SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Round #7: Center Fielders

The Game Room
1

This is the seventh round of voting on the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame. In this round we will be voting on center fielders.

The rules remain the same as before:

  1. Please vote for TEN center fielders who have played major league baseball in North America, not including Negro League play, for which we will have other rounds of voting. You may vote for fewer than ten if you like, but I do ask you name ten if you possibly can. If you vote for more than ten, all names past #10 are discounted. The order you place the players in makes no difference.

  2. Your votes are not restricted by any restriction Cooperstown uses. You may vote for currently active players, players who have just recently retired, or players who eligibility to Cooperstown has passed. In effect you may vote for anyone who has ever played a single game of center field in what we would term “the major leagues” as commencing with the foundation of the National League in 1876. Only players who have already been inducted are ineligible.

  3. The ten players who receive the most votes are immediately inducted into the Hall of Fame.

  4. Although I will provide, in this post, a full list of all center fielders who are in the Hall of Fame, likely candidates, or had careers of significant length and accomplishment, it is an open ballot and you may vote for absolutely anyone you wish. If I miss a really significant name, please make it known.

As per the right fielders’ ballot I have had to use my judgment in ascertaining who is a center fielder, as opposed to right or left. If a big name is missing, please consult the right fielders’ ballot, or they may appear on the left fielders’ ballot, which is next. However, THIS IS AN OPEN BALLOT; THE LIST OF NAMES IS JUST TO HELP YOU. YOU CAN VOTE FOR ANYONE.

  1. Discussion is encouraged but please let some votes gather up first. Detailed discussion of this series of threads may be found here:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477967&page=1

Past votes and results can be found here:

Catchers
First Basemen
Second Basemen
Shortstops
Third Basemen
Right Fielders

Thanks, and happy voting!
Matty Alou
Richie Ashburn
Earl Averill
Ginger Beaumont
Wally Berger
Pete Browning
Brett Butler
Max Carey
Cesar Cedeno
Ty Cobb
Earle Combs
Doc Cramer
Johnny Damon
Eric Davis
Willie Davis
Dominic DiMaggio
Joe DiMaggio
Larry Doby
Hugh Duffy
Lenny Dykstra
Jim Edmonds
Steve Finley
Curt Flood
George Gore
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Billy Hamilton
William “Baby Doll” Jacobson
Andruw Jones
Chet Lemon
Kenny Lofton
Fred Lynn
Garry Maddox
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Willie McGee
Clyde Milan
Lloyd Moseby
Dale Murphy
Dwayne Murphy
Al Oliver
Vada Pinson
Kirby Puckett
Edd Roush
Jimmy Ryan
Cy Seymour
Duke Snider
Tris Speaker
Roy Thomas
George Van Haltren
Lloyd Waner
Devon White
Bernie Williams
Hack Wilson
Mookie Wilson
Willie Wilson
Jimmy Wynn

2

Willie Mays
Joe DiMaggio
Mickey Mantle
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Ty Cobb
Tris Speaker
Duke Snider
Max Carey
Larry Doby
Fred Lynn

3

Hmm. Other than the Big Six, lots of good candidates and very few great candidates.

No-brainers:

Ty Cobb
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Joe DiMaggio
Tris Speaker
Duke Snider

The others:

Ken Griffey, Jr.
Sliding Billy Hamilton – 912 career stolen bases and great defense
Larry Doby – probably four years older than generally believed, and he gets Negro League credit as well

I’m having a lot of trouble with the final spot between Hugh Duffy, Max Carey, Richie Ashburn, Edd Roush, Jim Edmonds, and others…I think I’m going to have to give it to Edmonds.

4

Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Joe DiMaggio
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Ty Cobb
Earle Combs
Tris Speaker
Richie Ashburn
Robin Yount - Left him off SS ballot, but he belongs in our Hall
Billy Hamilton - On base machine and led the league twice in OPS

5

Gadarene, can you explain the Duke Snider love? I don’t mean just from you, I expect he’ll be on many people’s lists, but I don’t get it. I know he was an icon in NY, but his stats, other than Slugging % are good to very good, but not great. Why do people put him up with the greats?

6

I’m sorry, I should have noted Yount.

Robin Yount was elected as a shortstop. Ibelieve he finished eighth in that round of voting, so he’s already in. You can’t be elected twice, so he isn’t an eligible player anymore.

You can make another selection to replace Yount on your ballot if you wish.

7

Apologies, I should have realized that. Please subsitute Larry Doby for Yount. Thanks.

8

Because the Dook was not a compiler, he was a great player, albeit for only a decade or less. Year-to-year, man-to-man, in the 1950s he put up numbers that compare very favorably to Mantle or Mays–and that’s a mighty strong standard. In his early thirties, the Dook lost quite a bit, and really didn’t have a strong end to his career, nor a long end to his career, so his overall stats don’t look so great, but at his (lengthy) peak, he was the best of the best, and that’s a Hall of Famer, in my book.

9

Thanks for the explanation.

10

Brett Butler
Ty Cobb
Joe DiMaggio
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Fred Lynn
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Kirby Puckett
Duke Snider
Tris Speaker

11
  1. Cobb
  2. Mays
  3. Speaker
  4. Mantle
  5. Hack Wilson
  6. Griffey Jr.
  7. Combs
  8. Doby
  9. Puckett
  10. Averill
12

Let me understand, Gonzomax–you don’t think Joe DiMaggio was better than Earl Averill? Please explain.

13

As has been my practice in previous threads, I’ve bolded the names of players I’ve seen live (on TV and/or at the ballpark) while naming earlier stars based on reputation:
Earl Averill – though this list’s first name alphabetically, he was actually my final selection, winning the tiebreaker on the basis of having played for my hometown Indians and still holding many Cleveland club records

Ty Cobb – apparently a miserable human being, but his position atop so many all-time batting categories makes him impossible to omit from my ballot

Joe DiMaggio – though the fact that my opinion of him has dipped after learning that the “Greatest Living Ballplayer” sobriquet with which he insisted on being introduced was possibly bestowed on him by none other than himself, I still have to give “Joltin’ Joe” props for that 56-game hitting streak and his all-around accomplishments

Hugh Duffy – credited with the all-time best single-season average (.438 or .440, depending on which source you believe) in 1894, when he won the Triple Crown

Ken Griffey, Jr. – this ballot is skewing more to “old-timers” than did my previous entries, so I’ll give a nod to the most recent inductee into the 600-homer club as I heave a “what might have been, if not for injuries” sigh

Billy Hamilton – “Sliding Billy” stole over 900 bases (though some of those were extra bags taken on batted balls, as per the rules of the time) and still holds the record for runs in a season (192 in 1894)

Mickey Mantle – even though injuries robbed him of numerous opportunities, he still put up impressive stats, especially in World Series play

Willie Mays – past his prime by the time I began following the game, but clearly deserves to be a unanimous choice (although I grew up in Cleveland, and thus never need to see another replay of “The Catch”)

Tris Speaker – excelled both offensively (still the all-time leader in doubles) and defensively; also won a World Series as a manager

Hack Wilson – though his career was relatively short, I can’t leave the all-time single-season RBI leader (191 in 1930) off my list
Had I grown up elsewhere, I’d likely have replaced Averill with Ashburn or Snider.

14

Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Tris Speaker
Ty Cobb
Joe Dimaggio
Duke Snider
Ken Griffey Jr.
Larry Doby
Jimmy Wynn
Dale Murphy

General comments: There’s a surprising dropoff from #7 on my list (Junior) to #8; frankly there’s another 3-4 guys I could have put at 8-10. Doby gets some credit for a slightly late start because of the color barrier (and was a terrific all-around player), Wynn was underrated because of his ballpark and era, and Murph has the best peak of the players below Griffey.

As for the top ones, yes I think Mantle is the best. Aye, he was a bit injury-prone, and didn’t age well, but nobody, not Mays or Cobb, had as strong an offensive peak. In case someone wants to question the RBIs, choosing 1958 arbitrarily, the guys who hit in front of him in the order for most of the season had on-base percentages like .318, .295, & .329.

I also believe Speaker to be better than Cobb. Cobb had all the steals, the never-say die attitude, and the .400 seasons, but Speaker had the glove and his teammates’ respect, and is surprisingly close in many of the offensive stats.

15

Tris Speaker
Joe DiMaggio
Larry Doby
Kenny Lofton
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Kirby Puckett
Duke Snider
Ken Griffey, Jr.

Ty Cobb

16

Anyone want to make the case for Puckett over Jim Edmonds?

Puckett played only 12 seasons (although he admittedly could have been productive longer if his career hadn’t been injury-shortened); Edmond has 14 seasons and counting. Their top ten full seasons ranked by OPS+:

Edmonds: 170, 160, 158, 149, 146, 137, 137, 129, 123, 123
Puckett: 152, 141, 138, 132, 131, 130, 129, 120, 120, 119

So Edmonds’ three best seasons (in 2004, 2003, and 2002) are better than Puckett’s best (in 1988).

In addition, Edmonds’s numbers are OBP-heavy, which makes them comparatively more valuable than Puckett’s slugging (well, batting average) weighted numbers. Puckett was probably a better baserunner, and Edmonds (though slightly overrated) is almost certainly a much better fielder.

I’m not seeing the argument for Kirby, other than that catch he made in 1991.

17

How’s Edmonds’ smile?

18

Kirby’s got him there. Also in the wife-beating category.

19

My choices:

Ty Cobb
Joe DiMaggio
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Tris Speaker
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Billy Hamilton
Hugh Duffy
Duke Snider
Earl Averill

20

shit .I had him on my first list and then made a new one when I lost it. Joltin Joe belongs. I will fix later.