How do people put up with being married w children?

[msmith537]

Here's a relatively simple question with probably a complex answer:

How do people put up with being married with children?


Obviously from the divorce rates, many people can't. Many people who have the means distance themselves from it with au pairs, boarding schools, etc.

I like the idea of having a family, but really it seems like a cross between a second full time job you can never quit and having roomates 30 years younger than you for the next 20 years.

[SkeptiJess]

Well... in many ways it is a lot like having a second full time job you can't quit, or roomates 30 years younger than you for 20 years...

But it's roomates you really like and a second job that's really fulfilling. Most of the time, anyway.

Plus, it's always changing -- it isn't like the same second job, or the same younger roomates for the whole 20 years. The experience of parenting infants is very different from that of parenting teenagers. So, when you occasionally find yourself in a parenting place that you aren't that crazy about you can ride it out and hope that the next stage will be more to your liking.

And, as I said, even when your kids are pissing you off, you still love them.

As for being married throughout the parenting -- I found it very helpful to have a co-parent. Someone to support me through the hard patches and to be proud with me through the good patches.

[Lissa]

The being married part can be a lot of fun if you marry someone who is your best friend.

As for the "with children" part, it beats the hell out of me. I've never understood the allure, though people keep telling me that I don't know what I'm missing and I'll deeply regret not having kids. (Oddly enough, the ones who are most insistant that I should have children are also the ones who are the most miserable in their own lives.)

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by msmith537

I like the idea of having a family, but really it seems like a cross between a second full time job you can never quit and having roomates 30 years younger than you for the next 20 years.

Geez, I find it tremendously fun.

To me, your question is essentially equivalent to "How can people stand to have fun?" I quite honestly enjoy my wife and kid far, far more than I ever enjoyed being single. It's not even a close call, actually, because "fun" does not really describe how great it makes me feel. I find it incomprehensible that anybody would not want the same thing, though of course, people have to make their own decisions and all that.

When my daughter's face lights up when I get home, that's the best feeling I've ever had in my life. No other experience I could possibly have would be that good.

[robardin]

Because to quote Apu, "There comes a time in every man's life when he asks the question, who will float my corpse down the Ganges?"

[Crafter_Man]

My wife and I have bee married for over 10 years. We have three children. I have to admit, we're not still together because of "deep love" or whatever. Yes, there is love, so to speak. But the real reason is that we have figured out how not to drive each other bonkers.

[InternetLegend]

I remember worrying about this when I was pregnant with my first child. I don't like sharing living space and I've always thought it was a miracle that I could stand to live with Mr. Legend. However, after the baby was born, I realized that this wasn't just a roommate I couldn't kick out for 18 years - it was a fascinating tiny little person whose character and habits I was going to be shaping, for better or worse. I also realized that when you've fallen hopelessly, irrationally, and completely in love with someone who is not only utterly dependent on you for her survival but also often reminds you of of yourself and the other people you love, sharing your space with her isn't all that bad.

I went through the same fears with the second one, by the way, with the added worry that, because I loved my first child so very much, there was no way I was going to be able to love another one to that degree. And I didn't really fall in love with her immediately - it wasn't until the second day that I looked at her, met her gaze, and went completely over.

I know that not everyone is lucky enough to feel this way about their kids (or their spouses, for that matter). And on the days when love really isn't enough to make up for the fact that these people are in my house all the damn time, I take comfort in the knowledge that I'm in charge and I can send them to their rooms.

[Freudian Push Up Bra]

I think it's enjoying being part of a family unit and being supported, by both your partner and your children. We're fairly social creatures and having someone to share both yourself with and have that returned is a very fulfilling feeling. As for children, that differs for everyone and I'm not going to pull a Bob55 and pontificate on the base reasons for reproducing, because, as I said, different for everyone. I don't have kids of my own so I can't really describe that bond from a parental point of view, but I read this today and thought it was very fitting. But it's different for everyone.

[pbbth]

I think a lot of the problems that lead to divorce (though not all of them of course) come from people who get married because they got pregnant and didn't really want to marry each other in the first place, or got married, realized they weren't right for one another but by that time they have a child or two and they will try to work it out "for the kids". My parents got married really young, but they dated for a couple of years before they got married and they didn't start having kids for 2 or 3 years after they had been married. They are still married and happy to this day. Granted, there will always be stories of people who got married after 6 weeks and loved deeply and had 7 million kids and can't imagine anything else, but I think those situations are few and far between.

Though I don't ever want children I know I want to be married some day and I know I won't marry anyone I haven't dated for at least 1-2 years. I personally think that divorce should be the cheapest, easiest thing to do in the world. It should take a $50 paper filing fee and a half hour of time at the courthouse. Getting married, on the other hand, should be one of the most difficult things you have ever done. You should have to go through at least 3-6 months of counciling and be required to draw up a prenup. You should be required to really think it through and devote time and energy into preparing for such a huge step in your life. I know not everyone would agree, but FWIW I think a lot of the problems that cause people to be miserable and get a divorce wouldn't be there if they really approached the situation for what it is-a major life change and investment, both emotional and financial.

[Mesquite-oh]

This is going to sound cheese-ball, but here it goes. When I was a single guy, I could not even begin to comprehend the things I could feel as a parent. I didn't have the vocabulary, I didn't have a reference point. Now, I had some amazing experiences as a single guy that I thought could never be topped (you know guy stuff- Paris in fall, Mardi Gras, Spring Break, SuperBowls, cheerleaders) but amazingly, they have been topped on a regular basis by kid stuff. Hearing someone call you Daddy, hearing them sing a song, seeing them in a school play, or just spending an afternoon playing around in the back yard can be one of the best days of your life- and I ain't shittin' you to be dramatic. You got to feel it to know it.

[fessie]

My twins aren't quite 3 so all I can speak of are the very early years.

It helps that small children are, across the board, absolutely beautiful. They're soft, they usually smell good, they give the biggest, bestest hugs and giggle with their whole little bodies. They do cute things morning, noon and night - and, over and over again, you see yourself in them. They have bits and pieces of your looks, talents, temperament.

People are always saying kids are full of "life", and that's true in so many ways - not only are they enthusiastic and whole-hearted, curious and loving, but they give off amazingly good vibes. Wave after wave of positive energy flows from them, from infancy on.

I spent many years as an adult before having kids, and those years were all about me. What I could buy, where I wanted to go, what I wanted to accomplish in my career and as an activist. I accomplished a few things and failed at many others.

Now my life is about two little people - and somehow, it means so much more.

Yesterday was my birthday. They gave me drawings, we went out to dinner, and we wrestled on the floor for a good long time. It was the best birthday ever.



(please note, that's not to say I don't want to run screaming down the street at times - just that the good days are stunning)

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by Lissa

The being married part can be a lot of fun if you marry someone who is your best friend.

As for the "with children" part, it beats the hell out of me. I've never understood the allure, though people keep telling me that I don't know what I'm missing and I'll deeply regret not having kids. (Oddly enough, the ones who are most insistant that I should have children are also the ones who are the most miserable in their own lives.)

Same deal with me - I live with my best friend and we also happen to have great sex together. I can't see us having kids (nor can my husband) though I respect the hell out of people who do. And yes, in our case the people that nag/nagged us the worst about having kids are family members who were either abusive to their own kids or had kids who were out of control and ran roughshod over them. (The latter eventually came back and said, "Nevermind, you were right." Her previous statement was that you don't become a real adult until you have kids; she amended it to saying that you don't age until you have them.)

[Auntbeast]

Oooh, the squishy! My husband and I have been together 12 years or so. We had our first child 15 months ago.

Now there is ample evidence on this board to suggest it ain't been wine and roses with us for a while.

However, we love each other very much, even though we are bad at it sometimes. Even at our darkest moments, imagining a life without each other is a dismal, devastating thought.

Now children? I have a baby that doesn't really cry at all. She is such a good natured kid. Every day she becomes more and more a person. Oh how she can crack me up.

You think that your life was full. You. have. no. idea. Nothing in my life even compares to my daughter being nervous about something and grabbing hold of my leg because I'll protect her. Or her trying to get me to chase her. Or watching her figure out how to drink out of a straw, or shoving bananas in her mouth.

[Dangerosa]

You put up with it because you want it. Because the moments of good usually way better than stepping on a Lego. Because you love your kids and your spouse and you made a committment to do it, so even if there are days you want to run away, you can't - not without hurting the people you love. Because you enjoy it (most of the time). Because kids and spouses grow and change - but are people that you are tied to in an incredibly special way.

Don't get married and have kids because you "like the idea of a family." Because you are right, they are roommates you can't get rid of and a second job. But, if you are happy, its roommates you seldom want to get rid of and a second job you generally love.

I have an acquaintence who, after three kids, left her kids and her husband and said "I can't put up with this anymore." It happens and its hellish for everyone. There are days I understand where she was coming from - but I could never cause that much pain to my kids - so I get through those days (sometimes with kids in front of the TV and a book in my room - mine are old enough to give me space) and move onto the next day - which is always better.

[LavenderBlue]

There are times when I want to run away and start all over again.

Then there are times when I sit on the couch with my daughter and my husband. She looks like him and sounds like and even smells like him when she's been eating blueberry muffins. I love him so I love her. I also love her because she's like the best parts of me got copied into another person. Most of all I suppose I put up with it because at least once a day one of them makes me laugh so hard I cry.

The good times way outnumber the bad so even when she's whining at the top of her lungs while I'm trying to watch Grey's Anatomy I still stick around.

[Shagnasty]

I always wanted kids someday. That was in the highest tiers on my goal list. Now that I have two healthy daughter, 4 years and 4 months, I am sure that I am fulfilled and done. That first year of parenthood made me crack literally. I had to be the single parent of a dramatic baby girl for days or more than a week a time because my wife travels. Daughter number 2 has been much easier so far if you want to call it that. I love having a 4 year old around and it will probably be even easier as she gets older. We can talk and she is very mature for her age by all accounts. It is those babies that are a killer in my eyes. I look at it as a rite a passage to get through the first year.

After they are a little older, they can wipe their own butts and they add interest and conversation to you and your home. You can coach them in many ways as well whereas much of that may have been lost had you not had them.

Rating **** Sucks hard in the beginning and sporadic at times but the benefits are constant and larger than anything else.

Marriage - I was never a person to want a girlfriend just to have one. As a matter of fact, I just don't care about that stuff. My wife just landed in my lap almost literally and we just went from there. The fact that she was good breeding stock never lost my attention. We had good kids and built a nice life between the two of us. Marriage pails in comparison to parenthood or so I tell myself. Your kids are your kids for life but your spouse may be gone tomorrow as countless victims of happy marriages have found out. I don't really understand marriage for people that don't want to build a traditional family. It is merely a legal maneuver built around that goal. People can live and love every day of their being the same way without lawyers and court fees when it fails if they choose.

Rating **

[Quartz]

As someone who is 39 and a single guy and almost certainly going to remain that way, being childless is one of my great regrets. I've held my 5-day old niece and had her slumber in my arms. I watched my nephew, at 15 months, learn to walk backwards and saw the absolute joy and pride in his face. I saw my nephew, again at 15 months, slip and fall on his back, and then try to decide whether to throw a tantrum or not. These memories are incredibly strong. And, despite having known them so briefly, so are my feelings for both of them.

[Bear_Nenno]

I'm with msmtith. I can't imagine having the burden of children. It's fun playing with my neices and nephews and I can love them and be proud of them. But the best part is, at the end of the day, I go home and leave them with my brother.

My wife and I have a agreed to not have children. Do you think we'll regret it later?

[Ukulele Ike]

When your corpses go un-floated down the Ganges, yes.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno

I'm with msmtith. I can't imagine having the burden of children. It's fun playing with my neices and nephews and I can love them and be proud of them. But the best part is, at the end of the day, I go home and leave them with my brother.

My wife and I have a agreed to not have children. Do you think we'll regret it later?

It's difficult to regret something you can't understand.

[Dangerosa]

Originally Posted by Bear_Nenno

I'm with msmtith. I can't imagine having the burden of children. It's fun playing with my neices and nephews and I can love them and be proud of them. But the best part is, at the end of the day, I go home and leave them with my brother.

My wife and I have a agreed to not have children. Do you think we'll regret it later?

I think that any regret you have later can't possibly compare to how it would feel if you had them and regretted that.

There is no return counter for children.

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally Posted by Dangerosa

I think that any regret you have later can't possibly compare to how it would feel if you had them and regretted that.

There is no return counter for children.

I agree! I think there are way too many people who didn't put enough thought into having children.

[jimmmy]

I felt like that a bit - I was scared I wouldn't "bond" or I would want to run out on my kids screaming off into the night.

I didn't count on loving my son - that was the part I wasn't seeing - you'd die for your kids once you know them-- not some imaginary Cartman-Gingerkid-DennistheMennis you conjure theoretically in your mind now - but a real life baby you will hold in your arms- who in a year or two will say cute stuff, think of you as Superman/Batman all rolled into one, and that love & bond grows stronger as they become less cute but more "people" -I have found. They love you & you love them so much so that when the times come that you want to run out on them screaming out into the night (and it still might) It will be very fleeting, brief and you would never do it IRL.

[sunstone]

Very simply, it means living your life with love.

[dangermom]

Well, I agree with a lot that's been said above, and I'm not going to write a novel or anything about it. But, being married and having children is the most fun I've ever had. Yeah, it's a lot of work and sometimes I want to scream, but I couldn't live without these people who are infinitely precious to me, almost endlessly interesting, and so much fun. My husband can crack me up like no one else--and he can tell when I'm at the end of my rope and he always rescues me. I can just watch my 3-yo and the curve of her cheek and the way she runs for hours. Doing stuff with my 6-yo and seeing how she thinks is just so much fun. Once your kid is born, you discover that you can't live without her, and that's that.

I liked being single and all, and I had fun, but I really have to say that my life is better now, and has improved almost every year for the most part. I have more to live for, or something.

[Voyager]

For the being married part - isn't marrying, with the possibiltity of becoming unmarried, better than never marrying, which makes it a certainty? I happen to think a team of two is stronger than one.

As for kids - I wonder if the divorce rate for people with kids is higher or lower than that for those without. Yeah, there are things to put up with, but that's living. You have to put up with crap at work, but you still get a job. You put up with crap in college, but you still go. Life is all about putting up with stuff.

But the rewards are fantastic. There is nothing like holding your baby for the first time. That's a love deeper than any other - genetically programmed into us, of course, but still there. I'm really glad I experienced it. Then there are all the times your kids do something wonderful and unexpected - even better when you see some of yourself in them. I could give you lots of examples, but I'd be bragging about my kids.

I certainly respect the decision to not have kids, but I can still feel a bit sorry for people who haven't had the experience, for the good far outweighs the bad.
As for floating down the Ganges, my daughter spent five months helping take care of my father-in-law after my mother-in-law died, when my wife was unable to fly. She and her boyfriend gave him comfort, helped him clean out the house, and helped him move. Maybe you could pay people to do all that, but it's not the same.

[dangermom]

Just a little bit about the "hard work" aspect; as we all know, very little worthwhile is easy. When you coast through life without responsibility or work, you don't generally get much to show for it. And when you work hard at something difficult, the rewards are often great. That's how life goes, and that's how marriage and parenthood generally go--same as everything else.

Of course, you can work terrifically hard and have it all blow up in your face, too.

[Plan B]

I look at it as a trade rather than a sacrifice. If I didn't have kids I'd be busy this weekend but I'd be doing different things. I genuinely enjoy the kid stuff. Lots of it.

[dangermom]

Hm, I'm posting too much. But I forgot to say what my husband wanted me to quote him on: "Coming home to a family that loves you is the greatest feeling around." This is from a man who just spent 3 days on his own while we went on a trip--he doesn't much like coming home to an empty house.

We went down to visit my college roommate for a few days; she has 3 boys and I have 2 girls, and they love each other. One thing we did was attend their town's Christmas parade, which 2 of the boys were in. I like parades well enough--I like marching bands and vintage cars and goofy floats, but I enjoyed it about 10 times more because I could watch my kids, who had never been to a parade and were utterly thrilled. They now think that life in the South Bay is absolute paradise, since they went to the beach, played on the world's greatest playground (I've never seen anything like it, it was amazing), and saw a parade.

[fessie]

Originally Posted by dangermom

Just a little bit about the "hard work" aspect; as we all know, very little worthwhile is easy. When you coast through life without responsibility or work, you don't generally get much to show for it. And when you work hard at something difficult, the rewards are often great. That's how life goes, and that's how marriage and parenthood generally go--same as everything else.

Of course, you can work terrifically hard and have it all blow up in your face, too.

That is so beautifully put, and so true.

[Lissa]

I think that the reason why having kids ruins some marriages is because the people had kids because you're "supposed to" rather than because they actually wanted children. They liked the idea of having children, but didn't really stop to consider all of the effort that you have to put into raising them.

[RickJay]

Originally Posted by Lissa

I think that the reason why having kids ruins some marriages is because the people had kids because you're "supposed to" rather than because they actually wanted children. They liked the idea of having children, but didn't really stop to consider all of the effort that you have to put into raising them.

Are there really a lot of marriages ruined BY having children, or d'ya think maybe the marriage was on the road to ruin anyway?

[Hello Again]

IANASociologist, but I imagine that children have a way of bringing out latent problems in the marriage -- different approaches to finance or life goals -- in a particularly intense way. Without the added stress of being completely responsible for a small human being, the marriage might have kept on keepin' on, even if maybe it wasn't the greatest.

Just an observation based on people I've observed in my life.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by Lissa

I think that the reason why having kids ruins some marriages is because the people had kids because you're "supposed to" rather than because they actually wanted children. They liked the idea of having children, but didn't really stop to consider all of the effort that you have to put into raising them.

I don't know if kids ruin marriages, but I think you're right about people having kids because they think they're supposed to. Most people do things because that's what they're supposed to do - go to college, graduate and find a job, settle down and get married in a few years, have kids a few years after that.

I think that's fine, except if they aren't really ready or can't dedicate themselves to the responsibility that's where they encounter problems. Like one partner gets pissed off because the other goes out partying at night, or they feel resentment because they have to give up things like career or social life. Or even worse, I know guys who got married and had kids simply to stroke their ego. They had no intention of taking part in raising the kids or even being faithful to their wife.

I think the people best in a position to get married and raise a family are 1) people who have gotten all the self-indulgent partying/substance abuse/womanizing stuff out of the way, are settled into their carer and are ready to settle down and 2) naturally mature and responsible people who never had any interest in that kind of stuff anyway. And in either case, it has to be with the right person. It's the people in the middle who "worried that they settled" or "are with the wrong person" or feel they made sacrifices instead of choices who IMHO will run into problems. They will feel the tension of second-guessed decisions and competing desires and incentives until something snaps (ie they have an affair or go out for a pack of smokes and never come back).

[Hilarity N. Suze]

Originally Posted by msmith537

Here's a relatively simple question with probably a complex answer:

How do people put up with being married with children?

...

I think you get some hormonal thing that makes you think it's all great. Because intellectually I look at my life and think I, being extremely selfish and territorial and needing my own space and lots of solititude, should have stayed single. But there is no other way my kids could have come to be who they are and it's impossible to imagine a world without them so there is a sense of inevitability about it all.

[Ruby]

There seems to be a lot of "wine and roses" about parenting in this thread. It may be my particular bias, but I see a _lot_ of harried mothers out with their 3.2 children who are, if not literally screaming at their kids, they are using various tones of hushed anger all. the. time! Where does all this parental anger and frustration come from if this is such a fullfilling job?

On the other hand, I have one friend who is a stay-at-home mom and home schools her 12, 8, and 6 year olds. She is an amazing woman who truly does enjoy the company of her children most of the time. In my experience, she's the rare exception and not the rule.

[nivlac]

How do people put up with being married w children?
As in anything you get into in life, the plusses outweigh the minuses. Sure, there are times when you are pissed off at each other and the kids drive you crazy. But, man, all that becomes inconsequential when you find a companion and lover for life with whom you can share the everyday ups and downs of our short mortal existence. The children have brought much more joy than I could have imagined. I cannot even recall the details of the tough times anymore, such as getting through illnesses and other temporary setbacks. Having said all this, I do recommend living in a big house where everyone can have their own space. That really helps!

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by Ruby

There seems to be a lot of "wine and roses" about parenting in this thread. It may be my particular bias, but I see a _lot_ of harried mothers out with their 3.2 children who are, if not literally screaming at their kids, they are using various tones of hushed anger all. the. time! Where does all this parental anger and frustration come from if this is such a fullfilling job?

I have to agree with you. Sure they're cute when they're small, but like all creatures, they get bigger and want to do their own thing. The idea of getting into shouting matches and power struggles with a 4-18 year old does not seem particularly fullfilling to me.

[fessie]

Originally Posted by Ruby

There seems to be a lot of "wine and roses" about parenting in this thread. It may be my particular bias, but I see a _lot_ of harried mothers out with their 3.2 children who are, if not literally screaming at their kids, they are using various tones of hushed anger all. the. time! Where does all this parental anger and frustration come from if this is such a fullfilling job?

Look at how he framed the question - the gist of the answers isn't "It's a wonderfully fulfilling job with no downside." We're just saying the good outweighs the bad. Technically that only means 4 good days out of 7. Ask me how crappy it CAN be, and you'll get an entirely different answer.

Also, when you see kids out in public you're not necessarily getting an accurate picture of their behavior at home, or overall.

The number one factor is tired/hungry children. Did Mom have to drag them out, despite the fact that it's naptime/they haven't eaten a decent lunch/she has a headache, because she's completely out of milk & bread? Kids are not like adults - when they're tired or hungry, they can turn into little monsters and there's no talking them out of it.

When I'm out with my kids, we usually get a lot of friendly smiles, particularly from older ladies who're no doubt thinking of their own adored grandchildren. But there have definitely been times when I've been that mother who's had it up to ^ and is fighting the urge to go postal. Definitely.

[jimmmy]

I'd also point out 1 screaming Mom outweighs in your mind the 3-4 unremarkable ones you passed earlier

[Chotii]

I have a different answer, actually. And I base it on a time when I asked my husband how he could put up with X and Y about me. And his answer?

"I'm not 'putting up with them'. Because they don't bother me like they do you."

There are days I "put up" with my kids. And my husband. I'm sure they feel the same way about me. There are lots and lots of days when I'm a happy person. But I do not, in general, perceive myself as "putting up with being married with children". I *choose* to be married. I choose to stay with my children. I'm not "putting up with them", because they dn't bother me to the degree - even on the worst of days - that I would describe my life choices that way.

Possibly, somebody else might see me speaking in tones of hushed anger to my children in public places. But these same people would probably feel justified in a screaming rant in the BBQ pit about children like mine running rampant, and me being a careless mother who allows her children to act like little monsters, and where is society going, and some people shouldn't be allowed to have children, and on and on. I don't think it's fair to expect the eternally-cheerful June Cleaver and the Von Trapp children. If I'm speaking in hushed or less-than-hushed anger, it's because my children are *not* behaving in an acceptable manner, and I'm trying to impose some ettiquette on them. Can't have it both ways, I'm afraid.

This in no way implies I am "putting up with them" in general. Only that I won't put up with a certain behavior at that moment in time.

[dangermom]

Excellent stuff, [b]Chotii[b]. I agree.

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by RickJay

Are there really a lot of marriages ruined BY having children, or d'ya think maybe the marriage was on the road to ruin anyway?

Oh, yeah, sure. I didn't mean to imply everything was hunky-dorry until the kids came along. I just think a lot of people don't put a lot of thought into how much of a lifestyle change that having children and raising them properly entails.

[kunilou]

Originally Posted by pbbth

Granted, there will always be stories of people who got married after 6 weeks and loved deeply and had 7 million kids and can't imagine anything else, but I think those situations are few and far between.

Welcome to the land of few and far between.

Engaged six weeks after we met, married for 26 years and three children.

I've had a fulfilling and reasonably successful career. I have friends who would gladly donate a kidney if I needed one. But I can tell you with complete honesty that there's no relationship that even comes close to the one I've had with my wife, and there's no moment of my career that compares with watching my children take their first steps, or graduate from high school.

Sure there are times when my wife and I would cheerfully agree to divorce -- after we had taken turns beating the kids to death. There's a lot of emotion in life, and sometimes it comes out in weird ways. But overall, it's more than four good days out of seven. It's more like 360 good days and five really crappy ones.

[Ruby]

Originally Posted by Chotii

<snip>Possibly, somebody else might see me speaking in tones of hushed anger to my children in public places. But these same people would probably feel justified in a screaming rant in the BBQ pit about children like mine running rampant, and me being a careless mother who allows her children to act like little monsters, and where is society going, and some people shouldn't be allowed to have children, and on and on. I don't think it's fair to expect the eternally-cheerful June Cleaver and the Von Trapp children. If I'm speaking in hushed or less-than-hushed anger, it's because my children are *not* behaving in an acceptable manner, and I'm trying to impose some ettiquette on them. Can't have it both ways, I'm afraid.

The mom's I'm referring to are not disciplining their kids. They are angry, angry, angry. Yes, for the strangers in public I only see a snippet of their day. I don't know what little Johnny was doing 10 minutes before, but I see a lot of parents just plain mad at their kids...all the time. I'm not sitting on my high horse here. I _was_ one of those angry parents at one time. Constantly ragging on my stepson, even though his behavior was actually stellar for his age. It wasn't _his_ fault that he wasn't performing up to _my_ standards. It's not something I'm particularly proud of today.

You're also right about children's mis-behavior being pit-worthy. The parents of these children are typically either (1) totally disconnected from reality that they don't even notice that their kids are hell-hounds or (2) are sniping at them so much that the kids have put them on permanent ignore.

jimmmy, you have a very valid point. The patient moms aren't likely to garner my attention in the checkout lane so my opinion is likely skewed.

I just think that many couples are disillusioned about the joys of child-rearing. They have an idea that this little bundle of joy will fix all the troubles in their already-strained relationship and when that doesn't happen, they get mad.

Is it rewarding? Absolutely. Is it easy? Hell no. It's one of the hardest things you'll ever do. Some people simply aren't cut out to be good parents just like some people aren't cut out to be good brain surgeons. The only difference is that the unqualified will never wield a scalpel...

[Zebra]

It reminds me of a joke.

When God made the world, he spent a lot of time making the world beautiful. Putting in forests and mountains. Lakes and and streams and waterfalls. That sort of thing. He was nearly done but he had the area that is now known as Texas left to do and it was late so he decided to wait till the next day to do that part of the world. When he got up, he found that the land was all hard and flat and dried out and it would take a whole day to get this part of the world in to shape. Then he had an idea. "I know" God said "I'll just make some people who will like it this way." And that is how God created Texas and Texans.


Some people just like being married with children.

[si_blakely]

Originally Posted by msmith537

I have to agree with you. Sure they're cute when they're small, but like all creatures, they get bigger and want to do their own thing. The idea of getting into shouting matches and power struggles with a 4-18 year old does not seem particularly fullfilling to me.

I think that TV tends to create a false impression of stroppy teenagers - or maybe we are just lucky. Our 15y.o. daughter has a few strops - often related to that time of the month - but they don't last long. Case in point - she got mad when we said she couldn't go to a "My Chemical Romance" concert with her friends 5 days after having her wisdom tooth removed under a general. She was convinced she could make it, and let us know all about it for a few days. Of course, after the op, she realised that it would not have worked. She was a bit upset when her friends texted her from the concert, but critical of the way they went to the concert with no clear plans for getting home afterwards. Smart kid, but it took a bit of work to instill in her the "we need to know how you are getting there and how you will get home safely" ethic.

And then when we booked tickets for her and two friends to see "Incubus" on her 16th birthday - priceless (but I wasn't allowed to join them - damn).

Swings and round-abouts, but seeing an child develop into an independent smart adult is really great. And you have to take risks - to let them make their own decisions (but give them the tools/skills to make informed choices). I do see heartache in the future (I think all parents do), as they make choices that I don't agree with, but I won't ever stop loving and supporting them.

Si

[Dunderman]

Do you cutesy-wutesies have any idea of how lonely you are making me feel?

[fessie]

Originally Posted by Ruby

The mom's I'm referring to are not disciplining their kids. They are angry, angry, angry. Yes, for the strangers in public I only see a snippet of their day. I don't know what little Johnny was doing 10 minutes before, but I see a lot of parents just plain mad at their kids...all the time. I'm not sitting on my high horse here. I _was_ one of those angry parents at one time. Constantly ragging on my stepson, even though his behavior was actually stellar for his age. It wasn't _his_ fault that he wasn't performing up to _my_ standards. It's not something I'm particularly proud of today..

Given your history, I'd guess your perspective is particularly skewed --- nothing makes a stronger impact on us than watching people who remind us of our own worst behaviors.

Personally, I rarely see "angry" parents as you describe. The grocery store is not a fair sampling ground, since no mother would willingly take 3 small children there. That mom is not on an outing, she's on a deployment and not an easy one.

I don't see so many angry people as just numb. Some of them have kids, plenty do not. It doesn't seem like a pleasant way to go through life.

[mhendo]

I can absolutely understand the attraction of having children, even though my wife and i have made our own decision not to have them. I see my friends with their kids, and its clear what they get out of it. Sure, it's a lot of work, but i can also see that they feel their lives to be more complete and more enjoyable with children.

I like kids myself, but i'm just not interested in doing the whole parenting thing. My wife and i are very happy together, and we really don't want or need the changes that having kids would bring. We discussed all this before we got married.

I guess there's a certain amount of self-centeredness to this, but i don't think that's a bad thing. I think that, in our increasingly crowded world, the absence of my offspring is unlikely to be noticed or lamented, and i don't think anyone should have kids unless they really know that they want them and will take care of them properly. Hell, i tend to agree with Gore Vidal that parenting should be a licensed activity.