Sevastopol: stupid, dishonest hateful piece of shit.

It’s getting close to that time again, when the Anti-Doper 2006 takes his or her crown. Sevasty is campaigning hard. But until it comes time to crown someone Least Valuable Doper, I figured that to avoid hijacking a thread in GD any further by attempting to get him to stop lying through his teeth, I’ll start this Pit thread.

To put this all in context, this is a poster who has argued that the deliberate and cold blooded murder of a pregnant woman and her children can be waved away with a so be it. He first claimed that “This isn’t an irrefutable argument by any means, or even one I necessarily support.”

His claims of intellectual neutrality were, of course, shown to be simple lies and
baiting when he continued on with claims that

[

](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4830652&postcount=274)

The classic question, of course, being “were you lying then, or are you lying now?”

He then went on to deny that he had said what he had said. Rather stupid, since his posts didn’t exactly disapear just becuase they were revolting.. It’s one thing to be a liar, it’s quite another to be a liar who is so painfully stupid that he lies even when he can be quoted.

And not only is he a stupid, hateful shitlicker who supports the murder of Israeli civilians, but he’s too stupid and/or dishonest to answer a question. When asked why Palestinians would have a right to murder Israelis for taking property but no other country would, he called the question “incoherent”.

He goes on to ignore the question some more, and even when it’s shown that he’s talking out his ass when it comes to legal matter he simply runs away from the thread, not posting any more.

But… all this is background and simply goes to show a pattern of stupid, dishonest, hateful bullshit. What takes the cake is a recent thread in GD. Let’s follow the bouncing ball of intellectual whoredom, shall we?

He denies that Hamas has genocidal goals. This while admitting that Hamas wants to “reclaim” the territory held by Israel, knowing that Hamas operates via violence. It takes a special kind of stupidity coupled with a special kind of dishonesty to ignore the fact that making a population leave by killing them is genocide.

But wait, there’s more!

He then denies that Hamas has malice towards Israelis. Shall I repeat that? He claims that Hamas has no malice towards Israelis. Hamas. No malice. The words themselves were so horrified to be in each other’s company that several dictionaries spontaneously burst into flames.

Two posts later I responded by citing Hamas’ own positions, including Hamas’ support and endorsement for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and a statement right in the Hamas charter saying

In a later post, but before his next lying response, I also cite how Hamas runs camps in which “[t]hey also [teach children] to sing “intifada songs,” including one urging them to “kill Zionists wherever they are, in the name of God.””
No malice there, is there? Killing them wherever they are is obviously so full of the milk of human kindness that I’m surprised I didn’t get warm fuzzies.

But is Sevasty content being an honorless hateful liar? Nope. He has to show himself to be so stupid that he’s in danger of drowning when it rains.

He actually has the nerve to claim that
“It’s clear Hamas have no genocidal intent to Israeli Jews or to Jewish people generally, so that’s what I said. There is no genocide planned and no malice.”

No malice. “Kill the zionists wherever they are.”
No genocide. “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

After his denial I again provide him with the cite of Hamas’ own words. But even with having that cite presented to him, again, he still continues to lie.
And continues.

This dishonest waste of space goes so far as to say:

This, after I have provided Hamas’ own words. Several times. For those curious, by the way, here is Hamas’ charter. You can read their stated goal of genocide at the end of Article 7.

Not content to let his status as an honorless lying piece of infectous human waste remain in doubt, he continues.
This time displaying yet more stupidity which can only be considered epic in scale. To deny something that has been cited and quoted so many times requires a special kind of creature.

So there I leave it, I’ve gotten my venting in at an honorless waste of carbon and, hopefully, prevented a GD thread from being hijacked by having to continually point out, with textual citations, again, and again, and again, that he’s a damn liar.

Sevastopol? I gotta admit, this is a sensational Pitting. A true 10 out of 10. Thoroughly researched, and basically, you just got your ass handed to you on a platter. Along with your head.

Suck it up and learn from it. Basically, this is an opportunity to demonstrate magnanimity and empathy. Try it. It’ll do ya good.

Bravo. An Oscar-worthy Pitting. I sit in amazement.

Generally speaking, **Sevastopol ** is overreaching. There is however one item that bothers me from **Finnagain **: his use of the 1988 charter of Hamas in the discussion, and that is because Hamas ran in the election with a changed platform:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/669006.html

Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel said that Hamas should be accepted as long as it renounces its goal of destroying Israel.

I don’t trust Hamas, but not willing to deal with them is dumb, I do trust Israel will be ready if Hamas does not act in the proper way from here on.

But a platform for election does not negate the group’s charter.

Moreoever, this is not exactly anything new for Palestinian politics. Say one thing in writing for international consumption, and another to your constituents.

[

](http://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulletins%20new.htm#b220106)

Still think that Hamas has “[made] no mention of the principle that has been Hamas’ raison d’etre since its founding: the destruction of Israel and establishment of a Palestinian state on all territory west of the Jordan River in its place?”

It is however the most recent position from Hamas, the point here is to make them follow their word, one way or another.

You must be confusing me with someone else, I already do take that into account. The idea here is to pressure them to follow more closely what they put in writing. Everything that you are pointing that is coming from Hamas I already noticed, and I’m sure Israel and the west will be ready to deal with Hamas if they attempt to follow on those threats.

Don’t put words in my mouth; I did not say that, it was the magazine from Israel who said that. And even then you are now misleading: I was reporting only on the election charter, unless you can point to where on the charter that appears, you are only pointing then to what elements of Hamas are doing separately from the new government.

Nice OP, FinnAgain, but I doubt it’ll be much help. Sevastopol may be a smug little prick, but he’s too slick a cockroach to be pinned down that easily. I forsee him diverting this pitting off-course in one of two ways:

  1. He’ll portray it as some sort of long-running feud betwen the two of you, and claim to have “won” previous scaps, even though there is no evidence of such an event ever occurring. Expect maximum snideness.

  2. He’ll divert it into an vaguely-worded attack on Israel’s policies and very existance, while trying to gather the board’s liberals to his camp. (This is not to say that Sevastopol is a liberal - to paraphrase Morgan Freeman in the Shawshank Redemption, you have to be human first).

On the off-chance that he’ll actually debate your points. I think I understand the thrust of his argument - the will to destroy Israel is not genocide because not all Jews live in Israel. To him, the contry is not an actual nation but rather a colonial outpost of World Jewry.

This, of course, is absurd. Israel is a real and independent nation-state, with its own unique language, culture, history and institutions. If it’s not a real country than neither is Syria… or Egypt… or France… or the U.S. If he considers mass murder or expulsion of Palestinians to be genocide - and he does - than the same must be said about Israelis.

Anyway, good luck. I’ll see what I can do to help.

Unfortunately, no.

No, it isn’t, as my quote evinced. At the same time as they were saying in writing that Israel had a right to exist, they had campaign ads on TV saying it did not.

I guess I don’t understand then. Why did you say that you have a problem with me citing the charter, when the charter hasn’t been renounced and when Hamas officials are still using the same exact rhetoric when it’s not designed to fool international audiences? Why point out that a written platform did not contain certain language when their elections ads did?

I’m honestly curious, can you please clear it up? If I misunderstood you I’m certainly willing to apologize, but I don’t grok.

I assumed that you quoted it in order to imply that you supported it. Why did you if you don’t stand behind what it said?

No. I cited an election ad that Hamas ran on PA TV. One that ran on January 17th, 2006.

So would you like to clarify your position, as I hardly think that it’s ‘misleading’ for me to respond to criticisms which say that there’s a problem with me citing the charter when the charter hasn’t been changed and when Hamas’ official communications still endorse it?

If it makes you feel better, I think both of you are wastes of electrons.

Oh, and:

Thanks much on both counts.

Thank you kindly as well.

Neato. Thanks for the compliment.

I pretty much agree with the premise of the OP, except I’d substitute “weaselly” for “stupid”.

He also gets credit for helping to expand the genre of Holocaust denial-denial, in the thread aboutIran’s president.

Wow.
Some people know no bounds, it seems.

Well Pitted, FinnAgain, for all the good it will do.

FWIW, Sevastapol is one of the Dopers against whom it is possible to clearly win an argument, without any ambiguity about the result at all. Unfortunately, he is not honest enough to admit it, or perhaps perceive it, so you have to be content with the satisfaction of having been shown to be correct.

It’s like wetting your pants in a dark suit. It gives you a warm feeling, but nobody notices.

Regards,
Shodan

Oy Vey! ;j

Once again I know that, and it is reprehensible from Hamas, I’m coming from the side that believes in taking that new official charter and ram it down their throats if they don’t follow it or if they decide to follow their propaganda.

I’m a believer in using the written language as the overriding contract. Right now it is their official government position, when in the discussion you insisted on bringing the charter of 1988 or their propaganda, you are then excluding a chunk of Palestinians that one could negotiate with. Just like Levitt in the USA once said: “No man who owns his own house and lot can be a Communist” It is obvious to me that Hamas controlling their homeland is an opportunity to find out who are the ones willing to follow the law and govern in peace or who are willing to be the stupid warriors and be destroyed.

Oy! like Elie Wiesel and the west, my position is not to support it, but to USE the documment to take them to task against the rotten Hamas propaganda and any rotten action they perform against Israel.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138616481171&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I’m confused… there is no new official charter.
I think you’re refering to their campaign platform which EvilHamsterOnCrack was kind enough to cite Hamas saying doesn’t conflict with their charter, at all.

And yet Hamas has said, and EvilHamster cited it, that their campaign platform was only for the next four years and that they still hold to their genocidal ambitions.

Moreoever, as we seem to have agreed (which is why I’m confused that you’re still arguing) the Palestinian government has a history of saying one thing and then writing another, when the verbal statements are the real ones to be acted upon. Why, then, cleave to the written language?

Fair enough. If you want to hold them to it, more power to you. I thought you were attempting to use it to refute my charges that Hamas has not changed its stripes.

You know, everyone says that, but I’ve yet to get away with it. Not once.

Dude still owes me a frellin’ [thread=293780]apology[/thread].

Well, to be fair, apologizing for insults, especially outrageous slanders like that, takes honesty, integrity, and honor. So, Sevasty being Sevasty, it’s really not that surprising that he lied about you and then never retracted his slander.

In addition, seeing your thread reminded me of this thread. It seems that lying about Jews and/or Israel (among other things) is a passtime for Sevasty. I wonder why…

I noticed Sevastopol never comes to his pittings.

He probably is extremely uncomfortable to open up and get personal with strangers. He probably believes in detachment. He probably seriously believes that his detached musings are wise and intelligent, while people reacting to them on a personal level are simply incoherent passionate fools.