh! The phone. I forgot the phone....

Seems that during the last days John was at home, he had a few false alarms. Priests rushed to the house, that sort of thing. He told his family that he'd know when to go, and when it was time, he'd "signal" them by opening this music box that played some little music box-ish song he liked to hear.

So now when you call their house, guess what ringtone plays on the phone?

[Bippy the Beardless]

Originally Posted by mr bus guy

Of her brothers, only the oldest is any good with her, the other two treat her like second class because she wasn't a 'rassler.

What, please, is a 'rassler ? It does sound like the widdow needs some help from professionals.

[SisterCoyote]

Originally Posted by Phlosphr

Come on folks. At least the family is not ingesting the ashes every year.


I agree with the counseling charge.

Phlosphr, have you been sneaking peeks at my bookshelf? I swear I've got a short story here somewhere in a supposedly erotic (!) collection that deals with exactly that...

But, yes, I don't think counseling would hurt, or someone close enough gently suggesting that a big birthday party might not be the best thing at the moment.

And I believe 'rasslin' is "Wrestling". At least it was the last time I checked.

[ivylass]

Originally Posted by Athena

Of course, it's miserably hard on the rest of us. But hey, who are we to say how she mourns?

There's grieving, and then there's hurting your loved ones because of your denial.

The youngest is the girl, who is the one we all fear for. She's adopted the attitude that mom doesn't even notice her around the house, consequently on any given night, she's at one of 2 or 3 different friend's homes for the night.

This is a little girl who lost her father at a young age. Her mother is oblivious and apparently doesn't care when her youngest is not at home in bed at night. This is why Mrs. John needs counseling. She is not functioning and is hurting her daughter.

Let us know how it goes.

[Man With a Cat]

Originally Posted by Bippy the Beardless

What, please, is a 'rassler ? It does sound like the widdow needs some help from professionals.

Wrestler. As in high school/junior high wrestling. All three of his sons wrestle. In HS, John himself was a state contender, and this is in somewhat of a wrestling hotbed. He volunteered as a coach at their junior high. One son nearly won state a few years ago, the second one DID last year, and the last one was a state Jr. High champ and looks to do as well as his brothers did in high school. Not to mention that many of the kids he coached and stayed close with after they were his students, went on to high school and success. Someone told me once that he has about 14 former students that received full-rides to college for their wrestling, a couple at Big Ten schools.

His daughter, who seems to disappear in the house, is a 14 year old beauty. Could pass for 18 easily, dances like she was born to do nothing else, has a tremendous sense of humor, is outspoken and takes NO shit from her brothers.

Her best friends and their parents have more or less adopted her. Each night kind of ends with a round of "who's got John's girl?" phone calls. She's welcome at any of their homes, but MUST call mom to let her know where she is. I should explain that mom works midnights so she can be home after school with the kids.

The oldest son is great, will break his back to help mom and has taken on the big brother/faux dad role, the middle one is quite concerned with himself and the last one is a cocky prick that if he wasn't 16, I'd bust his nose.

The daughter needs some counseling as well, but she is getting it. Her parents didn't tell any of the kids things were as grave as they were until the last couple months. They could get away with it because he really only got BAD at that point. So the kids went from 'dad's sick but fighting and it looks ok', to "no dad" in a matter of weeks. And the daughter, being an only daughter was Daddy's Princess, and took this very very hard. Not to mention that the outpouring from the rest of the community was all about John and all his boys (the kids he coached), so imagine losing your dad and hardly being recognized. Her relationship with her dad wasn't out there on the mat and in the gym for everyone to see, it was a "just you and me kid" kind of thing, and now he's not around.

She had, and has incredible anger issues over the whole thing, which I'm, sure doesn't help the relationship with mom. Even now, she's pretty quick to anger, but is reasonable and gets talked down ok. Like I said, she has good people for friends, and they all have good families, so her support system will be there for her.

ivylass, I'll make sure and keep things updated here.

But I am NOT going to that party.

[Jake]

I think that this is an expression of a very deep love for her deceased husband.
If her actions make her feel better, so be it.

[xbuckeye]

Without being creepy, can you insert yourself, or another upstanding father-type to do the daddy things with her? I understand that there are other parents who are tag teaming her parenting, but a special, supportive, I'm always here for you, male figure would perhaps help her long term.

[Tenar]

Originally Posted by Jake

I think that this is an expression of a very deep love for her deceased husband.
If her actions make her feel better, so be it.

Not. If. It. Torments. The. Children.

Otherwise, fine. Knock yourself out. But her right to be a psycho widow went out the window when she had kids. She is entitled to her grief, but if it is making the daughter feel unloved or unneeded, it's time for mom to get on the couch and get on some meds and get her stuff together.

Under the circumstances, anything else is self indulgent.

[SnakesCatLady]

Originally Posted by SisterCoyote

Phlosphr, have you been sneaking peeks at my bookshelf? I swear I've got a short story here somewhere in a supposedly erotic (!) collection that deals with exactly that...

But, yes, I don't think counseling would hurt, or someone close enough gently suggesting that a big birthday party might not be the best thing at the moment.

And I believe 'rasslin' is "Wrestling". At least it was the last time I checked.

Sister Coyote, I also have that book, and it was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read that post. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[Atticus Finch]

Originally Posted by mr bus guy

So now when you call their house, guess what ringtone plays on the phone?

That is the disturbing icing on this whole big creepy cake...

[Laughing Hermit]

This is just too weird..And I'd best not laugh about it as that would be bad Karma..

[Ashes, Ashes]

I don't suppose there's anybody she'll listen to, if she's sat down and told to get her act together? A co-worker wasn't handling her husband's death very well and it was messing up her kids and grandkids. Everybody tip-toed around her for three years. Finally, her brother-in-law just flat out told her she would knock off the drama queen crap and get counseling, etc. They cleaned up the house one room at a time, and he sat with her while she made an appointment with a counselor and drove with her to the office.

She's still a nasty cow, but she's afraid of her brother-in-law laying down the law again and keeps the wallowing to a tolerable level. The kids are still messed up (one escaped through drugs and is dead) but not as much as was feared.

Basically, grieving is fine, but sometimes you get stuck inside it and need someone to give you a kick in the pants to get going again. Sooner rather than later in this case, since she's got kids depending on her.

[ioioio]

Ashes, Ashes: best username to post to this thread.

[Geobabe]

Originally Posted by Portia

Seriously, am I the only one to have Oingo Boingo in my head after reading the OP??

Nope.

Y'know, a "birthday party" that was sort of a memorial where everyone could gather to share their memories would be kind of cool, but not a cake and balloons, sing "Happy Birthday" to the ashes deal. Yikes.

[saoirse]

Originally Posted by NE Texan

In addition to the professional counseling: If you are close enough to make the suggestion, could you suggest that instead of a "birthday party", making it more of a "John Memorial"? A time to meet, go through old pictures, share memories of the person and talk about good times, but not so much a cake and candles? That could be a way to still acknowledge the grief and loss she feels without making it something creepy where she's still acting like he's there.

Of course, she may completely not go for the suggestion.

NE Texan, this is exactly the right approach. She doesn't want her husband to simply disappear, but she doesn't have a healthy way of memorializing him. A remembrance party of some sort is definitely in order.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

Of course....but there is a 14 YO daughter I worry about. And I remember how vulnerable 14 is - it's the year I found out I was adopted.

I was 13 when my sister died, and my family went into a tailspin. So yeah, I know how it goes.

Look, I'm not saying that this woman wouldn't benefit from grief counseling, and yeah, she's probably holding on a bit longer than normal. But really, 15 months isn't very long when we're talking about mourning, especially when we're talking about someone who died before his time. Something like that affects people for years, not just months. Sure, to us, it seems creepy, but to the poor woman it probably gives her a connection to her husband. Odd? Yes. But hell, I can tell you right now that if something happened to Mr Athena I'd probably be a real pain in the ass for many, many years after the fact. Shit like that sometimes doesn't go away in nice, neat little boxes the way people think it should.

[Ellen Cherry]

Athena, I don't think anyone is suggesting that her pain and grief should "go away." It's just that she's holding on in ways that are unhealthy, particularly to her daughter. Of course it's going to be hard. Nobody really knows how they're going to handle a thing until they go through it. (I lost an infant daughter, so I know whereof I speak.)

mr bus guy I wonder if you should go on to the party. What would happen if everyone boycotted? That would be a huge blow to the widow! Hopefully someone can get her to change the tenor of the party so it's a memorial, but still. I think you should reconsider and go no matter what kind of strange bash it is. It sounds like everyone involved is very close and it's very hard for everyone. The family has my prayers!

[PinkMarabou]

Originally Posted by Revtim

Aren't there stages of grief, and acceptance is one of them? She hasn't hit that stage yet.

The Simpsons writers didn't make those stages up, did they?

No, it's not made up. From here. 1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance. Some psychologists refute it of course, but it is real . . . speaking from experience.

Seems she has not moved on from denial yet. She may need professional help in getting past it. Unfortunately, grief is different for different people. I would venture to guess something else might be going on as far as a chemical imbalance. She might have developed a touch of OCD because of the trauma. More the obsessive rather than the compulsive.

She needs to have her family intervene on this. If this goes on too long, it could be potentially damaging to her children. Don't YOU do this, but try to bring it up in conversation with her family: "how's John's wife handling this? Is she getting along okay?" etc. Unfortunately it's not your place and only the family can decide when enough is enough and where their boundaries are.

Good luck.