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  #1  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:44 PM
Qin Shi Huangdi is offline
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Vegetarians Are Intolerant Jerks [Moved from BBQ Pit]


At least the vegetarians and animal rights folks over here: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/:

Quote:
You have been banned for the following reason:
not vegetarian

Date the ban will be lifted: Never
I was banned just for not being vegetarian. I couldn't even attempt to debate them. At least the commies at RevLeft restricted me not ban me outright.

Last edited by tomndebb; 08-30-2009 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Note that thread originated in the BBQ Pit but is now in Great Debates.
  #2  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:46 PM
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Some places are not for debate, but for like-minded people to gather together. The front page of the board, the page you linked to, says:
Quote:
Please keep in mind, this is not just a vegetarian forum, this is a forum for vegetarians. In order to join you must either be a vegetarian or seriously considering going vegetarian.
You knew their rule going in, why are you surprised?
  #3  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Some places are not for debate, but for like-minded people to gather together. The front page of the board, the page you linked to, says:You knew their rule going in, why are you surprised?
My objection to the rule was my point. They refuse to allow in people who having differing views or even non-vegetarians who like vegetarian dishes.
  #4  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:48 PM
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I've never heard of that site before, but are there rules about who can join? Is ther, for example, a line on the main page saying something like:

"Please keep in mind, this is not just a vegetarian forum, this is a forum for vegetarians. In order to join you must either be a vegetarian or seriously considering going vegetarian."

And, did you drop into a thread just to say you weren't vegetarian and see how they'd react?
  #5  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:49 PM
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Whatever.

The very front page of their forum says:
Quote:
Please keep in mind, this is not just a vegetarian forum, this is a forum for vegetarians. In order to join you must either be a vegetarian or seriously considering going vegetarian.
Personally, i think it's sort of a silly rule, but it's their forum and they make very clear what the conditions are.

It could be that they're simply not interested in debating their vegetarianism with people who are intent on talking them out of it, or who want to question their choices.
  #6  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis LeMay View Post
My objection to the rule was my point. They refuse to allow in people who having differing views or even non-vegetarians who like vegetarian dishes.
Sucks to be you, then. They state their rules up front and clearly. Go find a more inclusive veggie board.

ETA: Oh, and if you try to turn this into some flag-wrapping free speech bullshit, the laughter will be deafening.

Last edited by Bosstone; 08-27-2009 at 05:50 PM.
  #7  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:51 PM
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Okay. Well. If you just like vegetarian dishes, then lie about it. They don't need to know you're not vegetarian. Or, if you can't lie, at least don't mention that you aren't.

If you went there trying to debate, despite the fact that that's not the purpose of the board, you're being a jerk. They are not obligated to allow you to do so. And, honestly, it sounds like you were trying to stir shit up.

Last edited by Angel of the Lord; 08-27-2009 at 05:52 PM. Reason: baord != board
  #8  
Old 08-27-2009, 05:54 PM
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ETA: Oh, and if you try to turn this into some flag-wrapping free speech bullshit, the laughter will be deafening.
KAYFABE!


I happen to enjoy that part.
  #9  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:01 PM
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I can't believe nobody has pointed out this line from the front page to the OP:

Quote:
Please keep in mind, this is not just a vegetarian forum, this is a forum for vegetarians. In order to join you must either be a vegetarian or seriously considering going vegetarian.
  #10  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Curtis LeMay View Post
My objection to the rule was my point. They refuse to allow in people who having differing views or even non-vegetarians who like vegetarian dishes.
Dude - not pitworthy. It's not like veggieboards.com=Augusta Country Club.

They told you upfront by way of their membership policy: they don't want folks pissing in their sandbox. Then you stood right up and said: "But what if I really wanna piss in your sandbox?" And you're shocked that they kicked you out of the sandbox?

It's like this: I'm an atheist, but I'm not going to go to catholics-only-if-you-arent-catholic-please-dont-join.com and try to debate the finer points of their membership policies.
  #11  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:02 PM
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They do have an exception: You can post as long as you're playing Rio, by Duran Duran.
  #12  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:03 PM
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I agree that they probably just want a place for loving and togetherness without worrying about getting bombarded with antagonism. Imagine if you went to a Local Republicans Club meeting or something, and in the midst of sharing stories about how everyone has made a poor person suffer today, in storms some unwashed hippie yelling about totalitarianism or the bill of rights or some nonsense.

Not that every vegetarian should be immune from defending his stupid beliefs, but a group of people should be able to meet and discus how meat causes cancer in peace. Unless it's a hate or intolerance group or something, then they should be burned alive without inquiry.
  #13  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:57 PM
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I agree that they probably just want a place for loving and togetherness without worrying about getting bombarded with antagonism. Imagine if you went to a Local Republicans Club meeting or something, and in the midst of sharing stories about how everyone has made a poor person suffer today, in storms some unwashed hippie yelling about totalitarianism or the bill of rights or some nonsense.

Not that every vegetarian should be immune from defending his stupid beliefs, but a group of people should be able to meet and discus how meat causes cancer in peace. Unless it's a hate or intolerance group or something, then they should be burned alive without inquiry.
Totally made of win.
  #14  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Angel of the Lord View Post
Okay. Well. If you just like vegetarian dishes, then lie about it. They don't need to know you're not vegetarian. Or, if you can't lie, at least don't mention that you aren't...
Oh, I see, you're advocating a "don't ask, don't tell" policy? Intolerant bastard.
  #15  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:28 PM
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I couldn't even attempt to debate them.
Aw, you didn't even get to use that real zinger about "People Eating Tasty Animals."
  #16  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:46 PM
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Some groups are open forums for discussion and debate.

Some groups exist to provide support and community.

Neither of these is a bad approach.

I guess I don't see why there should even be antagonism about which one a group decides they want to be. If you want a debate, go find your self a debate forum. They're not that hard to find.
  #17  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:53 PM
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I agree with everything everyone wrote here. I guess people often forget that the SDMB is a closed forum too, but the criteria is a little different: "You must be an anti-social asshole." It's in the fine print.
  #18  
Old 08-27-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
They do have an exception: You can post as long as you're playing Rio, by Duran Duran.
But your posting privileges only last for twenty minutes (and you must post deep thoughts).



I think he was straying in from his Anti-Choice thread in order to take up a discussion about animal v. fetus rights. Maybe to troll, maybe to learn and explore ideas -- both are equally possible.

And yes I am self centered enough to believe it was my post that had such a profound impact.
  #19  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:01 PM
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And yes I am self centered enough to believe it was my post that had such a profound impact.
Nah. It was over when I went all Dr. Seuss on his ass.
  #20  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:07 PM
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Wow, a group of like minded people want to be left alone to socialize. I imagine it's a new concept that they don't have to let you in if they don't like you or want to. Other than to antagonize the group about why they should eat meat, what purpose is there to posting there.
  #21  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:27 PM
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Dude - not pitworthy. It's not like veggieboards.com=Augusta Country Club.
I think you're confused.....





Link
  #22  
Old 08-27-2009, 08:49 PM
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My objection to the rule was my point. They refuse to allow in people who having differing views or even non-vegetarians who like vegetarian dishes.
So?
  #23  
Old 08-27-2009, 10:34 PM
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I think you're confused.....





Link
I stand corrected - I meant Augusta National Golf Club, of course, notorious for their refusal to admit black members until 1990.
  #24  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:07 PM
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If I ran a forum called "General Sports Discussion" and you came in and posted "I hate the Red Sox! Go Yankees!" I'd allow it. But if I had a forum "All Things Red Sox" and you made the same post I'd ban you immediately.

Last edited by Larry Borgia; 08-27-2009 at 11:07 PM.
  #25  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:08 PM
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I agree with everything everyone wrote here. I guess people often forget that the SDMB is a closed forum too, but the criteria is a little different: "You must be an anti-social asshole." It's in the fine print.
And here you are.
  #26  
Old 08-27-2009, 11:47 PM
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You weren't by any chance posting THIS?
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:55 PM
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Trouble is, they're right. I've known it for about forty years now, and still can't get to it. If only vegetables didn't taste so much like plants...

But I'm wrong, and I know it. By just about any reasonable measure, the vegies have got it right. So why shouldn't they be smug about it, they're fucking right!

Caveat: Not quite sure about raising kids that way. Known a lot of vegetarian raised kids, just as healthy as any other, but seems to me to be a mite thin. I lean towards letting vegetarianism be an adult choice, but recognize that as a practical matter, thats just not sensible, esp for a household of limited means.

Still, they're right and I'm wrong.
  #28  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:07 AM
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I tried it for a while. I tried vegetariaism, veganism, macrobiotocs. None of took. The problem is that the food sucks. Plus, I think it's kind of a fraudulent lifestyle at the end of the day. It's not a natural diet for humans (people should eat LESS meat than most Americans do, but it's not natural to eat NO meat), and from an ethical standpoint, it's futile. Farming crops still kills animals by the dumpster full, so you might as well eat some cow or pig and actually enjoy your life instead of nibbling on spinach leaves and always being hungry.

I also think a lot of them do it as some kind of fashion statement, like other people are going to be impressed by their ethical standards. No one is ever impressed. Just so you know.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:31 AM
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I think it's bullshit.

I'm not a vegetarian for a good reason- I live in a place where it is pretty much impossible. Even if I worked at only eating vegetarian dishes, there would still be meat stock, etc. and there is nothing I can do about that. Additionally, I live in a strong "banquet" culture where I'm often invited to eat and to reject the food given to me would be a grave insult to my hosts.

But I was a vegetarian for ten years and still eat vegetarian in my own house. If they want to judge me, I guess that's their choice. But it makes them intolerant jerks.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:48 AM
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By just about any reasonable measure, the vegies have got it right.
Such as?
  #31  
Old 08-28-2009, 12:48 AM
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I think it's bullshit.

I'm not a vegetarian for a good reason- I live in a place where it is pretty much impossible. Even if I worked at only eating vegetarian dishes, there would still be meat stock, etc. and there is nothing I can do about that. Additionally, I live in a strong "banquet" culture where I'm often invited to eat and to reject the food given to me would be a grave insult to my hosts.

But I was a vegetarian for ten years and still eat vegetarian in my own house. If they want to judge me, I guess that's their choice. But it makes them intolerant jerks.
But, in this case, the vegetarians in question (those running veggieboards.com) aren't judging the OP for not being a vegetarian. They are judging him (by way of banning) for acting like a douche and sidestepping their membership policy. There's a difference.

Can vegetarians be judgy? Sure, I guess, but so can members of any group.

And I've met my fair share of veggies who have no problem with my dietary habits. Hell, my best friend is vegetarian, and cooks his Boca Burgers on our beef-char-covered grill. And then pretends it doesn't make his bland-patties taste waaayy better.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
I tried it for a while. I tried vegetariaism, veganism, macrobiotocs. None of took. The problem is that the food sucks. Plus, I think it's kind of a fraudulent lifestyle at the end of the day. It's not a natural diet for humans (people should eat LESS meat than most Americans do, but it's not natural to eat NO meat), and from an ethical standpoint, it's futile. Farming crops still kills animals by the dumpster full, so you might as well eat some cow or pig and actually enjoy your life instead of nibbling on spinach leaves and always being hungry.

I also think a lot of them do it as some kind of fashion statement, like other people are going to be impressed by their ethical standards. No one is ever impressed. Just so you know.
You're such a fucking asshole sometimes. Go fuck yourself.
  #33  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:05 AM
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My brother and his wife are vegans. I deal with it.

Except, they both cheat when they know the other wont find out. If they'd get into some kind of amnesty program, they'd probably be back on the meatwagon with the rest of us humans.

As a side note, I'd pay a reasonable amount of money to watch an American vegan try to explain why they're a vegan to a starving African kid. Alternatively, for the right amount of money I'd simulate that conversation myself.
  #34  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:06 AM
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If you want a debate, go find your self a debate forum. They're not that hard to find.
At least these vegetarians are up front about rooting out those who stalk the forum and don't want to leaf voluntarily.

If you want to beet them, you can't join them.
  #35  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:07 AM
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At least these vegetarians are up front about rooting out those who stalk the forum and don't want to leaf voluntarily.

If you want to beet them, you can't join them.
That was pretty corny.
  #36  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii
At least these vegetarians are up front about rooting out those who stalk the forum and don't want to leaf voluntarily.

If you want to beet them, you can't join them.
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Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
That was pretty corny.
Yeah, what a ham.

Wait. . . what?
  #37  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:24 AM
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As a side note, I'd pay a reasonable amount of money to watch an American vegan try to explain why they're a vegan to a starving African kid. Alternatively, for the right amount of money I'd simulate that conversation myself.
This is the sort of retarded logic that people dredge up when they're desperate to do anything they possibly can do discredit vegetarianism.

Most vegetarians i know, including me, are well aware that, to a considerable extent, the dietary choices we make are a luxury that comes from leading relatively comfortable lives in a modern industrialized society. Whether one is a vegetarian for ethical or health reasons, or some combination of those, the fact is that the ability to make a choice generally presupposes a certain minimum level of economic wherewithal.

But the fact that a starving African kid might have trouble comprehending the rationale behind American vegetarianism does not make vegetarianism (or veganism, or whatever) an irrational or stupid choice. That same African kid would probably wonder why some people spend $400 on a cellphone, or $150 on a tie. What the fuck does any of that prove, except that some of us are more fortunate than others in the choices we are able to make?

The interesting thing is that, despite the title of this thread, i find it's far more common to find meat-eaters who deride vegetarians for their dietary choices than the other way around.

You want to eat meat? Fine, go ahead. I really, truly don't give a fuck. My wife's not a vegetarian, and i've never tried to convince her to become one. I've cooked meat for her before, and will do it again. I also don't consider myself ethically superior to people who eat meat. Despite Diogenes's retarded blatherings, i don't do it for anyone except myself.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:28 AM
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I didn't insult you, dude. What is your problem?
  #39  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:29 AM
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I'm not real interested in your victim politics. I didn't say it was a good argument, I said it would be fun to watch. Like it would be fun to watch someone try to explain to a cow why we wear shoes made of his skin.
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Old 08-28-2009, 01:34 AM
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The crowd over there can be pretty dense at times. Most of the educated people bailed a couple of years ago, leaving mostly teenagers and forty-year-old tree huggers. A few months ago somebody asked whether eating fish should be considered ethically separate from eating the flesh of mammals, since fish have no cerebral cortex and are neurologically not much more sophisticated than a swimming Venus Flytrap. Itís a perfectly valid question, and one that almost inevitably comes up during any intelligent conversation on vegetarianism, on the Internet or off. Although the person received a couple of reasoned responses, most of the replies consisted of anthropomorphic nonsense such as ďfish are intelligent animals who go to schools and have mommies and daddies who love them.Ē Iím not making that up; one girl actually said that. However, donít assume that they are all pompous, self-righteous AR elitists. There were a few in the past, but they left because the board wasnít hardcore enough for them. Diana is about as close as anybody on the board gets to fitting that description, but even she tempers her opinions to some extent when the subject of peaceful coexistence with the carnivores comes up.

Someday when I get time and money (as if Iím ever going to have both simultaneously) Iím going to start a board for people who practice veg*nism for scientific reasons as opposed to ethical ones, as there isnít a single forum anywhere devoted to that subject. Iíll let you know if and when that happens. Until then, well, the rules were clearly stated, and the mods there are notably uptight about it. The only discussions that are permitted concerning meat consumption are those that come from people who are seeking to reduce or eliminate their consumption and need advice on how to go about doing it. Donít sweat it; youíre probably not IP blocked, and even if you are, just unplug your modem for a minute and reregister under another user name. I wasnít a strict vegetarian when I first started posting there, but I just kept my mouth shut and didnít advertise the fact. Next time show a little restraint and decorum, OK?
  #41  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
I didn't insult you, dude. What is your problem?
Not just an asshole, but a disingenuous one too. Like i said, go fuck yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
I'm not real interested in your victim politics.
I have no victim politics. I simply made an observation that meat-eaters are just as likely as vegetarians to be intolerant of other people's dietary choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
I didn't say it was a good argument, I said it would be fun to watch.
Yeah, sure, that's all you meant. If it is, you're either retarded or a troll.
  #42  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:38 AM
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Someday when I get time and money (as if Iím ever going to have both simultaneously) Iím going to start a board for people who practice veg*nism for scientific reasons as opposed to ethical ones, as there isnít a single forum anywhere devoted to that subject.
Can you explain what you mean here?

I've heard plenty of ethical arguments regarding vegetarianism that have a scientific basis, and scientific arguments that still have an ethical component. Can you really separate them so neatly?
  #43  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:39 AM
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Jesus, dude. Lack of proper nutrition is making you loopy. Have a fucking cheeseburger, son.
  #44  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:40 AM
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....I said it would be fun to watch. Like it would be fun to watch someone try to explain to a cow why we wear shoes made of his skin.
What a whimsical sense of fun you have.

Last edited by elucidator; 08-28-2009 at 01:41 AM.
  #45  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:46 AM
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If it is, you're either retarded or a troll.
Heh.

Calling people retarded, assholes, fucking assholes, and disingenuous assholes is not a great way to launch a campaign calling someone a troll.

Lets look at how your brain works..

To this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
I tried it for a while. I tried vegetariaism, veganism, macrobiotocs. None of took. The problem is that the food sucks. Plus, I think it's kind of a fraudulent lifestyle at the end of the day. It's not a natural diet for humans (people should eat LESS meat than most Americans do, but it's not natural to eat NO meat), and from an ethical standpoint, it's futile. Farming crops still kills animals by the dumpster full, so you might as well eat some cow or pig and actually enjoy your life instead of nibbling on spinach leaves and always being hungry.

I also think a lot of them do it as some kind of fashion statement, like other people are going to be impressed by their ethical standards. No one is ever impressed. Just so you know.
You posted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhendo View Post
You're such a fucking asshole sometimes. Go fuck yourself.
To be honest, the first time I read that, I thought you were joking. Why? Because there's nothing in the quoted post that warrants either a classification as asshole or a request to fuck ones self. The most possibly "offensive" content of that post is, "I also think a lot of them do it as some kind of fashion statement, like other people are going to be impressed by their ethical standards. No one is ever impressed," which isn't directed at you, and is pretty benign.

It seems your problem is more with the fact that he dared speak words against vegetarianism, which you took as a personal attack. Perhaps this is because vegetarianism or veganism (or whatever your ism is) is the only thing that defines you.

Get a grip, a life, and a clue. In any order.
  #46  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:49 AM
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This is the sort of retarded logic that people dredge up when they're desperate to do anything they possibly can do discredit vegetarianism.

Most vegetarians i know, including me, are well aware that, to a considerable extent, the dietary choices we make are a luxury that comes from leading relatively comfortable lives in a modern industrialized society. Whether one is a vegetarian for ethical or health reasons, or some combination of those, the fact is that the ability to make a choice generally presupposes a certain minimum level of economic wherewithal.

But the fact that a starving African kid might have trouble comprehending the rationale behind American vegetarianism does not make vegetarianism (or veganism, or whatever) an irrational or stupid choice. That same African kid would probably wonder why some people spend $400 on a cellphone, or $150 on a tie. What the fuck does any of that prove, except that some of us are more fortunate than others in the choices we are able to make?

The interesting thing is that, despite the title of this thread, i find it's far more common to find meat-eaters who deride vegetarians for their dietary choices than the other way around.

You want to eat meat? Fine, go ahead. I really, truly don't give a fuck. My wife's not a vegetarian, and i've never tried to convince her to become one. I've cooked meat for her before, and will do it again. I also don't consider myself ethically superior to people who eat meat. Despite Diogenes's retarded blatherings, i don't do it for anyone except myself.
Actually, spending $150 on a tie is an irrational and stupid choice.
  #47  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:56 AM
mhendo is offline
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Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
To be honest, the first time I read that, I thought you were joking. Why? Because there's nothing in the quoted post that warrants either a classification as asshole or a request to fuck ones self. The most possibly "offensive" content of that post is, "I also think a lot of them do it as some kind of fashion statement, like other people are going to be impressed by their ethical standards. No one is ever impressed," which isn't directed at you, and is pretty benign.
Really? That's the only possibly offensive content? Not the description of vegetarianism as a "fraudulent lifestyle" (which must, perforce, mean that its adherents are frauds also)? Then there was the whole suggestion that vegetarians don't enjoy their lives, and that this would change if they would just eat meat, again implying that the choice is one that people take for no reason other than self-aggrandizing posturing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
It seems your problem is more with the fact that he dared speak words against vegetarianism, which you took as a personal attack. Perhaps this is because vegetarianism or veganism (or whatever your ism is) is the only thing that defines you.
If someone wants to offer a rational critique of vegetarianism, i'm happy to engage with it. There are plenty of good reasons to eat meat, not least of which is that it's damn tasty. But when people offer nothing but ignorant put-downs, i'll respond accordingly.

As for my vegetarianism defining me: it doesn't. I don't even think about it until it's time to shop for food or prepare a meal. As i said, i don't care what other people eat, and i attach no special status or moral standing to being a vegetarian. It's just something that is one small part of who i am, like playing softball, reading history, supporting the right to abortion, and believing in universal healthcare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
Get a grip, a life, and a clue. In any order.
Eat my shit.
  #48  
Old 08-28-2009, 01:59 AM
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Would allergic reaction or other digestion problems be considered scientific reasons? I've heard that some people's bodies cannot process meat.

ETA: mehendo's vegetarian? I guess that doesn't define him as I don't recall reading any posts from him (her?) to that effect.

Last edited by Monty; 08-28-2009 at 02:01 AM.
  #49  
Old 08-28-2009, 02:00 AM
wierdaaron is offline
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Originally Posted by mhendo View Post
Eat my shit.
But then how would I get protein?
  #50  
Old 08-28-2009, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
I tried it for a while. I tried vegetariaism, veganism, macrobiotocs. None of took. The problem is that the food sucks.
I think this is the problem with Westerners who want to become vegetarians. From what I see from my Indian co-workers, the food is quite good: large variety and great taste. Of course, they've had centuries to develop and perfect their vegetarian diet. Maybe in a couple of centuries the Western vegetarian diet will be great and will not just try to imitate the meat versions of dishes (like tofu/veggie burgers, etc)
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