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Old 08-12-2009, 07:16 PM
Gfactor Gfactor is offline
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What is Pit-worthy?

First a couple of preliminaries:

Q. What is this thread about?

A. I want to start a dialogue about what sorts of threads belong in the Pit. I've got my own ideas, but I just work here. I'd like to get a feel for the opinions of those who read and post in the Pit. So I thought I'd ask them.

Q. Why did you start it?

A. Because I want to know what the folks that use the Pit think. This is an area in which I can make changes, and I'm looking for input on what people want.

Q. Why is this in the Pit if its a poll about one of the board's forums?

A. Being me has its privileges. Also, I'm most interested in the opinions of those who actually visit and post in the Pit, as opposed to the opinions of all board visitors. This is the best way to reach that audience.

Q. Can I post in this thread about how you did x to poster y and I hate you for it?

A. Please don't. I want to keep this thread focused on the concept of pit-worthiness.

Q. Can I post in this thread about what I think about the Pit rules that are unrelated to what sorts of threads go in the Pit?

A. Please don't. I want to keep this thread focused on the concept of pit-worthiness.

Q. Can I post in this thread about how I reported a thread and you didn't move it? Can I post in this thread about how you moved a thread that I thought should have stayed?

A. Feel free. While I'm unlikely to revisit such a decision here, past practices are certainly relevant to the discussion. I'm more interested in what folks think I ought to do in the future, but examples will be helpful.

Q. You're making new rules!

A. That's not even a question. Besides, you're wrong. I'm asking for input about a decision I already have to make. I'm not proposing any new rules.

Q. How long do you plan to leave this thread open?

A. Indefinitely. I'll keep it stickied and leave it open as long is it remains useful.

___________________________________________
Let me flesh this out. I'd like input on the following issues:

1. What is the Pit for?

2. What sorts of threads do not belong here?

3. What sorts of thread belong here exclusively?

4. Typology of threads. Some of the distinctions that come up include joke and parody threads vs. serious rants; recreational outrage vs. debatable vitriol; blogging vs. ranting; topical exclusion (politics and computer-related threads are often mentioned in this context). Which of these are consistent with the purpose of the Pit. Which of these distinctions are important? Should such determination be based on the content (no parody threads) or expected outcome (only parody threads that are likely to piss someone off)?

5. Do you care? I'd also like to get a sense of how many people have a strong preference about these things. If you don't care, feel free to post that. For once, it's not threadshitting.

You don't have to respond directly to any of the listed questions. But that's the sort of information I'm looking for.

The current thread description says: "For rants about the world or beefs with another poster."

And the Rules say:
Quote:
The BBQ Pit is the forum for rants about the outside world or quarrels between posters - often the first turns into the second. . . .

Rants should be suitable for the Pit

Cutesy, "I Pit puppies for being sooo cute!" non-Pittings are not welcome here. Put them in MPSIMS. Rants which are genuine but simply too tepid or mundane for the Pit will be moved or closed as we see fit. Lastly, rants about personal trauma that are expected to generate mostly supportive, sympathetic responses will likely be moved to MPSIMS. This is not a commentary on the seriousness of said life events, merely on the best forum for that type of thread.

The Pit is not your personal diary

The Pit isn't Cranks' Corner or group therapy. Posters who glut the forum with threads or consistently hijack the threads of others may be subject to moderator action. No, there isn't a magic number of threads or posts per day that are acceptable. (And if you're even asking, you probably need a LiveJournal.)
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=507985


Here are three recent threads that talk about some of this stuff:

RO: ?

I Pit all the MPSIMS tards who are currently drowning the Pit in boring crap

Pissed off? Tired of all the passionless losers on this MB? This one's for you!
  #2  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:45 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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Eh. It's always going to be a judgment call. What sends me in a fit of rage may not even be a blip on your radar, and vice-versa. Cutesy and mundane can get shifted to MPSIMS with little problem. If the outrage is sufficient, move it back. But some RO is going to always exist in the Pit, no matter how much Giraffe, Fenris and others hate it, if only because we all have different thresholds of rage, concern and caring. Remember the difference between tragedy and comedy, guys. Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when Rand Rover falls into an open sewer and drowns.
  #3  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:01 PM
BigT BigT is offline
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Post I'm somewhat indirectly responding to.

It seems to make more sense to respond in here.

My problem with RO is that it isn't as well defined as I thought. I thought it was anything you get mad about that doesn't directly effect you in any way.

I don't believe that anything that is newsworthy for its shock value can be considered mundane, but, apparently, at least two people disagree with me.

I really don't care what forum any post is in. I do care that posts don't get deleted if there are enough people that want to read it. I would love it if things could be put into a subforum that could be hidden from the people who don't like it, but I don't think that is ever going to happen.
  #4  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:30 PM
Rand Rover Rand Rover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfactor View Post
5. Do you care? I'd also like to get a sense of how many people have a strong preference about these things. If you don't care, feel free to post that.
that

/har har
  #5  
Old 08-12-2009, 09:40 PM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfactor View Post
Let me flesh this out. I'd like input on the following issues:
Thanks for this, Gfactor. And no, I'm not sucking up.

My saying you're the greatest mod we've ever had is in no way currying favor

1. What is the Pit for?

I think it's for rants. That covers a wide range of topical material, but I think its tree is binary in nature. In other words, we can say that (A) there are rants about some member or member's post or thread (attack threads within the SDMB), and then (B) there are rants about things unrelated to the board's membership. Under (B) there are (1) rants about the board itself, and (2) rants about stuff outside the board. Under (A) there are (1) rants about what someone said or how they said it and (2) rants about a person's general behavior — like so-and-so is a jerk, or a troll, or whatever. Under (B1) there are (a) rants about the board's performance, speed, or responsiveness, and (b) rants about the board as a community, the direction it's headed, or the look and feel of the site. Under (B2) there are (a) rants about politics, religion, and current event type things, the last one being what we call "RO", and (b) there are rants about everything from pi being irrational to American Idol sucks. Under (A1) there are (a) redirections from Great Debates or Cafe Society or something that got moved here because they became heated, and there are (b) original OPs, sometimes quoting someone, and sometimes just going straight for the jugular, with hopefully a link.

I think it's also for parodies. I suspect this will be controversial, and I naturally cannot provide a cite, but I believe that I am the member who began the custom of writing parody OPs and putting them in the Pit. I guess this could be either verified or debunked by some kind of search, but damned if I'm going to subject myself to that. I think parodies have a place here, because they are a rant, but just a different kind of rant. They are more dry. More cold. More biting. Based on the binary tree I proposed above, they fall under (A1b). They are quotes of a sort — that is, they poke fun at something someone has said. They are basically insulting, and so they don't belong anywhere else. Which leads me to...

I think it's also for insults. It's the only forum in which we can insult anyone from Captain Crunch to Guinastasia. We can call each other a bitch, an attention whore, a tendrillar penis, or a self-absorded dick head. We can curse, so long as it is not overmuch, and is within the guidelines stickied here. It just wouldn't be the Pit at all if insults weren't allowed in it. The same goes for rants. I guess you could say that parodies aren't necessary and therefore should be prohibited. But a really good parody can be the most insulting kind of post possible. It mimics the person's style and prose. It makes the person who is parodied look like an idiot. Maybe just disallow shitty parodies, and use your own judgment about that.

Finally, I'd like to say that, even though it is not necessarily derived from any of the above, I'd like to see the Pit as a place for vigorous debates, where insults are allowed, but the thread participants can insult back. A debator, for example, can post, "You're a liar. You've completely misrepresented me..." and so on. The thing is, with all due respect to Great Debates and the mods there, the Pit has seen some of the best debates on the board. It happens with some frequency, actually. The thread starts out as a rant about racism, say, and it ends up being a five-page debate about causes for the War of Northern Aggression. That kind of thing. I'd like to see that sort of debate become a stated and sanctioned part of Pit culture de jure, as it already is so de facto.

2. What sorts of threads do not belong here?

Stupid stuff, number one. (That's your judgment call.) Posts that, by there very nature, will elicit sympathetic responses — whether positive or negative. So, RO goes the way of "My cat died, and I feel lonely". Off to MPSIMS. I think RO threads do not belong here.

3. What sorts of thread belong here exclusively?

Rants. Parodies. Insults. No holds (well, few anyway) barred debates. I would also add to this the mini-rants threads that restart every so often. They keep down the number of threads, and contain some pretty good rants.

4. Typology of threads. Some of the distinctions that come up include joke and parody threads vs. serious rants; recreational outrage vs. debatable vitriol; blogging vs. ranting; topical exclusion (politics and computer-related threads are often mentioned in this context). Which of these are consistent with the purpose of the Pit. Which of these distinctions are important? Should such determination be based on the content (no parody threads) or expected outcome (only parody threads that are likely to piss someone off)?

I think it is a mistake to group together joke and parody threads in opposition to "serious rants". A well written parody is no joke. And although it might be amusing, it can have far more teeth in it than a "serious rant". I don't think there should be any topical exclusions. Let people rant about their computer if they want to, or about a band they hate, or about anything in their own lives. But not some newspaper article about a tragic crime or some Hitlerian person whom everyone hates. They only exception I would make to that is that the thread make fun of the tragedy. It should be cruel. Not sympathetic with the "victim" or the "dick head".

For example, a thread about a political event that mocks the participants or a thread that makes fun of a criminal should be acceptable. But a thread about a political event that will be filled with nothing but you-betchas or a crime thread with everybody trying to outdo each other's outrage, should be sent off to MPSIMS.

5. Do you care? I'd also like to get a sense of how many people have a strong preference about these things. If you don't care, feel free to post that. For once, it's not threadshitting.

I do care. I've been here a long time. I've posted probably mostly in Great Debates if you take a full count over the entirety of my tenure. But the Pit is probably a close second: one, because I get pitted on a fairly regular basis (although that has subsided considerably lately), and two, because I like the liveliness of exchanges. I like the snark. I like the really good Pit posts, which are often brief, but to the point. And I like long, meandering Pit posts of the type that a person angered or tormented about a recent event in his own life might write.

Quote:
You don't have to respond directly to any of the listed questions. But that's the sort of information I'm looking for.
Oh shit. You know, you could have started with that. Jesus, my wrists are sore...
  #6  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:21 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Well, I'd like the whole "PIT a Poster" thing to go away. Few other boards allow this. Already you have restricted (to an extent) PITing of Staff. This gives an impression of special treatment. But if no poster could be personally PITed, then it'd be unambiguously fair.

I love a good rant, btw.
This:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...iet+Pepsi+Jazz
by Euthanasiast about Diet Pepsi, Jazz was one of the funniest rants I have ever read.
  #7  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gfactor View Post
1. What is the Pit for?
Outrage--personal outrage.

Not RO, where you're engaged in competitive outrage about something that doesn't affect you at all (maybe start a new "RO Game" type thread where those who like such things can have outrage one-upsmanship in a sports-like environment) but real personal pissedoffedness.

Preferably of the funny variety.

So pit threads of old like "I just spilled Kool-Aide over my new white sweater" done to (say) Dr. Seuss or "That sonofabitch cut me off in traffic! I hope he dies. In a fire!" would be fine here.

It's personal outrage that matters. It doesn't matter if the subject matter is insignificant (I cut my finger on the lid of this can of pineapples!) it's that you're honestly pissed and (if possible) express it in a funny or legitimately angry way.

Flaming is personal outrage at another poster, so it goes here too.

Quote:
2. What sorts of threads do not belong here?
Get politics the fuck out of here. I'm gonna lose this fight--I'm in a tiny minority, but dammit, if you can't express your political opinions in a GD-acceptible fashion (and remember, curse words are just fine in GD), then shut up.

As I write this (wrote, actually-I started a few hours back and forgot to hit "submit") 8 of the first 10 threads in the Pit are 100% political. We need a politics only forum where all this shit can go, but failing that, it belongs in GD. The Reeder style "< link > THIS SUCKS" is dead, replaced by "< Link > I hate these people! They're so dumb! (and granted, often they are)". Frame it as a debate and put it in GD or it's just RO, political RO, but RO.

Hell, if it MUST go here, sticky a "Politics" thread in the Pit where everyone can go to vent their 15 minutes of daily/weekly political outrage about the cause-du-jour and then create a new one ever month--like the "mini-rants" thread, only for politics. 8 outta 10 threads is slightly above average, but not much and we don't need that shit here AND in GD crowding out everything else.


Quote:
4. Typology of threads. Some of the distinctions that come up include joke and parody threads
Let's define our terms:

Joke threads came (under Lynn's rules) to mean "Funny threads including those of the "personal outrage" variety". Let's call those "funny threads" as distinct from "Who knows a dirty joke?" threads.

Funny personal outrage threads are 100% fine IMO

Joke threads (even dirty jokes) go in MPSIMS.

Parody threads that are attacks on other posters/board trends go here--because otherwise how can the people being parodied respond?

Quote:
debatable vitriol
Like "I have a general hatred for child molestors"?

Fuck that--that's just RO writ broadly. The only two possible responses are "I hate them more!"/"Me too! Aren't we good people?" or trolling responses like "I lurvs little gurls!"


Quote:
blogging
Unless you're personally pissed off (in which case, it's a rant) never.

Quote:
5. Do you care? I'd also like to get a sense of how many people have a strong preference about these things. If you don't care, feel free to post that. For once, it's not threadshitting.
Yes-this isn't a "I remember the good old days through rose-colored glasses" thing I'm about to say but the pit used to be substantially different. Go to your user CP and set your "Default Thread Age Cut Off" to the "all threads" option and then go look at the early days of the Pit.

You can argue (I wouldn't but someone could) that the current "All politics and RO" pit of today is better or worse. You can't argue that the tone/culture of the Pit back then was substantially different.

You can't recapture the past and I don't think we should try--but I do think ditching RO back to MPSIMS and Politics to GD (or it's own goddamn forum--after 9 years of posters bitching, why is it so hard for the Dope to try a politics GD subforum and ditch it if it doesn't work out?) and encouraging more personal outrage would really liven up the forum.

And thanks for starting the thread.

Last edited by Fenris; 08-12-2009 at 10:57 PM.
  #8  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:17 PM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Fenris, you make some really good points, almost all of which I agree with. And I know your heels are dug in about politics threads. And I can see where some of the posts should be handled in GD. Maybe even most of them. But lots of rants are about public people. And politicians are public people. I do like your "affects me personally" take on the whole thing. But I wouldn't exclude politics from that. Someone might want to rant about Congress and the new marriage penalty (twice as bad as the old one). It seems to me that that sort of rant goes here, even though it is political in nature.
  #9  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:24 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Fair enough Lib--I don't agree (debate the new marriage penalty, don't rant about it), but it's a reasonable point.

That said when 18 of the first 25 Pit threads are political, it bespeaks the need for a "political mini-rants" thread so that whatever the outrage-of-the-minute is can be dealt with in one big thread and not drown everything else out.

Or the much longed for"All Politics, All The Time" forum where ALL political stuff goes--just label your thread title with "Debate" or "Rant" and have at it.
  #10  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:25 PM
Smeghead Smeghead is offline
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I can stir myself from apathy to make the following two comments:

1. Political threads are boring and stupid. Doubly so in the Pit. Everyone who participates already has their established positions, nobody changes their minds, and it's never anything more than "you're dumb!" "No you are!" ad infinitum.

2. Threads need to be better. This applies board-wide, but moreso in the Pit. Most threads are boring and stupid. All of you people, be better at being interesting. I can't - I've tried. It's up to you.
  #11  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:29 PM
Jamaika a jamaikaiaké Jamaika a jamaikaiaké is offline
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I come here for the debates. They are generally better than in GD. Please don't remove the best debates from here. I think people's assumptions are really challenged here. Often people post rants and really don't expect it when post #2 disagrees with their entire premise (They don't agree that my Sow-Worker is a jerky-jerk? Really? Maybe I'm the jerky-jerk? Well, I never!). I like this aspect of the Pit.
  #12  
Old 08-13-2009, 03:55 AM
mhendo mhendo is online now
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As someone who probably spends more time in The Pit than anywhere else, i think i agree with the majority of Lib's post.

I can see where Fenris is coming from with the politics thing, but i've had plenty of political debates in The Pit that were, as Lib suggested, replete with both well-formulated arguments and fierce invective. And there are times when the latter is essential, when retards simply refuse to recognize the validity and accuracy of my arguments and need to be told to fuck right off.

Seriously, though, there are people here who are constantly dishonest in their debating, and who mask the rudeness of their mendacity with a politeness of language and phrasing. If we are going to remove politics from The Pit, so that we can no longer call these people assholes and liars, then the only reasonable alternative is to have some sort of greater oversight in GD, whereby people who blatantly misrepresent the facts or other people's arguments are taken to task for it and told to knock it off. And that's not really going to be feasible, or even desirable, so i think there's still a place for politics in The Pit.

Of course, there's also the question of what constitutes a "political" thread. Clearly, some screed about Palin, or about someone criticizing Palin, or about Obama, or about someone criticizing Obama, is a political topic. But what about something like abortion, gun control, police abuse of power, the death penalty, etc., etc., etc. These topics, while not narrowly about politicians and political parties, are political in both the general sense of affecting all our lives, and in the more specific sense of being key issues when elections come around.

Of course, one issue with The Pit (whether it's a problem will depend on your personal perspective), is that, while it does engender some excellent debates, those can sometimes have the effect of narrowing down the thread to two or three committed debaters, and leaving everyone else feeling bored or marginalized. The result, then, is that people no longer feel that the thread is fun, and it either dies or just goes on as a relatively small conversation between a few people.

In pointing this out, i'm not pointing fingers at other people. I know for a fact that i've been the culprit on more than a few occasions in such threads, debating on and on with one or two others while everyone else abandons the thread. The question, i guess, is whether people feel that this is a bad thing, or whether it's simply unavoidable in some situations. After all, some GD threads end up the same way.

Anyway, i'm also fully on board with the idea of keeping silly RO threads, and obvious, uncontroversial crap ("Child rapists are bad!!!") out of The Pit.

One final thing: When deciding to put a thread in The Pit, my criteria has often been not simply whether i'm actually pitting someone, or angry at someone or something. I have also tended to look at the subject matter itself, and to make a determination based on whether or not i think it will elicit strong emotions and hostile debate. If it;s something that gets me angry, but that i think everyone will agree about, i generally put it in MPSIMS. But if think that some people will agree with me, while others will have a completely contrary position, i'll probably put it in The Pit.
  #13  
Old 08-13-2009, 04:12 AM
MOIDALIZE MOIDALIZE is offline
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Perhaps no threads should start in the Pit at all, but should only be moved here from the other forums when it's clear to the mods that the thread should be here.
  #14  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:16 AM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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A question concerning the monthly Mini-Rant thread in the Pit.

Shouldn't a mini-rant by definition be in MPSIMS?

Last edited by aldiboronti; 08-13-2009 at 07:17 AM.
  #15  
Old 08-13-2009, 08:41 AM
Quartz Quartz is offline
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I disagree with the comment about politics needing to be in GD. Firstly, I think the actions of politicians should be fair game (British MPs, anyone?). Secondly, policies are not abstract things; they do impact people. And if you're impacted by it, why shouldn't you be allowed to vent about it?
  #16  
Old 08-13-2009, 10:56 AM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldiboronti View Post
A question concerning the monthly Mini-Rant thread in the Pit.

Shouldn't a mini-rant by definition be in MPSIMS?
I think a "mini-rant" just means a rant about something you don't want to do a whole frigging thread about, but definitely isn't MPSIMS stuff. Like maybe the idiot slacker at the checkout who couldn't get your change right because he was out of dimes. And you want to condemn him to hell.
  #17  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:27 AM
Captain Amazing Captain Amazing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Well, I'd like the whole "PIT a Poster" thing to go away. Few other boards allow this. Already you have restricted (to an extent) PITing of Staff. This gives an impression of special treatment. But if no poster could be personally PITed, then it'd be unambiguously fair.
I emphatically disagree. The ability to pit posters who have said something stupid or are disruptive is part of the Pit's raison d'etre. I'd much rather see a pit of somebody else for being a whackjob than another "Woman kills 20 babies" or "This Congressman is an idiot (because he said something I don't like).
  #18  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:39 AM
Kimmy_Gibbler Kimmy_Gibbler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
Outrage--personal outrage.

Not RO, where you're engaged in competitive outrage about something that doesn't affect you at all (maybe start a new "RO Game" type thread where those who like such things can have outrage one-upsmanship in a sports-like environment) but real personal pissedoffedness.

Preferably of the funny variety.

So pit threads of old like "I just spilled Kool-Aide over my new white sweater" done to (say) Dr. Seuss or "That sonofabitch cut me off in traffic! I hope he dies. In a fire!" would be fine here.

It's personal outrage that matters. It doesn't matter if the subject matter is insignificant (I cut my finger on the lid of this can of pineapples!) it's that you're honestly pissed and (if possible) express it in a funny or legitimately angry way.

Flaming is personal outrage at another poster, so it goes here too.
Personal outrage is part of it, but I would also require that it be directed against other SDMB members. As I've said elsewhere:

". . . Pit threads must be directed to other board members directly (as in "I pit Kimmy_Gibbler") or indirectly, by pitting groups known to be represented on the board (as in "I pit urban-dwelling gun control advocates"). Pittings directed to strangers to the board (as in "I pit this woman I ran into today at the medical clinic who does not belong to this board") go into MPSIMS."

I don't care if you spilled Kool-Aid on your sweater or if your landlord is a d-bag or whatever. The Pit should be a cage match, and that requires at least the possibility of an opponent. So unless the Kool-Aid is going to post back, that belongs squarely in More Pointless Shit.
  #19  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:48 AM
MeanOldLady MeanOldLady is offline
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Wait -- what? You want The Pit to be a forum dedicated specifically to board cat fights? I'm fine enough with leaving at "Please no whining about every story you see on the local news that you find to be bothersome."
  #20  
Old 08-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Kimmy_Gibbler Kimmy_Gibbler is offline
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Originally Posted by MeanOldLady View Post
Wait -- what? You want The Pit to be a forum dedicated specifically to board cat fights? I'm fine enough with leaving at "Please no whining about every story you see on the local news that you find to be bothersome."
Yes. Blood in the water. Enough of this "I pit diamond lanes" bullshit.
  #21  
Old 08-13-2009, 12:24 PM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Originally Posted by mhendo View Post
Of course, one issue with The Pit (whether it's a problem will depend on your personal perspective), is that, while it does engender some excellent debates, those can sometimes have the effect of narrowing down the thread to two or three committed debaters, and leaving everyone else feeling bored or marginalized. The result, then, is that people no longer feel that the thread is fun, and it either dies or just goes on as a relatively small conversation between a few people.

In pointing this out, i'm not pointing fingers at other people. I know for a fact that i've been the culprit on more than a few occasions in such threads, debating on and on with one or two others while everyone else abandons the thread. The question, i guess, is whether people feel that this is a bad thing, or whether it's simply unavoidable in some situations. After all, some GD threads end up the same way.
I think that's an astute observation. And you're right that it happens in GD as well as the Pit. It also happens in CS, as when two music theory nerds begin arguing over whether B# and C are the same note for all practical purposes, or when a couple of people monopolize the Big Brother thread. Hell, it probably happens in MPSIMS for all I know.

But it really doesn't bother me when that happens. It's like you say: they'll duke it out until the end, or the thread will eventually just drop out of sight. The only problem occurs when someone happens to open the thread as a kind of Johnny-come-lately, and makes a comment. And then one of the hangers-on will scream, "Don't hijack the thread. We're talking about X.". I've made the point before that just because PosterSmith and PosterJones are talking about X, doesn't mean I can't talk about Y, so long as Y is pertinent to the OP. So, no problem with the limited participation threads in the Pit. Just don't exclude people who want to join in late.
  #22  
Old 08-13-2009, 12:26 PM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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I never understood the prohibition on joke threads. Why not leave them alone? Does every Pitting have to be deadly serious and intended to offend?

My feeling is that you are over-thinking this. It's like the prohibition on saying "fuck you" as opposed to "your mother won't swallow". Does the distinction even matter?

Pit threads should be left alone unless they are stupid. A judgment call, I grant you, but the example of the late Reeder and his patented "single link and a restatement that BUSH SUX" MO should suffice.

Bottom line - the Pit is for creative insults, and debates where you call your opponent a douche nozzle. Yes, we're gonna get the usual 4-5 threads a week about how much they hate the Republican du jour, or similar bloody-mindedness, but who cares?

The other suggestion is an absolute ban on moving threads from any other forum to the Pit. If it started in any other forum and is moving towards Pit-dom, lock it down.

Too much cross-contamination of the tone of discourse otherwise. If you don't know enough to start your rant in the Pit, maybe you will learn after the fifth or sixth one is locked.

Regards,
Shodan
  #23  
Old 08-13-2009, 01:03 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I never understood the prohibition on joke threads. Why not leave them alone? Does every Pitting have to be deadly serious and intended to offend?
Were you talking about actual "joke" threads ("...so the Rabbi said "That was no mohel, that was my knife!" ) or "funny" threads?

If it's the latter, I 100% agree. If it's the former, I do think that MPSIMS is the better option.

The other point I'd like to suggest is that if we truly are getting 'better' debates in the Pit than in GD, then perhaps the GD rules need to be reconsidered--we shouldn't need two debate forums. The Pit (IMO) really shouldn't be a debate forum--it's for rants.

By the way: as of about an hour ago 17/25 Pit threads were expressly U.S. Centric-political.
  #24  
Old 08-13-2009, 01:53 PM
5que 5que is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I never understood the prohibition on joke threads. Why not leave them alone? Does every Pitting have to be deadly serious and intended to offend?
I agree with Shodan (that has got to be a first) -- I really come to the Pit for the laughs, indended or not. Colorful insults, intelligent taunts, and really stupid retorts, regardless of the subject matter. I do like the RO postings and responses. Yeah, I'm shallow. But wide.

I may be thinking way-way-back, but I always though the Pit was where you could curse like crazy, and the other boards were where you had to act a bit as if Mom were listening.
  #25  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:17 PM
Max the Immortal Max the Immortal is offline
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I think the biggest problem is that threads that could go elsewhere, don't go elsewhere. The Pit shouldn't just be "angry MPSIMS", as it sometimes seems to be. Perhaps we should also re-examine what belongs in MPSIMS. Would low-vitriol ranting and venting be out of place there? RO threads certainly seem mundane and pointless of late, and a quick skim of the MPSIMS posting guildlines doesn't reveal a prohibition against expressing anger there.

The Pit has in some ways become a ghetto in which "negative" threads are created so that the other forums can stay shiny and positive, and I don't think that it's really necessary to do that. Pissed off at your landlord/brother/etc.? Go ahead and rant about it in MPSIMS. Wanna talk smack about your least favorite movie star? It'll fit into Cafe Society. Want to lament the sad state of your life? Don't "pit" yourself, start a MPSIMS thread. Angry about a thing you saw on the news? MPSIMS again (unless you want to start a debate on the topic).

The Pit should, in my opinion, be reserved for threads that truly cannot be posted in the other forums. Beefs with other posters are the most obvious, and I believe they were the original purpose of the Pit. Bare-knuckle political debates that eschew the decorum of Great Debates would belong here (unless you want to give them their own forum). Vitriol-drenched rants that are genuinely too hot for MPSIMS (such as the previously linked rant by Euthanasiast) would fit here, but they really should elevate profanity to an art form.
  #26  
Old 08-13-2009, 02:21 PM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
Were you talking about actual "joke" threads ("...so the Rabbi said "That was no mohel, that was my knife!" ) or "funny" threads?
"Funny". Although threads about tasteless or offensive humor should be in the Pit.

But that is related to my belief that Pittings ought to be intended and taken only semi-seriously. It is "playing the dozens", or at least similar. When I point out (for instance) that you were raised and grew strong on the corn kernels your mother picked out of the feces of her customers, it isn't necessarily that I was one of the customers and witnessed this first hand. (As far as you know.)

It's just that a lot of what we do here is showing off for each other - how smart we are, how well-read we are, the perfect wisecrack, how astute we are - how large our masculine organs are in general. And that's amusing, as well as (occasionally) instructive.

Give my best to your mom.

Regards,
Shodan
  #27  
Old 08-13-2009, 04:41 PM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max the Immortal View Post
I think the biggest problem is that threads that could go elsewhere, don't go elsewhere. The Pit shouldn't just be "angry MPSIMS", as it sometimes seems to be. Perhaps we should also re-examine what belongs in MPSIMS. Would low-vitriol ranting and venting be out of place there? RO threads certainly seem mundane and pointless of late, and a quick skim of the MPSIMS posting guildlines doesn't reveal a prohibition against expressing anger there.

The Pit has in some ways become a ghetto in which "negative" threads are created so that the other forums can stay shiny and positive, and I don't think that it's really necessary to do that. Pissed off at your landlord/brother/etc.? Go ahead and rant about it in MPSIMS. Wanna talk smack about your least favorite movie star? It'll fit into Cafe Society. Want to lament the sad state of your life? Don't "pit" yourself, start a MPSIMS thread. Angry about a thing you saw on the news? MPSIMS again (unless you want to start a debate on the topic).

The Pit should, in my opinion, be reserved for threads that truly cannot be posted in the other forums. Beefs with other posters are the most obvious, and I believe they were the original purpose of the Pit. Bare-knuckle political debates that eschew the decorum of Great Debates would belong here (unless you want to give them their own forum). Vitriol-drenched rants that are genuinely too hot for MPSIMS (such as the previously linked rant by Euthanasiast) would fit here, but they really should elevate profanity to an art form.
This, emphatically.
  #28  
Old 08-13-2009, 06:17 PM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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If political debates can be posted in the Pit rather than GD because some topics just can't be hashed out without cursing, then why shouldn't a consistent rule apply to RO and personal whining threads that would otherwise have to go to MPSIMS? Maybe some people can't write about their high school reunion or Nigerian scams or pigeon eggs without cursing. If I want to start a thread about how I'm tired of these m-therf-cking snakes on this m-therf-cking plane, where do I put it?
  #29  
Old 08-13-2009, 06:33 PM
Heffalump and Roo Heffalump and Roo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
The other point I'd like to suggest is that if we truly are getting 'better' debates in the Pit than in GD, then perhaps the GD rules need to be reconsidered--we shouldn't need two debate forums. The Pit (IMO) really shouldn't be a debate forum--it's for rants.
I disagree. I think that one of the reasons that debates in the Pit can be interesting is that some of the groundwork is already set in GD. If GD threads became a brawl in each thread, they would all quickly become anti-productive. The reason that threads from GD that land up in the Pit can sometimes be so interesting is that they're generally very contentious and the part that can be productively argued about is largely done.

My vote. I would like to see these things to NOT be posted in the Pit:
-RO
-self-Pittings
-any Pitting where the OP expects sympathy or understanding (those can go in MPSIMS)
-any Pitting where the OP might be really hurt if someone posted an opposing view
-any Pitting where there's no opposing viewpoint eg. raping people is bad
-any Pitting with no outrage. . . fake outrage counts if it's convincing. Whining posts can go in MPSIMS. eg., breaking the lead on your pencil doesn't count as outrage unless you went on a rampage about it. And the rampage was funny. If the rampage was tragic, it goes in MPSIMS.


I'll also add my thanks to Gfactor for starting this thread.
  #30  
Old 08-13-2009, 06:40 PM
Heffalump and Roo Heffalump and Roo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum View Post
If I want to start a thread about how I'm tired of these m-therf-cking snakes on this m-therf-cking plane, where do I put it?
Sorry for the double post. I didn't see this until after I posted.

As far as I'm aware and Gfactor can correct me if I'm wrong, cursing is allowed in every forum of this message board. It's insulting or cursing at other members that's only allowed in the Pit. You could put the thread above in MPSIMS, as far as I know. That seems to be one of the misconceptions that clogs up the Pit with lots of stuff that doesn't belong in the Pit.
  #31  
Old 08-13-2009, 06:46 PM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo View Post
-self-Pittings
Oh good lord yes! I forgot those and that's one of Lynn's rules that I really did like. Great point.
  #32  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:14 PM
Kalypso Kalypso is offline
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I like that RO is in The Pit.

When I come to The Pit I expect to read things that will provoke a strong reaction in me. Usually this is a strong negative reaction against someone pitting, or against someone being pitted, or being outraged along with someone posting an RO thread.

When I go to MPSIMS, I expect to see puppy pictures, or personal accounts of someone's experience with something, or perhaps someone posting in need of emotional support. I don't expect to see threads containing quotes like "Daddy ate my eyes" and I don't really wish to.

I do really like that RO threads are being marked as such. That way people can read them or pass them over as they like.
  #33  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:17 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo View Post
As far as I'm aware and Gfactor can correct me if I'm wrong, cursing is allowed in every forum of this message board. It's insulting or cursing at other members that's only allowed in the Pit. You could put the thread above in MPSIMS, as far as I know. That seems to be one of the misconceptions that clogs up the Pit with lots of stuff that doesn't belong in the Pit.
It has been requested - but is NOT a rule- that profanity be kept out of thread titles.

In ATMB, the staff said that gratuitous profanity should be only in the pIT.
  #34  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:29 PM
Heffalump and Roo Heffalump and Roo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
In ATMB, the staff said that gratuitous profanity should be only in the pIT.
Thanks for the correction. But can I get a cite on that, please.

I searched on gratuitous profanity in ATMB and couldn't find anything by a mod/admin about that. I'm not doubting you, but I'd like to see the context. I don't remember this request from the staff.
  #35  
Old 08-13-2009, 07:46 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo View Post
Thanks for the correction. But can I get a cite on that, please.

I searched on gratuitous profanity in ATMB and couldn't find anything by a mod/admin about that. I'm not doubting you, but I'd like to see the context. I don't remember this request from the staff.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...ofanity&page=2

" Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven
We do find random profanity irritating, and we might change our approach if it were to start appearing frequently and everywhere, that is, in all forums. "
  #36  
Old 08-13-2009, 08:33 PM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo View Post
My vote. I would like to see these things to NOT be posted in the Pit:
-RO
-self-Pittings
-any Pitting where the OP expects sympathy or understanding (those can go in MPSIMS)
-any Pitting where the OP might be really hurt if someone posted an opposing view
-any Pitting where there's no opposing viewpoint eg. raping people is bad
-any Pitting with no outrage. . . fake outrage counts if it's convincing. Whining posts can go in MPSIMS. eg., breaking the lead on your pencil doesn't count as outrage unless you went on a rampage about it. And the rampage was funny. If the rampage was tragic, it goes in MPSIMS.
That's a really fine list. Excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalypso View Post
I like that RO is in The Pit.

When I come to The Pit I expect to read things that will provoke a strong reaction in me. Usually this is a strong negative reaction against someone pitting, or against someone being pitted, or being outraged along with someone posting an RO thread.

When I go to MPSIMS, I expect to see puppy pictures, or personal accounts of someone's experience with something, or perhaps someone posting in need of emotional support. I don't expect to see threads containing quotes like "Daddy ate my eyes" and I don't really wish to.

I do really like that RO threads are being marked as such. That way people can read them or pass them over as they like.
That's true, Kalypso. But the thing about MPSIMS is that there are also things like death notifications. I mean, that ain't puppies and ice cream. There are threads about sickness, and diseases, and people needing money, and all kinds of things. I don't know why they don't do an announcements forum (which has been suggested many times), but RO posts could be marked "RO" just as easily in MPSIMS as they could here in the Pit. And that would accomodate your objection.
  #37  
Old 08-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Eureka Eureka is offline
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Disclaimer: I am not a frequent poster in the Pit, and arguably am no longer a frequent poster elsewhere on this message board. Nor can I imagine a set of rules for the Pit which would change either of those statements.

My thoughts on what is Pit-worthy:
I like Mini-Rants threads in the Pit--It's a great opportunity to vent about egregiously annoying stuff without really expecting anyone to respond to it, and I like reading the variety of stuff which irks others. Not that I read them regularly, because they tend to irritate me more than entertain, unless I'm in the right mood.

I don't like Joke threads--in particular I don't like threads of jokes percieved as inappropriate for MPSIMS and I don't like threads supposedly "pit"ting things like avocados, nor do I like threads where people "pit" each other in the spirit of "now you are a real member of the community". Humorous writing in otherwise serious threads is OK by me.

I like an opportunity for posters to hash out grievances, or (with some reluctance on my part) for posters to pile on someone who "deserves" it and agree that that poster has a tendency to post in irritating ways.

I like similar opportunities with respect to moderators, but not when the posters become abusive.

I really like the idea that if your life sucks and you want sympathy for it, you should post in MPSIMS, and if you want to be told where you went wrong, you should post in the Pit.

I don't like Recreational Outrage threads, but see no reason they don't belong in the Pit, I just prefer that they be labeled so I can avoid them on a case by case basis.
  #38  
Old 08-13-2009, 11:44 PM
Scylla Scylla is offline
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I think the pit should be a free-fire zone.

Let's say you want to post about how much you love chocolate bunnies.

In IMHO:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: I prefer white chocolate giraffes.



In MPSIMS:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: That's so cool. Look at my kitty pictures.


In GQ:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: That's because chemicals in chocolate cause endorphins to be released, activating your pleasure center.


In Cafe Society:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies

Poster: La Chocolatier a wonderful store in Soho makes artisan quality chocolate bunnies from imported cocoa beans

In GD:

OP: I love chocolate bunnies

Poster: That's because we don't have socialized medicine and the caregivers have no stake in preventative health care. In civilized countries like Switzerland that have socialized medicine, they've been taught that chocolate is unhealthy and nobody eats it. They yodel instead. We should have socialized medicine in the US.

In the Pit

OP: I love chocolate bunnies.

Poster: Stop trolling, you moron. You think we don't see the racist agenda your propagating with your bankrupt conservative values? We all know "chocolate" is a code word for "black" and "bunnies" is short for "jungle bunnies."


***

Time was this place only had one rule. If a thread wasn't working in a particular location, after a while, it got moved or closed. The posters' placement of a thread in a particular forum kind of tells you what they're intent is. Lighten the fuck up and let it go. Why crash the groove.

Me, I feel like I need a manual to determine the proper forum. Personally, I'd just rather post everything in the pit where it's somewhat less anal about what is allowed. I can say what I want and get honest reactions.

Too many rules.

Last edited by Scylla; 08-13-2009 at 11:46 PM. Reason: Because I fucking wanted to, dipshit.
  #39  
Old 08-14-2009, 12:03 AM
Carol Stream Carol Stream is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eureka View Post
My thoughts on what is Pit-worthy:
I like Mini-Rants threads in the Pit--It's a great opportunity to vent about egregiously annoying stuff without really expecting anyone to respond to it, and I like reading the variety of stuff which irks others. Not that I read them regularly, because they tend to irritate me more than entertain, unless I'm in the right mood.
Why can't Mini-Rants live in MPSIMS? People can vent in MPSIMS. They can even swear about it. It's not Pit-worthy.
  #40  
Old 08-14-2009, 04:49 AM
bucketybuck bucketybuck is offline
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Would just like to suggest that we take into account peoples motivations in starting threads in the PIT as opposed to other forums.

Whatever the content of the OP, I think people prefer to post certain threads in the PIT because I think there is a different atmosphere/culture in the PIT.

Sure, a thread whinging about Pepsi-free may be perfectly fine in MPSIMS, but I don't want to hear the reactions of all the MPSIMS kitty-lovers lovers to my Pepsi problem, hell no, I want to hear the evil buggers in the PIT letting loose without restraint. My thread might be mundane as hell, but I dont want an award for good OP's, I just want to get some good invective going, and some honest reactions.

If we are going to start knocking threads from the PIT into other forums, please remember that the content of an OP does not make up the whole thread, and that many posters will not want GD reactions to their OP, or IMHO reactions, or GQ reactions. They enjoy the PIT, they want PIT reactions.

(This all assumes of course, that each sub-forum has a distinct culture. I believe it does)
  #41  
Old 08-14-2009, 08:11 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo
My vote. I would like to see these things to NOT be posted in the Pit:

-any Pitting where the OP might be really hurt if someone posted an opposing view
Can you explain this one a little? Or describe an example?

Regards,
Shodan
  #42  
Old 08-14-2009, 08:56 AM
Eureka Eureka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol Stream View Post
Why can't Mini-Rants live in MPSIMS? People can vent in MPSIMS. They can even swear about it. It's not Pit-worthy.
I don't know that it can't. But I REALLY don't understand why so many people think that Mini-Rants SHOULD live in MPSIMS. From my perspective Mini-Rants have had a long happy life in the Pit and should get to keep that.

But mine is not the (only) vote that counts.
  #43  
Old 08-14-2009, 09:13 AM
Fenris Fenris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Can you explain this one a little? Or describe an example?
I pit the fucker who raped my daughter yesterday.*

That's an MPSIMS topic, no matter how heated it is. There's no possible opposition to that topic that wouldn't be incredibly hurtful or dickish.



*Hypothetical. I am daughter-free.
  #44  
Old 08-14-2009, 09:27 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
I pit the fucker who raped my daughter yesterday.*

That's an MPSIMS topic, no matter how heated it is. There's no possible opposition to that topic that wouldn't be incredibly hurtful or dickish.
OK, I think I see what you mean. And yes, that belongs in MPSIMS. With the caveat that one reveals personal information on the boards at one's own risk. I.e., if you say "I Pit my daughter's rapist and I hope he gets ass-raped in prison" it is legitimate to say "I got ass-raped and I don't think you should wish that on anyone". Or even "it's all Bush's fault".
Quote:
*Hypothetical. I am daughter-free.
You are to be both envied and pitied.

Regards,
Shodan
  #45  
Old 08-14-2009, 11:12 PM
Carol Stream Carol Stream is offline
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Not Pit-Worthy:

RO

MPSIMS crap in the Pit. If the subject of the OP is mundane, it belongs in MPSIMS, even if you add a big bad swear word at the end, or even throughout. Real examples of stuff that should never be in the Pit: I Pit my sandwich, I Pit my cat, I Pit myself. This includes posters who are self-aware enough to realize that their OP is "lame" or "weak" right there in the thread title, but post it in the Pit anyway.

Buckeyes are Ok.

Mini-rants. They are always lame, weak, and mundane. While I see the benefit of having a Mini-Rant thread to confine it to one thread people don't have to click on, I think it leads new (and, often, not so new) posters to think that lame, weak, and mundane is Pitworthy to start with. It's not.
  #46  
Old 08-15-2009, 02:28 AM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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Note that many political threads in the Pit are RO (and just aren't labeled as such). Where should they be put?
  #47  
Old 08-15-2009, 07:21 AM
Martini Enfield Martini Enfield is offline
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Like Fenris, I'd like to see all Politics out of The Pit, except in Very limited circumstances of a genuine and serious event of National or International interest.

For example, if the Canadian Government decided that everyone in Canada had to speak English or GTFO, no exceptions, then I think a Pit Thread would be warranted. Similarly, if the UK Government decided that it would no longer offer Asylum to anyone not from the Commonwealth, I think that would also warrant a Pit Thread.

But the State Legislature of Iowa debates a motion to build an expensive bridge across a river when the state's libraries are underfunded? Not pit-worthy.

Similarly, I think RO needs to go. No-one is seriously going to support the skinning of puppies for fur, or any of the other things that get RO posts here.

Mini-Rants are quite fun, though- I like those. Also, I think being able to call another Poster out on an issue is important, but if it's clear the other poster isn't going to respond, then I think they should be closed so it doesn't turn into Everybody Hates Poster X.

Oh, also, I think that if someone wants to describe someone else as a "Cunt" in the Pit, then that should be fine and it should be taken as read that entering in the Pit means you're going to hear lots of Naughty Words and Mean Things Being Said.
  #48  
Old 08-15-2009, 07:44 AM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini Enfield View Post
Oh, also, I think that if someone wants to describe someone else as a "Cunt" in the Pit, then that should be fine and it should be taken as read that entering in the Pit means you're going to hear lots of Naughty Words and Mean Things Being Said.
Yes. Unfortunately, the Stupid Rules have now been established, and Ed is unlikely to back down for fear of ... I don't know what. Being seen as reasonable, maybe?
  #49  
Old 08-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Gfactor Gfactor is offline
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I've been waiting until I had time to put a TLDR post together, but I'm not sure when that will happen, and so far this thread has been doing very well without me, so I think I'll just add a few things here and there as time allows. First up: the "origin" of the Pit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TubaDiva
Remember all those times we said, "hey, why don't you take that outside?" Well, here's where you go. <g>

No, really. This is where you go for all those verbal fistfights. When a thread veers from debate and/or discussion into personal attack, sneering insults, and "Yo Mommas," y'all should step outside to this thread.

Remember, although AOL's Terms of Service do not usually apply and we will give you SOME latitude, this is no back alley and you will be expected to be if not civil at least semi-reasonable. Pure evil and/or rants won't fly -- unless they're really entertaining.

Oh, and give me five minutes to sell some tickets, okay?
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...ead.php?t=1458

While the original description of the Pit doesn't set its current uses or purposes in stone, I think the post anticipates many of the issues we're still discussing:

1. Pit as combat. Mainly for "verbal fistfights."
2. Pit as entertainment. "Selling tickets" "Pure evil and rants only if really entertaining."
3. Rules relaxed.

This third feature is significant to me. While I have no problem moving a thread from GQ to GD or one of the other non-Pit forums, moving a thread out of the Pit changes the rules. That can cause problems if the insults have already started to fly and it also can change the shape of the discourse. For one thing, the Pit has very loose relevancy standards. Not only do we permit personal attacks, but we permit them against anybody who happens to show up--even if they aren't throwing any. It's a lot like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwirWWnzJKM

This seems to be the paradigmatic Pit discourse arc. But other variations are also pretty common:

We've got the backfired ambush: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imuck...om=PL&index=14

And the duel that didn't go as expected: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs

And sometimes we get diatribes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKHKOh9pi5k

This last one raises some questions for me. It's one sided, but it's definitely a rant: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rant

Is it RO? What about this one? The Telemarketer Speaks. I Respond.

What about this one? Tampons Suck

At any rate, before I got distracted by the clip show I intended to point out:

1. Moving a thread out of here changes the way it will develop, so predictions about how it might unfold are to some extent self-fulfilling.

2. While some profanity is permitted in other forums, there's more tolerance for it in the Pit.

3. Other elements of the Pit aren't mirrored in other forums.

4. There are some threads that the other moderators don't want in their forums. Those have to be closed instead of moved.

5. To some extent the whole point of the board is to have threads and have them where they'll get the most attention and participation.

6. None of these points necessarily changes anything about what sorts of threads we ought to have in here. I'm just sayin'.

Please keep the comments coming.
  #50  
Old 08-15-2009, 11:36 AM
Gfactor Gfactor is offline
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Humor in the Pit is another recurring theme in this thread. The consensus seems to be that parody and satire are fine here. I agree with that. I've allowed several parody threads. I also agree that "joke" threads typically belong elsewhere.
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