Diogenes the Cynic, Fount of Perfect Knowledge

The BBQ Pit
1

Czarcasm has rightly pointed out that this thread has gotten to hot for IMHO. Let us bring the discussion here, where we can freely hurl “childish insults.”

To recap the thread, Zsofia observed some behaviour in one of her neighbors that she considered suspicious: a constant stream of people pulling up to the house, performing a quick transaction, and leaving. Additionally, there were people playing basketball in the intersection near the house around the clock, despite a nearby park that would have been better suited to the game. Rightly or wrongly, she suspects that drug dealing may have been going on.

“Should I report what’s happening to the police?,” she wonders.

Enter Diogenes the Cynic, Kalhoun, and others.

I wake up every day grateful that people like them are on the SDMB to dispense their perfect wisdom in such threads. They’ve illuminated many facets of the situation that I never would have seen if not for their brilliance.

For example, Kalhoun makes a subtle accusation of racism:

And Diogenes explores a new moral code (1 , 2, 3) that he’s creating and evolving as the thread goes along. It’s similiar to the Wiccan reed, but less self-centered: If it hurts not you, personally, let them do as they will.

And, really, he has a point! Why should we report crimes that don’t affect us? Especially drug crimes! Reporting drug dealing is, like, ratting out your fellow people to the man, and that’s like, totally not groovy, man.

Now, some would say that such a moral code is stupid, and that, unfortunately, drug dealing does tend to lead to crime. But Diogenes knows better!

One can’t help but read the thread and be struck by Diogenes brilliance: His understanding of morality and the social issues caused by illegal drugs are clearly deep , profound, and immutable. Is there anything related to the thread that he doesn’t know? Has he undergone some sort of transfiguration that’s given him a diety-like omniscience?

Given that he knows that he knows how Zsofia feels, I believe that it is indeed the case:

Truly, an eye-opening thread in many ways.

2

This sucks, because I also want to pit **DtC ** but I happen to agree with him in this thread.

I don’t think **ZSofia ** should *totally * ignore what is happening with her neighbors, but all the same, it does make me nervous because most of the stuff she has seen is innocent, and I really fear she is going to get them in trouble for nothing.

That out of the way, I’ve noticed a lot that **DtC ** is turning into an arrogant guy.

Also in the thread where people commented that they hated getting their picture taken, he was angry to the point of cursing because people couldn’t just agree that it was OK to take pictures no matter what.

There are other examples and I’ve thought about pitting the guy myself except it’s not really that important to me. But I do get really anoyed that he starts from a premise “This is OK to me” and extrapolates it “This should be Ok to everyone!” It pisses me off that he seems to think he knows everything about everything.

So **DtC **, lay the fuck off, wouldja? Some of us gasp have different opinions than you.

3

If it were known for a fact that there was drug dealing going on there, and not just suspicion, you might have had a point here.

4

But how would they get in trouble if she calls the cops, then?

5

Read what Diogenes wrote. I helpfully quoted it directly below that paragraph of mine that you just quoted.

I’ll even helpfully quote it again, in case you don’t want to scroll back up to the OP:

He’s going beyond advocating not calling the cops when you suspect drug dealing; he’s saying not to call the cops even if you know they’re dealing drugs.

6

I don’t know, Bricker. It just seems to me to be fearful paranoia of a nosy neighbor, and Og knows I’ve had plenty of them. I hate nosy neighbors. I hate buttinskis who assume because you have strange hours that you must be up to something awful, gasp!

At the same time, I *do * understand **ZSofia’s ** fear. I can be on both sides of this argument, can’t I?

Anyway this pitting is about DtC. Who does exhibit the traits stated in the OP.

7

I understand not wanting to squeal, rat out, sing like a canary, turn, etc. But some things simply need to be reported. Anyone remember Kitty Genovese? She was killed. Reports said that nobody helped, nobody called the police (I haven’t verified and it’s been years since it happened). Anyway, that is the logical conclusion of the don’t interfere train of thought. They ain’t killing me, so I don’t wanna get involved. Similar to drug deals. They ain’t bothering me, so why bother - until my kids are old enough to start buying(?).
You don’t have to go Punisher on anyone, but sometimes making a phone call is the right thing to do. Note: I am not strongly anti-drug, and I think the War On Drugs was lost before it started, but oh well.

From Metacom’s summary: “a constant stream of people pulling up to the house, performing a quick transaction, and leaving”

That ain’t no basketball. That sounds like a dealer is running business.

8

Oops, sure enough I missed that somehow. Sorry for the mistake, Metacom, and thanks for your unecessary politeness in the pit pointing that out.

9

There’s a huge difference betweem a rape/murder and suspected drug activity. If there’s no suspicion of a meth kitchen or preteens overdosing, I can hardly work up more than a meh. Or if the general quality of life in the neighborhood starts declining, of course.

But say hi to Jimmy Cagney for me, will ya, huh, will ya?

10

For me, Diogenes’ “I have a superior morality, therefore I am better than all of you” will be exemplified by This thread.

Highlights:

“I wish Americans would just admit that dropping [a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima] was evil and move on… We did a shitty thing. Why is it so hard just to admit that?”

“The US won WW II largely by deliberately targeting civilians. When other people do that, we (rightly) call them “terrorists.” When America does it, it’s heroism.”

“I asked if you would be willing to burn your own children to death to end a war. If your answer is no, then you have no right to burn anyone else’s children to death. If your answer is yes, then you’re a fucking psychpath.”

“Killing civilians was the point and the ONLY point of the fire bombing raids in Germany and Japan and was the only point of dropping the atomic bombs on Japan. Citing any incidental damage to military targets is just weak-ass rationalizing and I’m not fucking buying it.”

“Personally, I can’t find a way to convince myself that killing other people’s children is any less reprehensible than killing my own. If there’s a God, he agrees with me.”

And then, because it’s not whacked enough…

“Quitting is always an option. We could have just called it a day like we did with Nam. It wasn’t like the US was physically under attack any more after Pearl Harbor. I don’t see why it’s necessary to do any more than what is necessary for self-defense.”

“If we had no immediate defensive reason to continue the war with Japan, then why not just quit and go home? I’m not talking about surrendering, just leaving. Maybe I’m missing something here. I mean that seriously. What WAS the reason that we had to keep fighting Japan? I really don’t know.”

“As to whether we should have fought the Germans…I don’t know. That’s a tough one. On principle I don’t support non-defensive wars, but stopping genocide seems to a good reason to make an exception.”

“Yes, I have a sense of right and wrong which I value more than mindless flag-waving. I guess that makes me scum. I don’t care.”

So, in other words, those who believe that fighting in World War II against the Nazis and against Japan are mindless flag-wavers, and psychopaths.

11

It should hardly come as a surprise that, when faced with an identical situation, I called the cops.

Drug dealers across the street. Heavy traffic. Very heavy traffic. Sometimes so heavy that all of the customers couldn’t fit in the house, so one neighbor would come out and take orders curbside and another neighbor would come along and fill the orders. Sound ridiculous? You bet. So I’d call the cops. This was on an older cordless phone and as soon as my call was taken, I’d notice the visitors would start to leave…in a hurry. Come to find out, you could hear the call on a police scanner if you were in range. So I hooked up an old rotary phone.

The constant flow of traffic in an otherwise quiet neighborhood was somewhat of a distraction. A car door slamming in front of the house every couple of minutes, constantly, that was an annoyance. The fact that many of the visitors felt the need to leave their stereo cranked up to 11 while they paid their 5 minute visit at 3 AM got old. The yelling in the yard was unsettling. The beer cans/bottles in my yard were a nuisance.

This went on for quite a bit while the police compiled their evidence. I took some pics of some of the heavy traffic days. I’d set out on the porch with a sheriff’s deputy on Wednesday afternoons and watch the visitors abort their visit when they noticed.

They finally busted the guy after he had moved away from my neighborhood, crack dealer (big surprise).

I don’t feel one damn bit bad for helping to take my quiet neighborhood back from the drug dealers. I had another batch move in in the house next to the first, meth dealers. They were already known to the police and didn’t last long, but it was a lot of the same, slamming car doors and yelling in the middle of the night, lots of cars, etc.

If you want that shit across the street from you, good on ya. I don’t.

12

Well, I was having a teeny bit of fun with it :wink:

13

Hmm…there’s some kind of a disconnect here but I just can’t quite put my finger on it…

14

I suppose it is a matter of personal limits. I have known many people that have committed just about every crime imaginable and I never turned them in. I hate nosiness more than just about anything so my first instinct is not to be hypocritical. Many people I know do something illegal and these people generally aren’t hoodlums. It could be mild tax evasion or registering a vehicle in New Hampshire when they are a Massachusetts resident. My college roommate sold Ecstasy as a fundraiser for his fraternity. I never got mad about that even though I have never done any drugs myself.

I have also been on the other side. I have had former neighbors turn me in for things like animal abuse and blowing up a construction site when I was younger that were completely false and created some serious, baseless, headaches for me. I tend to have a live and let live attitude.

That said, if I thought that my daughter was in the least little bit of danger because of illegal activity in the neighborhood then I would be armed and charging doors with the police department right behind me. If I thought that the neighborhood was turning to crap and my property values were going down then I would be among the first to report it. It is all about personal limits and sound judgement. You shouldn’t turn people in on a whim but if you have strong reason to believe something dangerous is going on, you would be irresponsible not to. OTOH, you can’t just play hall monitor and report every inconsistency you see because you will become Gladys Kravitz and nobody likes that.

15

Why, I oughta…

This is almost fodder for a CS thread.

16

I think suspicion is sufficient justification if the only or most likely explanation for the observed behavior is drug dealing. Based on what I’ve read in the other thread and some personal experience, I think getting the police involved is justified.

17

Just as some who wouldn’t have called the cops in Zsofia’s situation still find Diogenes’s in that thread to be fucking nuts, I find some of his critcisms in that thread valid (I have very mixed feelings about the nuke and firebombings in WWII) but think his arguments progress to nutting fuckery.

Like in many other threads, he starts from a vaguely defensible premise and then switches on the hubris and starts emitting a continually escalating stream of rhetorical bullshit.

18

In that case, I can see calling the cops.

19

DTC is opposed to burning innocent children to death? My God, you’re right. He is indeed history’s greatest monster.

20

Hell, I’m on two sides of this. Wouldn’t have started the thread otherwise; I’d just have either called or not called. I can’t stand the thought of somebody observing the traffic at my house - ooh, a young man came over night before last and didn’t leave until the morning! There have been drunk people! Outside! There has been a certain amount of gardening! Packages have arrived! One could even observe crock pot cookery if one watched hard enough!

I have been exceedingly alarmed to find out that yeah, it’s different when you own. I’m not sure I would have called without having seen some definate dealing if this were a rental, or an apartment. And I haven’t told my dad about it, because he’d freak out if he thought his baby girl was living across the street from anybody but St. Francis. (And he’d probably be upset about all those damned animals if he were.)

But Diogenes’ notion that even if they were dealing smack, it would make you a bad person to call the po pos on them? What the fuck is the matter with you?! Some drug dealers are nice neighbors? Who gives a flying fuck, I’m sure some serial killers are too but I don’t want them in my neighborhood and I didn’t know I had to explain why!

And I’d almost forgotten about that little subtle accusation by Kalhoun about the “basketball”, thanks. I am happy and proud to live in a neighborhood that’s so culturally mixed (and it’s not “transitional” really - it’s sort of always been that way by choice.) And how the hell do you know they’re black guys? I’m not sure I even mentioned that in my OP. They could be a pack of WASP Yaleites selling their mothers’ Oxycontin for all you know, jackass.